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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 23, 2007 16:58:49 GMT -5
FREE WILL & CONSCIENCE Necessary Conditions of Moral Accountability By Jesse Morrell
This is a theological treatise on the required conditions of moral accountability or the prerequisites of moral agency, along with their necessary connection to the extent of moral obligation and the proper measure of moral guilt.
DEFINITIONS OF KEY WORDS USED, AS MEANT IN THIS TREATISE
Accountability [account-ability]: Synonymous with liable; the giving of account for the usage a moral agent has made of their moral ability; being accountable according to moral ability, conditioned by knowledge of moral obligation.
Responsibility [response-able]: Synonymous with moral obligation and requirement; that which a moral agent ought to voluntarily select, which an intelligent free moral agent will be accountable for and judged by; the affirmation of the intelligence or the demands of the conscience according to the perceived value of an object which necessitates the requirement of the committal of the will.
Moral Agent: An individual subjected to moral law or moral government; one subjected to moral obligation and moral accountability, upon condition of intelligence and free will, thereby capable of virtue, vice, blameworthiness, and praiseworthiness.
Free-Will: Relating to contingency and to possibility [possible-ability]; synonymous with capable, able, and ability; the freedom of the will to choose between one volition and its opposite; the power of contrary choice; the potency to will one ultimate end with its necessary means or to will its opposite; the ability of voluntary choice without coercion; a faculty operating under the law of liberty as opposed to the law of necessity or force; to have the option of willing or nilling, receiving or rejecting; a requisite quality, condition, or attribute of personality for moral agency, without which moral agency is rendered nonexistent and impossible, and moral accountability as unjust and unreasonable.
Unable/Inability: Relating to impossibility [impossible for ability] or a nonfunctional faculty in connection to the slavery of the will; synonymous with incapable; forced to choose an object or direction, without the option of rejecting it, or without the option of choosing its opposite; without power or capability to properly perform.
Knowledge: The reasonable perception of the mind; the affirmation of the intelligence; when morally speaking, pertaining to the idea of what is ethically right and ethically wrong as intuitive to the reason or declared by the conscience; relating to intelligence as a requisite quality or attribute of personality for moral agency, without which moral agency is rendered nonexistent and impossible, and moral accountability as unjust and unreasonable.
Prerequisite: Synonymous with precondition; a preceding or prior condition, requirement, or requisition demanded by logical or natural necessity for a proper function; without which the result would be improper, unjust, impossible, or illogical.
Moral Character: Synonymous with moral action or moral conduct; the moral quality of a moral agent, derived from the continual, voluntary choices of the will; the overall analysis of a moral agent’s moral conduct or moral state; not to be confounded or confused with constitution or capacities.
The freedom of the will and the knowledge of its proper use are prerequisites to moral responsibility and moral accountability; ability and knowledge are necessary preconditions of moral agency, being the proper boundaries and limitations of moral responsibility and moral accountability.
1.MORAL ABILITY: a Necessary Prerequisite to Moral Accountability
MAN’S MORAL ABILITY AND ITS RELATION TO THE MORAL LAW
Natural ability and free-will are synonymous terms, being identical in nature. Inability and free-will are antonymous terms, being contrary in nature. Ability is the power of contrary choice; free will is the power of contrary choice. A man is able to do only what a man is free to do; and a man is free to do only what a man is able to do. Freedom speaks of the contingent not the necessitated, of that which was voluntarily chosen under liberty and not that forced by necessity. A free-will choice is a choice which did not have to be chosen, but was voluntarily chosen when the opposite choice could have been selected.
To be responsible or obligated to do better, and to be accountable or judged for failure to do better, one must be capable of doing better. To be capable of doing better, one must be free or able to do better. What a man is free to do, a man is capable or able of doing. If a man is not capable then a man is not able or free. And if a man is not a free agent, then he is a necessitated agent. But moral character relates to the voluntary choices commanded or condemned by the God given intelligence/conscience. A man is responsible only for that which is voluntary. Therefore what a man is accountable for, he must not have been necessitated to do, but must have voluntarily committed.
Respecting the Moral Government of God (Isaiah 9:6-7), or the ruling and reigning of God in the realm of morality over moral agents (Luke 17:21), the moral commandments of God never exceed the moral ability of men. The commands of God are directed to the ability of man, being instructions as to how a man is to use the liberty of his will or how a man is to properly use his ability. Since God’s moral commandments are directions for man’s moral ability, since God’s moral government is the governing of man’s moral agency, God’s moral commandments never can, never do, nor ever will exceed man’s moral ability, never exceeding man’s moral agency.
The moral law that is in God’s Moral Government is: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind” (Matt 22:37) and “love they neighbor as thyself” (Matt 22:39). The moral law of God in essence is the law of love, love being the total and complete fulfillment of the whole of the law. (Rom 13:8, Rom 13:10, Gal 5:14, Jas 2:8)
The law of love is commanded as opposed to the law of selfishness which is condemned. Love is not an emotion or a feeling, but a voluntary, impartial committal of the will towards the well-being of all. Love is synonymous with “good will” (Luke 2:14, Ephesians 6:7, Philippians 1:15) or is the same as benevolence. If it is truly love, it must of necessity manifest itself into action and conduct whenever possible and whenever necessary, performing the required means to secure the end of the well-being of others.
Love, good will, or benevolence satisfies the whole of the law (Rom 13:8, Rom 13:10, Gal 5:14, Jas 2:8), but selfishness or self-centeredness is a total and complete violation of the whole of the law (James 2:10). To break one letter of the law is to break the whole spirit of the law; the spirit of the law which the entire letter of the law is derived from. The letter of the law is derived from the spirit of the law; therefore to break one letter of the law is to break the whole spirit of the law. He that breaks the one breaks the whole. Therefore, to “offend in one point” is to be “guilty of all”. (James 2:10)
God does not command that we love Him with faculties that we do not possess, but rather that we love Him with all that we currently possess, “with all thy”, as opposed to that which isn’t currently yours. The commandments of God are not impossible, commanding us to love Him with a heart, soul, and mind that we do not have; but rather the law of God is able to be kept, commanding that we love Him with all of what we do have, with all that we are capable, to the best of our ability. The law is able to be kept because we are capable and we are capable because the law is able to be kept. The command of God is that we love to the best of our ability, and therefore the law is as able to be kept as our ability is capable, no further and no less. What our ability is capable of is all that the law of God commands, no more and no less. The law of God is the law of our ability, to love Him supremely and our neighbor equally, according to our ability, with all of our ability.
God commands “thy heart” and “thy soul” and “thy mind”. The command of God is directed towards our current faculties and it does not exceed the limits of those faculties. We are to love him with “all” of these faculties, but not with less or with more then those faculties are capable of. Man is not responsible for more then he can perform, and so a man is not accountable for more then he can perform. Man’s moral responsibility is all of man’s moral ability, and so man’s moral accountability will not exceed man’s moral ability. Man’s moral ability is naturally and obviously limited by moral possibilities; therefore God’s moral commandments never require moral impossibilities, for that which is morally impossible cannot be morally commanded. Morally demanding a moral impossibility is a contradiction in terms.
“God does not demand impossibilities.” Augustine *1 “The law of God requires nothing more of any human being, than that which he is at present naturally able to perform, under the present circumstances of his being.” Charles G. Finney *2
The extent of God’s commandments is the extent of man’s ability, and the extent of man’s ability is the extent of God’s commandments, each one establishes and determines the limitations and boundaries of the other. And since man will be judged by the commandments, the extent of man’s accountability will be the extent of man’s ability. A man will not be accountable for that in which he was not capable of, he will not be judged for that which was outside of the realm of his control.
The law of God is therefore the law of our ability, to love Him supremely and our neighbor equally, according to our ability, with all of our ability, no more and no less. There is then no commandment in which a sinner can hide behind as an excuse, no commandment that a sinner can point to as tyrannical, since all the commandments of God are able to be kept, from the lowest to the greatest. All sin is therefore inexcusable since all sin is always avoidable; sin, that brings moral guilt, is always voluntary.
What is unavoidable is excusable; but what is inexcusable must be avoidable. What is punishable must be voluntary, and what is voluntary must be avoidable. What is punishable must be vice, and what is vice must be voluntary. So the punishment of sin only comes upon sin that was voluntary and avoidable, therefore sin that is punished is sin that is inexcusable.
“Moral agency implies the possession of free-will. By free-will it is intended the power of choosing or refusing to choose, in every instance, in compliance with moral obligation. Free-will implies the power of originating and deciding our own choices, and of exercising our own liberty, in every instance of choice upon every moral questions, of deciding or choosing in conformity with duty or otherwise in all cases of moral obligation….unless the will is free, man has no freedom; and if he has no freedom he is not a moral agent, that is, he is incapable of moral action and also of moral character. Free will then, in the above defined sense, must be a condition of moral agency, and of course, of moral obligation.” Charles G. Finney *3
Man is accountable for choosing sin only because he is capable of choosing righteousness over sin. A man is accountable for choosing darkness over the light, only because he is capable of choosing the light over darkness. A man is accountable for disobedience because he is capable of choosing obedience over disobedience. A man is accountable for rejecting Jesus only because he is capable of following Jesus instead of rejecting Jesus. A man is responsible and accountable according to that which is in his realm of control, according to that which is within his power. A man will be judged no more, nor any less, then by his ability, since the commands of God require nothing more then that which is within man’s moral ability, that which is within the realm of moral possibilities.
THE RELATION OF THE MORAL CHARACTER OF GOD TO THE MORAL LAW OF GOD
“Does God give commandments which men cannot obey? Is He so arbitrary, so severe, so unloving, as to issue commandments which cannot be obeyed? The answer is that in all of annals of Holy Scripture, not a single instance is recorded of God having commanded any man to do a thing, which was beyond his power. Is God so unjust and so inconsiderate as to require of man that which he is unable to render? To infer is to slander the character of God.” E. M. Bounds *4
God is not a tyrant, His laws are not tyrannical. Pharaoh commanded brick but gave no straw, and then beat those who failed to perform the impossible. Pharaoh was a tyrant for doing such and scripture assigns the fault to Pharaoh and not with those subservient to him (Exodus 5:16). The moral fault was with the commander, not with the command breakers. The infallible testimony of Divine Inspiration declares that when an impossible law is broken, the problem is with the law itself and with the one who issued the law.
What is vice in Pharaoh would not and could not be virtue in God. What scripture condemns in one is condemnable in all; what is vice in one is vice in all. The equality and impartiality of justice demands that what mars the character of one must mar the character of all, a blemish to one must be a blemish to all.
God does not command obedience but then gives no ability to perform that which is commanded, only to punish with eternal torment those who do not obey when they had no ability to obey. The fault would, according to the divine scriptures, be with the commander and not with the command breaker, when the commands are broken. Sin would ultimately be the fault of the one who gave the unreasonable law, since sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4), and there can be no transgression where there is no law (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13,1John 3:4). Sin then would not and could not be the fault of the one who broken the law which naturally could not be kept. The one who decrees an impossible law must be the ultimate author and actual cause of sin. But the truth is that God is not the author of sin, He is not the ultimate cause of sin, because God’s moral laws are not unreasonable, because God’s moral laws can in fact be kept.
God’s Moral Government, or Moral Kingdom, is not a tyrannical one, but a reasonable and just one. God does not condemn the incapable for failure to perform the impossible, but condemns the able for failure to perform the possible; for voluntarily and freely choosing darkness over the light (John 3:19), “who have received the law” “but have not kept it”. (Acts 7:53)
God’s execution of condemnation is justly exerted upon the capable for violation of commandments that could be kept. Condemnation for violation of commandments is justly deserved upon condition of capability, upon condition of being able to keep the commandments. Condemnation for breaking a law that could not be kept is unjust condemnation. Eternal d**nation for breaking that which was unavoidably and inevitably to be broken is unjust eternal d**nation. God does not send to hell those who are victims of their birth, victims of nature, victims of their parents, victims of fate, who hadn’t any power, option, or ability of obeying all that was required of them. But rather, God sends deserving criminals and rebels to eternal hell, who freely of their own accord choose to walk contrary to the righteous demands of God’s reasonable and just commandments, when it was well within their power, well within their ability of will, to obey and conform to all of their moral obligations and requirements. (1Cor 6:9-10, Rev 21:8)
“It is offering an insult to the only wise God to suppose… that he gave them the Gospel, without giving them power to believe it…With regards to repentance, ‘Then he began,’ says St. Matthew, ‘to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not.’ Merciful Savior, forgive us! We have insulted thy meek wisdom, by representing thee as cruelly upbraiding the lame for not running, the blind for not seeing, and the dumb for not speaking! ... Suppose a schoolmaster said to his English scholars ‘Except you instantly speak Greek you shall all be severely whipped.’ You would wonder at the injustice of the school tyrant. But would not the wretch be merciful in comparison of a Savior, (so called) who is supposed to say to myriads of men, that can no more repent than ice can burn, ‘Except ye repent, ye shall all perish”? John Fletcher *5
“Many sincere men are saying, ‘God gave us good laws to keep,’ and in the next breath saying, ‘we are actually unable to keep them!’ If this is true, then God’s laws are not good! No law is good that asks the impossible of its subjects. If God demands obedience to impossible laws then God is not just... If God demands such obedience under penalty of death, then God is not only unfair, but monstrous. What kind of being would pass laws upon his subjects they are unable to keep, and then condemn them to death for their failure to obey? This is a blasphemy on God’s character.” Winkie Pratney *6
To assume that God commands the impossible at the threat of eternal torment is to directly slander the character of God. Cruelty cannot be ascribed to God’s character because injustice cannot be ascribed to His government. The character of God does not allow anyone to go to hell for failure to perform moral impossibilities, but only for failure to perform moral possibilities. The bible exalts God and glorifies His moral character and says because of God’s eternal character He never, in any circumstance, allows anyone to be tempted beyond their moral ability. A sin hating, sin punishing God provides a way for all sin to be avoided in all cases, always, without exception, providing a way of escape so that we are all, always, able to obey instead of disobey.
“There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 1Cor 10:13
Temptation would not be tempting, if it were forcing. What is forced cannot be considered temptation. Temptation is the inclination towards one choice over the other, the influence towards a decision or direction. Temptation is not the forcing of one choice over the other; it is not the necessitating of one decision or direction. Force or causation is not the nature of temptation but inclination or influence is. Causation and influence are different by nature. Temptation can only respect contingent volitions, relating to that which may or may not occur; but temptation cannot be respecting certain or necessitated volitions, relating to that which will and must occur.
Where sin is forced, there not only could not be sin, but there could not be temptation. But where there is sin and where there is temptation, there must be the freedom of the will. All men are tempted to sin, but no man is forced to sin, because all men are capable of not sinning. If this were not true, neither temptation nor sin could exist for the sinner or for the saint. For sin to be sin, or to have moral guilt, it must be voluntary and avoidable, but not necessitated and forced. And for temptation to be temptation it must be only influence, but not causation. And so “temptation” is “common” to all men, because the power of contrary choice is common to all men. All men have the freedom of their wills, and so the scripture is undeniably true that “ye are able” (1Cor 10:13).
1Cor 10:13 directly and explicitly depicts the eternal, never changing character of God as it relates to man’s ability and temptations. God is just towards all men. God is faithful at all times. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8). Because of the eternally holy, eternally good, eternally just character of God, the commandments of God are never tyrannical or burdensome, but are always moral and reasonable towards all men at all times, being possible by all who are obligated to keep them.
“God is faithful” therefore “ye are able” (1Cor 10:13). “Able” is “δύναμαι” which is to “be able or possible: - be able, can (do, + -not), could, may, might, be possible, be of power”. The only reason “ye are able” is because “God is faithful”. To declare that “ye are not able” would require the declaration that “God is not faithful”. God’s character determines what God commands; and what God commands is always in accordance to our ability; the moral law always respecting our ability by brilliantly declaring “with all thy” (Matthew 22:37).
Since God’s moral character determines God’s moral commandments, when dealing with the moral commandments of God, we are directly dealing with the moral character of God and only subsequently dealing with the capabilities of men. The moral character of God is the primary issue while the moral capacities of men are only the secondary or necessarily connected issue.
(I properly recognize that God’s commandments are ultimately derived from the intrinsic value of His well-being, seeing that His well-being is naturally and eternally of intrinsic value, whose likeness we were made in the image of. God commands that which promotes the highest well-being of all and condemns that which demotes the highest well-being of all; commanding the means that are relatively good and condemning the means that are relatively harmful, in relation to or in accordance with the end which is intrinsically good (well-being) and the end which is intrinsically evil (ill-being). All moral agents necessarily presuppose the intrinsic value of well-being, their consciences condemning that which is harmful to others while commanding that which is helpful to others. God morally requires of men that which is good for all and forbids that which is harmful to all; except in those cases when a moral agent forfeits that right by disregarding the value of others, and therefore brings upon himself the deserved punishment of torment. Because God commands the good and forbids the evil, we can never question the wisdom and goodness of God’s moral commandments without questioning the character and intelligence of the Commander.
It is God’s will that acts voluntarily in accordance with His nature, that acts voluntarily in accordance with His intelligence; His character being derived from His will, which voluntarily declares and determines His public and universal commandments. So while the ultimate foundation of God’s commandments is found in the intrinsic value of His well-being, as demanded by His divine nature or by His divine intelligence, it is still properly true that “God’s character determines God’s commandments”, that is, God’s character ultimately determines what He voluntarily, publicly declares and universally requires of all moral agents. Therefore, to attack the goodness and reasonableness of God’s commandments is to directly attack the character of God.)
“My yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matt 11:30). “His commandments are not grievous.” (1John 5:3). Because His yoke, burden, and commandments are easy, light, and not grievous, therefore “ye are able”. To say “ye are not able” is to say His yoke, burden, and commandments are hard, heavy and burdensome, which would be contrary to the direct and explicit declarations God has given of Himself. The one who misrepresents the commandments must of necessity misrepresent the Commander.
Therefore the declaration of the ability of man is an exaltation of the character of God, and the renunciation of the ability of man is a denunciation of the character of God. The one who rejects the ability of man thereby slanders and undermines the wisdom of God’s Divine Intelligence and the goodness of God’s Divine Character.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 23, 2007 16:59:20 GMT -5
THE CONDITION OF THE MORAL CHARACTER OF SINNERS AND THE CONDITION OF THE NATURAL FACULTIES OF SINNERS
The bible describes the moral condition of the unconverted sinners as totally and completely morally depraved, as never doing any good at all, entirely destitute of all virtue, bankrupt of all real righteousness and deplete of all true holiness: Matt 6:22-24, Matt 7:17-18, Luke 11:34-36, Rom 3:10-18, 2Cor 5:17, Titus 1:15-16, James 3:11-12. But total moral depravity is not synonymous with natural inability; inability meaning that the will is no longer free to make the contrary choice. An important distinction must be made between the condition of the moral character of sinners and the condition of the natural faculties of sinners. Moral character and natural capabilities must not be confused, they are not identical. What is constitutional and what is ethical must be sharply distinguished between for a sound theology.
Moral character absolutely could not exist without moral agency, and moral agency absolutely could not exist without natural faculties; specifically, as relating to this discourse, the freedom of the will. Both the morally virtuous and the morally depraved conditions of men, which make up their moral character, are dependent upon the functional faculty or uninjured freedom of the will. Where this does not exist, moral agency and therefore moral character cannot exist. And where moral character does not exist, moral accountability cannot exist.
Individuals that are totally morally depraved still maintain the ability of choosing the good over evil; they still have the faculty of free-will. Moral depravity is not a crippled faculty, but moral depravity is the abuse or improper function of an existing, functioning faculty. Sin is not the inability to do right, sin is an abuse of the liberty of the ability; sin is an unwillingness to use the faculty of the will rightly, to use the gift of free will according to the intended purpose of the faculty Creator.
Free will is a gift from God so that man could rightly choose the good over the evil. But sin consists in voluntarily choosing wrongly, the evil over the good. Man could not be capable of evil if he were not capable of good; neither could man be capable of good if he were not capable of evil. True virtue and true blameworthiness consists in that which is voluntarily chosen, not that which was necessitated. That which is necessitated cannot have moral character, but moral character can only be in connection with that which was voluntarily chosen; which object was morally right or morally wrong.
Inability to do right is not and could not be sin, for inability to do good does not allow for the existence of guilt, it does not allow for voluntary transgression in which sin alone consists. Inability to do good would inevitably be the inability to sin, for sin is the voluntary choice or voluntary violation of God’s reasonable and good law (1John 3:4), sin consists alone in the voluntary moral choice to choose the evil over the option of the good. And inability to sin would inevitably be the inability to be virtuous, for virtue consists in voluntarily choosing the good over the option of evil.
Justin the Martyr of the Early Church said, “Every created being is so constituted as to be capable of vice and virtue. For he can do nothing praiseworthy, if he had not the power of turning either way.” And “unless we suppose man has the power to choose the good and refuse the evil, no one can be accountable for any action whatever.” *7
Turtullian of the same century said, “No reward can be justly bestowed, no punishment can be justly inflicted, upon him who is good or bad by necessity, and not by his own choice.” *8
Origen said, “The soul does not incline to either part out of necessity, for then neither vice nor virtue could be ascribed to it; nor would its choice of virtue deserve reward; nor its declination to vice punishment.” Again, “How could God require that of man which he [man] had not power to offer Him?” *9
(All of the Early Church Fathers, for the first 4-5 centuries, unanimously agreed and affirmed the freedom of the will, especially as an indispensable condition of moral agency and moral accountability. This doctrine was universally a fundamental pillar of the Christian faith, challenged only by the heathen philosophers of the day.)
Since sin does not consist in the inability to choose good over evil, but rather in the voluntarily choosing of evil over the good, men truly deserve hell, not because of any involuntary inability, but rather because of their voluntary unwillingness.
It must be distinctly understood that total moral depravity is respecting moral character but it is not at all any sort of total inability respecting the capabilities of the faculties of the personality. Total moral depravity is rather the utter and absolute unwillingness to choose good over evil. A man who is totally morally depraved still has the capacity of good just as the man totally morally righteous has the capacity of evil, because righteousness and wickedness are respecting voluntary choices or voluntary character and not at all the capabilities and capabilities of the faculties of the personality.
The wicked and the righteous have the faculty of free-will imbedded in their personality, and it must exist as long as they themselves exist. Therefore, the righteous man can “turn from his righteousness” and choose sin (Ezekiel 18:24) and “the wicked” can “turn from all his sin” and choose righteousness (Ezekiel 18:21). The character or choices of an individual can always change, because the faculty of the will always remains in tact and functional.
A man is unable only in that sense that he is unwilling, but not in that he hasn’t the needed and necessary faculties. He is always free to will contrary to his previous will. If this were not true, neither falling from a state of perfection, nor recovering from a fallen state of sin, could be possible at all to anyone. Neither falling, nor converting, nor backsliding, would be or could be possible at all, if a man could not will contrary to his previous will, if the faculty of the will was not functional.
But a man is unable only in that he is unwilling, but not in that he is incapable respecting his faculty. He is unable only because of his character, because of his choices, because of his will, not because of his faculties or natural capabilities. A man who willingly chooses sin cannot willingly choose righteousness only while he is unwilling to choose righteousness, only while he is willingly choosing sin. (Rom 8:5-8) And a man who willingly chooses righteousness cannot willingly choose sin, only while he is unwilling to choose sin, only while he is willingly choosing righteousness. (1John 3:8) But the faculty of the will is always free to choose, always maintaining the power of contrary choice. The faculty of the will can, at all times, either submit itself to the sensibilities, that is, to the lusts of the flesh (1John 2:16) or to the truth and instruction of God revealed to the intelligence by the Spirit of grace (Gal 5:16, Titus 2:11). The will is free because it always has these two opposite choices, to do what feels good for self or what is known as good for others.
Since sin does not consist in the inability to choose good over evil, total moral depravity is not and could not be total natural inability. Total moral depravity simply could not exist without moral ability. Character is not capabilities or capacities. What constitutional and what is ethical are completely separate in nature. A proper distinction between the two is vital to an accurate theological view of sin and sinners, and of God and His government.
FREE MORAL AGENCY CONTINUED EVEN AFTER THE FALL OF ADAM AND EVE
Free moral agency did not terminate with the fall of Adam and Eve when they ate from “the tree of knowledge of good and evil” (Gen 2:9). Eating from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” did not eliminate moral agency, and thus eliminate moral accountability, but it rather expanded and enlarged it. The “eyes of them both were opened” (Gen 3:7), and they became like God, “knowing good and evil” (Gen 3:22). With this increase of moral knowledge came the increase of moral obligation and moral accountability. The increase of moral knowledge never terminates moral agency or moral accountability but rather enhances and enlarges it.
God himself addressed Cain as a free moral agent, capable of both good and evil even after the fall of Adam and Eve: “And the Lord saith unto Cain, why art thou wroth? And why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.” (Genesis 4:6-7) Cain had no reason to be “wroth”; he had no reason for his “countenance” to be “fallen”, because his free moral agency still remained in tact, his moral capabilities remained functional.
Even after the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind maintained the ability to “doest well” and to “doest evil” and to “rule” over sin. The contingency and possibility to do good and evil, to be righteous or to be wicked, still remained apart of man’s realm of capability. Cain and Abel, the offspring of the same exact parents, after the fall, were still moral agents. But one was righteous and the other wicked because of their voluntary choices. Abel’s works were “righteous” (1John 3:12) and Abel himself was “righteous” (Matt 23:35) But Cain was wicked and did evil works (1John 3:12). Cain could have done well just as much as his blood brother Abel did; he could have done righteously and could have been righteous, and he could have been acceptable to God. He was not forced to sin by circumstances, by fate, by nature, by his parents, or by God. His will still operated under the law of liberty, not the law of necessity. He had the contingent choice of two moral possibilities and he voluntarily selected one over the other; and therein is the first condition of moral accountability – the moral ability or the power of contrary choice.
GOD’S MORAL LAW OR MORAL GOVERNMENT ADDRESSES ALL MORAL AGENTS AS FREE, APPEALING TO THEIR MORAL CAPABILITIES
Those that are totally depraved sinners still maintain the faculty of free will, which is the power of contrary choice. The bible everywhere addresses the natural ability of totally depraved individuals. God often appeals to the free will of sinners to turn away from sin and be converted:
“Choose you this day whom ye will serve;” Joshua 24:15 “Wash yourself, make yourself clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be read like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: but if refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.” Isaiah 1:16-20
“Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:6-7
“Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground.” Hosea 10:12
“Turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.” Ezekiel 18:30
“Cast away from you all your transgressions…..make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit” Ezekiel 18:31
“For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.” Ezekiel 18:32
“Return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.” Jeremiah 18:11
“Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; and the Lord will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.” Jeremiah 26:13
“Save yourselves from his untoward generation.” Act 2:40
“God… commands all men every where to repent” Acts 17:30
“Ye have obeyed from the heart” Romans 6:17
“Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh” 1Corinthians 7:1
“If any man therefore purge himself” 2Timothy 2:21
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.” James 4:2
“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded.” James 4:8
“Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep; let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.” James 4:9
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord” James 4:10
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth” 1Peter 1:22
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelations 22:17
Jesus spoke of one individual who first said “I will not” when confronted with a request, but then “afterward repented” and did according to it. And there was another who first said he would, but afterward repented and did it not. (Matt 21:28-30) This clearly shows that a man can change his mind; that is, he can change his will; he can will contrary to his previous will, because the will is at all times a free faculty with the power of contrary choice. If this were not true, this parable could not be true, and Christ would be found a liar, which He most certainly is not.
Forced obedience and forced disobedience is a contradiction in terms. Obedience and disobedience must be willful, voluntary, and intentional; they must be from the heart (Matthew 12:35, Matthew 15:18-19, Romans 6:17).
The unconverted are totally responsible for their impenitent state, for their hardness against the truth (Romans 2:5), as all sinful men are completely responsible for their immoral state, because of the freedom of their will. God therefore appeals in scripture to the will of man, to turn away from sin and turn to Him, to be completely and utterly dependant upon the Holy Spirit for instruction and guidance into all the ways of righteousness and holiness, to be entirely dependant upon His grace and mercy for the forgiveness of all repented sins. The only thing that keeps sinners from the forgiveness of God is an unwillingness to turn from sin and to seek after Him. (Matthew 7:7, 2Peter 3:9)
“They that would not come [to Christ], ought not to impute it to another, but only to themselves, because, when they are called, it was in the power of their free will to come.” Augustine *10
THE CRIMINALITY OF TRANGRESSION: SINNERS ARE REBELS NOT VICTIMS
True total moral depravity is when a sinner never chooses to do rightly or benevolently, but only wickedly or selfishly. Those who never choose to do rightly, which are all men prior to conversion to Christ, are totally morally depraved. But moral depravity is not natural inability. Character and capabilities must not be confused; character and constitution are not identical. Character does not consist in your faculties, but in the usage of those faculties. Inability would not, could not, and is not sin. Only unwillingness to do rightly, when there is the capability of doing rightly, is sin - sin that is punishable by eternal torment.
Sinners sin because they want to, not because they have to, and that is where the criminality of transgression consists. Sinners are criminals in their will, not victims of their nature, constitution, or faculties. Sinners are criminals because they sin when they do not have to sin; sinners are sinners because they rebel against God when they could surrender and obey God. Sinners are criminals because they sin, and they sin because they want to. A sinner is a sinner by choice, not by force or necessity, and is therefore a rebel and not a victim, with nobody to blame for his sin but himself.
A mans guilt is proportioned to his ability, being guilty only to the extent that he was capable of better. Justice does not allow guilt to exceed ability; ability must always precede guilt. Capability determines responsibility and responsibility determines accountability. Capability (ability), responsibility (obligation), and accountability (awarding and punishing according praiseworthiness or blameworthiness) are in an inseparable relation one towards another, so that none can exist if one does not exist; they equally limit each other. They are an inseparable chain that stands or falls together. One is not accountable unless he is responsible, and one is not responsible unless he is capable.
“Sin is always a wrong voluntary attitude or purpose of life, or a wrong motive of heart. Sin is not a fixed something back of the will controlling its actions. The will determines the nature of character... We are sinners simply because we choose to sin or live selfishly. We are never held accountable for what we are not the author of. Ability is always the measure of responsibility.” Gordon Olson *11
Jesus rightly rebuked the unrepentant because they were unwilling; He did not cruelly rebuke the unable for not doing (John 5:40) They were criminals who rightly needed rebuking, because they were unwilling, not because they were unable. Sinners are voluntarily unwilling, not constitutionally unable. Men cannot blame Adam, Eve, Satan, God, society, or nature for their sin and impenitence. Those who are unconverted are unconverted, not because of God or anything else, but because of themselves, because they “would not come” unto Jesus that they “might have life” (John 5:40). Sinners have nothing but their own will to blame for their rebellion against the law of God and their refusal to come to Jesus Christ.
As the Saintly A. W. Tozer rightly said, “What man ought to do, he can do” *12
We are accountable only to our obligations. A man cannot be accountable for that which he was not obligated to do. And our obligations are respecting our abilities only. A man cannot be obligated to do that which he was unable to do. Therefore those who must do better can do better and those who can do better must do better. Account-ability is the giving of account of one’s use of ability, being accountable in accordance to ones capabilities. You are accountable only for what you can do; and what you can do, you are accountable for.
All sinners voluntarily choose to sin, to abuse their ability; to do what they know is wrong. And therein is the criminality of transgression, the guilt of rebellion, and the justice of eternal d**nation.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 23, 2007 17:00:09 GMT -5
2. MORAL KNOWLEDGE: a Necessary Prerequisite to Moral Ability, thus a Necessary Prerequisite to Moral Accountability
THE RELATION OF MORAL KNOWLEDGE TO MORAL ABILITY
To be accountable to do better, one must know to do better. One could not be capable of doing better if they did not know to do better. Since accountability never exceeds ability, accountability never exceeds knowledge, since knowledge is a prerequisite of ability.
What a man does not know to do, a man is not and could not be capable of doing. And what a man is not capable of, a man cannot be accountable for. Accountability is always in accordance with ability; accountability is always in accordance with knowledge, because knowledge is a precondition of ability.
Knowledge and ability are interwoven. By logically connection, since ability is the unalterable and undeniable condition of accountability, knowledge must also be an unalterable and undeniable condition of accountability, since knowledge is a necessary requirement of ability.
One cannot write a paper who does not know how to write at all; one cannot swim who does not know how to swim. Knowing how is a precondition to actually doing. They may have the natural ability to learn how to write and to learn how to swim, but without the knowledge of how, they simply cannot actually perform or really do. Without knowledge one may have the capability of ability, but not the actuality of ability; that is, they may be capable of achieving or capable of learning before knowledge, (such capability of learning being a prerequisite to the attainment of any knowledge) but they are not capable of performing or doing until the acquisition of the knowledge has been attained.
Therefore, one is only capable or able of what one is knowledgeable of. And since the extent of accountability is the extent of ability, and the extent of ability is the extent of knowledge, personal accountability cannot, does not, and will not exceed personal knowledge.
THE RELATION OF MORAL KNOWLEDGE TO MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY
Accountability never can, does, or will exceed ability; and ability never can, does, or will exceed knowledge. One is only accountable to what one is capable of, and one is only capable of what one is knowledgeable of. One cannot be morally accountable if one is not morally capable, and one is not morally capable of what one is not morally knowledgeable of.
“Where no law is, there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15
“To him who knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
“A…condition of moral obligation is light, or so much knowledge of our relations as to develop the idea of ought-ness…the perception or idea of the intrinsically valuable.” Charles G. Finney *13
Increased knowledge equals increased responsibility which necessitates an increase in accountability. The more knowledge that one has, the more that one will be accountable for. Therefore increased disobedience to increased knowledge equals an increased guilt. Violation of greater knowledge is a “greater sin” (John 19:11) which necessitates a “greater condemnation” (Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47, James 3:1). A “greater sin” is a violation of greater knowledge. All sin is equal in its nature, being rebellion against light or known law. But not all sin is equal in its guilt or deservingness of punishment, which is measured and determined by the amount of light sinned against.
Not a single soul has even gone to hell for not knowing better then to sin. But all souls have gone to hell because they knew better then to sin and to rebel against God. All sin is a violation of what is intelligent, against what is reasonable, against the intuitions of the reason and against the clearly perceived dictations of the conscience, against known moral law. Sin is never reasonable, intelligence, or excusable. God has given a conscience to all men of all nations (John 1:9, Rom 2:15, Rom 1:21) which testifies of His own existence and declares His reasonable moral demands. Con-science is “con” and “science” which mean’s “with-knowledge”. All intelligent individuals have knowledge, and therefore know better in accordance with their knowledge, and thereby ought to will in accordance with their knowledge. All sinners with a con-science sin with-knowledge that it is wrong.
The measure of responsibility/obligation, accountability/guilt is in exact proportion to the mind’s perception of moral law, proportioned exactly to the individual’s knowledge of right and wrong. A mans guilt is proportioned to his ability, and his ability is proportioned to his knowledge, being guilty only to the extent that he was capable of better and being capable of better only to the extend that he knew better. Guilt cannot exceed ability; ability cannot exceed knowledge, ability must precede guilt, and knowledge must precede ability. So moral guilt can only proceed out of moral knowledge and moral ability.
Therefore personal accountability will never exceed personal knowledge. All are judged by the knowledge that they possess, and are found innocent or guilty in accordance with that knowledge.
If a man sins a “sin of ignorance” (Lev 4:13), doing that which “ought not to be done” (Lev 4:2) “when he knows of it” only “then he shall be guilty” (Lev 5:3), being held responsible only when it is “known”. (Lev 4:14)
Moral responsibility and moral accountability cannot exceed moral knowledge. Moral knowledge is an unmovable precondition of moral guilt. The entire world is guilty of sin because they entire world has a conscience, the entire world knows better.
THE CLEAR AND EXPLICIT TEACHING OF DIVINE INSPIRATION RESPECTING MORAL KNOWLEDGE AND MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY
That a man is guilty only to the extend that he knew better; that accountability is measured by knowledge; and increased knowledge equals increased accountability, can be clearly derived from the following passages:
“Woe unto thee, Chorazin! Woe unto thee, Bethsaida! For if the might works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, then for you.” Matthew 11:21-22
“And that servant, which knew his Lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did not commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required” Luke 12:47-48
“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34
“Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains.” John 9:41
“If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin.” John 15:22
“Where no law is, there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15
“Sin is not imputed when there is no law.” Romans 5:13
“To him who knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
Some sinners have a “greater sin” John 19:11
Hypocrites (who all know better) will have a greater d**nation: Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
Teachers (who by necessity know more) are accountable to a stricter judgment: James 3:1
See also: Matt 10:15, Matt 11:24, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, Luke 10:14, Heb 10:26, 2Peter 2:21
And so it is abundantly seen that all men are judged and accountable to the knowledge that they have; those with little knowledge are accountable to that little knowledge, no more and no less; those with greater knowledge are accountable to that greater knowledge, no more and no less; but personal moral responsibility and personal moral accountability never exceeds the limits of personal moral knowledge.
MORAL KNOWLEDGE AND THE AGE OF MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY
The scriptures teach what is commonly called “the age of accountability” or “the age of reason”, when a child reaches the age when his mind is developed and he has a proper conscious idea of right and wrong; when he can knowingly affirm and distinguish between the good and the evil.
“Your children, which….had no knowledge between good and evil” Deut 1:39
“For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good” Isaiah 7:16
“For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil” Rom 9:11
“To him who knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
Psychology itself testifies that the mind of a child slowly develops and is not fully developed at birth. When an individual has the conscious idea of right and wrong, and has the perception of the Divine and the human value and worth, then they are accountable for their moral actions and states. But if one does not know any better, then they cannot do any better, and therefore has no sin or guilt. Guilt can only be prescribed to him that knows to do better then what he does, to those who “know to do right” but “does it not”. Moral ignorance is moral innocence, as the moral condition of Adam and Eve was innocent, though naked, before the opening of their eyes when they knew right from wrong.
One can be guilty or praiseworthy of nothing except for that which is intentionally committed, and nothing can be intentionally committed that was not knowingly committed, that which was known to be right or wrong.
“Moral law is a pure and simple idea of the reason. It is the idea of perfect, universal, and constant consecration of the whole being to the highest good of being. Just this is, and nothing more or less can be, moral law; for just this, and nothing more or less, is a state of heart and a course of life exactly suited to the nature and relations of moral agents, which alone is the only true definition of moral law.” Charles. G. Finney *14
All intelligent agents are therefore moral agents; all with a conscience (moral consciousness) are accountable to that conscience (moral consciousness), no more and no less.
Jesus Christ had “innocent blood” (Matt 27:4, Matt 27:24) because he had never sinned (2Cor 5:21), and new born babies have “innocent blood” (Deut 19:10, 2Kings 24:4, Ps 106:38) because they haven’t sinned (Rom 9:11) but are morally guilty when their conscience (moral consciousness) develops and they choose to voluntarily sin for themselves, against their better judgment.
THE RELATION OF MORAL KNOWLEDGE TO REPROBATION AND APOSTACY
The more that one grows in the knowledge of the Lord, yet continues sinning even with their increased knowledge, the closer they are to reprobation when it would be no longer possible for them to be reached, because it would be impossible to enlighten them anymore then what they already have been.
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” Heb 6:4-6
There is a point when a person received enough knowledge that should have sufficiently secured their total conversion and perseverance in the faith, when no more knowledge could be added to the knowledge already received, which leaves the individual in total reprobation or totally inability to be saved, because they have refused to submit to all the possible influence that could have been exerted. Anyone who chooses to sin every day, yet grows in the knowledge of the Lord every day, becomes closer and closer to total and incurable reprobation every day. Once they have been “enlightened” and have “tasted” and have been “partakers”, yet are still disobedient, it is then “impossible” to “renew them again unto repentance”.
One who grows “in the knowledge of our Lord” must “grow in grace” (2Peter 3:18) or ultimately become reprobate. He that “receives the knowledge of the truth”, but continues in “willful” disobedience, faces “fiery indignations” (Heb 10:26-27). Such a one will have “sorer” or worse “punishment” (Heb 10:28). The more knowledge one receives the more obedience one must increase in. The one who grows in “hardness and impenitence of heart”, refusing to obey the perceived truth, “treasures up” “wrath” which will be poured out on the day of wrath”. (Rom 2:5). Those that have “once escaped the pollutions of the world through knowledge” and yet are “once again entangled in them”, it would have “been better for them not to have known” then to “have known” and yet “turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them”, and “the latter end is worst with them then the beginning”. (2Peter 2:20-21) The sinner with more knowledge is worst then the sinner with less knowledge.
Those who refuse the “knowledge of God” end up with a “reprobate mind”. (Romans 1:28) Those who “resist the truth” become “reprobate” because of their “corrupt minds”. (2Timothy 3:8) Reprobation is when the heart has rejected all the possible light that could be given to their minds to secure their conversion, when the will is in a state of impenitence and hardness towards all possible knowledge designed to secure repentance.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 23, 2007 17:00:53 GMT -5
THE CRIMINALITY OF TRANGRESSION: SINNERS ARE CRIMINALS AND NOT VICTIMS
Criminality, or guilt, is prescribed solely to the inward intention of the heart, or to the purpose or motive of the will, and does not consist solely in the outward actions. God is not at all described in the scriptures as being impressed with outward actions, but rather as looking upon and judging the motives and intentions of the heart. Gen 6:5, 1Sam 16:7, Joel 2:12-14, Matt 5:8, Matt 6:1-5, Matt 12:35, Matt 15:11, Matt 15:17-20, Matt 23:25-28, Mark 7:15-23, Luke 10:27, Hebrews 4:12, 1Tim 1:5, Titus 1:15
The intention and motive is what God is concerned about. You are as your intention is. The intention for adultery is adultery (Matthew 5:28), the intention for murder is murder (1John 3:15). A man is as guilty as his intention is. Moral character, or the quality of a person’s moral state, consists in the moral condition of their inward intention, being either that of criminality or rectitude.
The Pharisees appeared “outwardly righteous” but were “inwardly full of iniquity” (Matt 23:28) because they fasted and prayed to be seen of men. (Matt 6:5, Matt 23:5). They were as their inward motive was, not as their outward works were. They were not even in the least bit righteous, but were full of iniquity; because what they did, they did selfishly and not benevolently; they did it for themselves and not for God and others; and virtue consists solely in benevolence of heart while sin consists solely in selfishness of heart.
When the inward intention is morally wrong (selfish), the outward action which follows from it, no matter what sort it is (even praying and fasting), does not grant any moral character to the moral agent except from its relation to the individual’s motive. And where the intention is morally right (benevolent), there can be no moral guilt (1Cor 6:12, 1Cor 10:23, Titus 1:15), since guilt is prescribed solely to a wrong (selfish) intention.
“The fact is, that moral agents are so constituted that it is impossible for them not to judge themselves, and others, by their subjective motives and intentions. They cannot but assume, as a first truth, that a man’s character is as his intention is, and consequently, that moral obligation respects, directly, intention only.” Charles G. Finney *15
Responsibility, accountability, and therefore criminality, does not exceed the boundaries of the inward intention, which of necessity and inevitably manifests itself in outward action and conduct whenever possible and required.
Because criminality is prescribed to intention, and intention depends upon knowledge (to intend to do something one must know they are intending to do something), sinners are sinners not because they do not know any better but rather because they do not will any better, because they do not intend in accordance with their conscience, in alignment with the intuitions of their reason. Their guilt lies in their knowledge of good and evil, combined with their refusal to choose, will, or intend the good over the evil. If there was no knowledge, there could be no guilt. For moral guilt is measured by moral knowledge. Total ignorance would necessitate total innocence. But knowledge, combined with unwillingness to obey knowledge, necessitates guilt in proportion to the knowledge.
You are as your intention is, and your guilt is as your knowledge is. One is as morally guilty as he is unwilling to obey the moral knowledge that he has, no more and no less. A sinner is a criminal for intentionally going against the demands of his conscience. A sinner is a criminal for sinning against his better judgment; for voluntarily, knowingly, and intentionally choosing the evil when he had the available option and ability of choosing the good.
THE EXTENT OF PERSONAL MORAL GUILT
Because the extent of personal guilt or sin cannot, does not, and will not exceed the boundaries of personal ability, and therefore personal knowledge, and therefore personal intention, a moral agent is only accountable for their own personal actions. The extent of personal guilt is the extent of personal sin.
A child is therefore not accountable for the sins of the father. The whole of mankind is not accountable for the sins of the one man Adam. But each man is accountable for their own sins voluntarily done in their own body. Divine inspiration clearly ascribes personal guilt to personal sins only. Sinners go to hell for their own voluntary, avoidable, optional, personal violations of God’s reasonable and good moral law. The law of God that condemns sinners is reasonable and moral, not burdensome and tyrannical, seeing that all who are obligated to keep it are capable of keeping it. No man has ever gone to hell for the sins of another, just as no man has ever gone to hell for not knowing better or for failure to performing impossibilities. The one who sins shall die for his own sin. All sinners go to hell for their own transgressions or violations of God’s moral law; sinners are condemned for originating their own sin.
“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” Deuteronomy 24:16
“The Lord commanded, saying, the fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but everyman shall be put to death for his own sin.” 2Kings 14:6
“The Lord commanded, saying, the fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but everyman shall die for his own sin.” 2Chronicals 25:4
“Yet say ye, why? Doeth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all of my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father; neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Ezekiel 18:19-20
“God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions” Ecclesiastes 7:29
“Who will render to everyman according to his deeds.” Romans 2:6
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, weather it be good or bad.” 2Corinthians 5:10
“All our d**nation is of ourselves, through our avoidable unfaithfulness…everyone shall die for his own avoidable iniquity.” John Fletcher *16
“For how can He punish [with endless torments] a nature which had no power to do good, but was bound in the hands of wickedness?” Theodorite *17
“Neither promises nor apprehensions, rewards, no punishments are just if the soul has not the power of choosing and abstaining; if evil is involuntary.” Clemens of Alexandria *18
This is the clear and explicit teaching, the infallible truth of the justice of God found in the Divine revelation of inspiration; that each man is personally judged and condemned according to his own personal deeds, and not by the deeds of another.
Remember, a sharp distinction must be made between the physical and the moral; a difference must be discretely drawn between the constitutional and the ethical. This is of vital importance to a sound theology.
PHYSICAL DEPRAVITY: We genetically inherit our physical make-up or physical constitution from our parents, with its physical lusts, physical cravings, physical desires, and physical depravities: Genesis 1:21, 1Corinthians 15:21-22, 1Corinthians 15:38-39, Heb 2:14. But physical constitutions have no moral character in and of themselves, apart from their voluntary use as controlled by the will or heart of man: Matthew 15:17-20, Mark 7:15, Romans 6:13
MORAL DEPRAVITY: We do not inherit the guilt or sin of our parents, being accountable and judged only for our own sins, our own voluntary moral depravity; as well as rewarded only for our own works: Deut 24:16, 2Kings 14:6, 2Chron 25:4, Ezekiel 18:2-4, Ezekiel 18:19-20, Matt 16:27, Rom 2:6, Rom 2:8-9, Rom 9:11, 2Cor 5:10, 2Cor 11:15, James 4:17, Rev 22:12.
With such abundant and clear teaching revealed by God Himself, it is a wonder so many have stumbled greatly at this point, bring much confusion to the consciences and minds of both the Church and the world of lost sinners, with unreasonable and uninspired views of guilt and accountability; namely that one is accountable for that which was beyond his control, without his consent, without his knowledge, and that one is accountable for the sins of another.
Absurd doctrinal dogmas as those do not help in the conversion of souls, bringing no personal conviction of sin, as they are repulsive to the consciences of men. Preaching and teaching such views as those are destructive to a proper perspective of sin and sinners, God and His Kingdom (or Government). The minds of men simply cannot affirm guilt beyond the boundaries of knowledge, ability, and intention; they cannot ascribe personal guilt to that which was not personal, intentional, and within their control; and neither do the infallible, inspired scriptures teach such things. God couldn’t have been any clearer then He was in the scriptures listed above.
CONCLUSION OF THE WHOLE MATTER
None can prove, either with reason or with revelation, that men are accountable beyond their ability or beyond their knowledge. If anyone assumes such views, the burden is upon them to try to prove it.
The reasonably sound and explicit teachings of inspiration is that all men are accountable to what they know and to what they are capable of, being judged solely for that which was voluntary, for that which was within their realm of knowledge and control. Moral accountability never exceeds the extents of moral knowledge and moral ability, but divine judgment is directed exclusively towards moral intention; to what was knowingly, intentionally, and voluntarily committed.
When there is moral knowledge and moral ability there is moral accountability. But where there is no moral knowledge and no moral ability, there could not be any moral accountability. Moral agency is conditioned upon these. If a man does not know better, he could not be accountable or obligated to do better. And if a man is not capable of doing better, he could not be accountable or obligated to do better. Intelligence and freedom are necessary requisites for moral agency. Thus a moral agent is judged according to his moral intelligence and moral ability. Only an intelligent, free moral agent is capable of vice, virtue, blameworthiness, and praiseworthiness. Only an intelligent, free moral agent is subjected to obligation and accountability; subjected to Moral Government.
This is why God has given light to every man and why God calls all men everywhere to repent; all men are accountable because all men know better and are capable of better. Nobody sins out of necessity but sin is always an abuse of liberty or a deviation of God’s intention in granting the gift of free-will.
Jerome of the Early Church wrote, “God has bestowed us with free will. We are not necessarily drawn either to virtue or vice. For when necessity rules, there is no room left either for d**nation or the crown.” *19
We must take the message of eternal accountability to the world, confronting sinners who are criminals because of their intention, as opposed to victims of their circumstances; as moral agents who know better then to sin and are capable of forsaking all their sins and surrendering entirely to the Lord Jesus Christ.
We must preach in accordance with the Holy Spirit which seeks to grip the hearts of rebels with the fear of the Lord at the contemplation of their eternal accountability, convicting or convincing their minds of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come (John 16:8, Acts 24:25). They must see their need of grace for the forgiveness of sins, to be awakened to the dire need of the pardon of their defiance and rebellion in order to have a right relationship with God and eternal life with Jesus Christ. All men need Jesus Christ, not because they can’t obey God, but because they haven’t obeyed God; and therein lay the reason for the need of the grace and mercy of God which comes through the cross, the forgiveness of open rebellion.
Sinners must see their need of God’s instruction, to be lead into all holiness by the Holy Spirit, who alone can infallibly instruct and lead men as to the proper use of their God given abilities and faculties. As one cannot learn Latin without a Latin teacher, one cannot learn to live holy without the Holy Spirit. All men must voluntary yield to and obey the light that God reveals, the truth imparted by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:1, Romans 8:14)
While free-will is what makes a man a man, a personally accountable agent, instead of a mere necessitated machine; the faculties and capacities of men were not intended or purposed to work and operate autonomously; their proper functions are not independent of God and His revelation, but rather are dependent upon God and His revelation; as He reveals truth to our intelligence, to our reason and our conscience, being lead by the revelation of the Holy Spirit revealed to our consciousness, directing and influencing our will. Any use, other then the use intended and purposed by God, must be an improper use of our faculties and abilities, and is nothing short of d**nable rebellion and sin.
Man is therefore always and eternally dependant upon God for right and proper conduct, for the right and proper function of his faculties; dependant upon God for instruction, guidance, correction, and encouragement. (Acts 6:10, 1Corinthians 2:10, Galatians 3:24, Ephesians 3:16, Titus 2:11-12) Thus the Holy Spirit always initiates the conversion of men (John 6:44, John 12:32), being the antecedent to the heart conversion of those who repent and believe. (Romans 8:11, 1Corinthians 12:3)
We must work along side the Holy Spirit, being “laborers together with God” (1Cor 3:9, 2Cor 6:1), in a synergetic relationship, both to live holy ourselves (John 15:5) and to help convert the world to Christ (1Corinthians 3:6-7); to press the minds of men with their personal guilt because of their personal knowledge and because of their personal ability, thus revealing to them their personal need of the personal Savior Jesus Christ for the personal pardon of all the personal sins of their personal past. (Rom 3:25)
God help us in this extraordinary task; in this eternally important mission – the reconciliation of a rebellious world to a holy and good Creator.
SOURCE OF THE QUOTES FOUND ABOVE
*1 Augustine; Joy and Strength, pg 192, published by Grosset & Dunlap 1929
*2 Charles G. Finney; Lectures on Systematic Theology, 1851 Edition, pg 35
*3 Charles G. Finney; Lectures on Systematic Theology, 1851 Edition, pg 46-47
*4 E. M. Bounds; The Complete Works of E. M. Bounds on Prayer, pg 53; Baker Books
*5 John Fletcher; Checks to Antinomianism by John Fletcher, Second Check, pg 142, 145, 146
*6 Winkie Pratney; The Nature of Sin, pg 5
* 7 Justin the Martyr; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 61, published by Truth in Heart
* 8 Turtullian; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 61, published by Truth in Heart
*9 Origen; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 62, published by Truth in Heart
*10 Augustine; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 63, published by Truth in Heart
*11 Gordon Olson: The Truth Shall Set You Free, pg 71-72
*12 A. W. Tozer; Sermon on SermonIndex.net
*13 Charles G. Finney; Lectures on Systematic Theology, 1851 Edition, pg 47
*14 Charles G. Finney; Lectures on Systematic Theology, 1851 Edition, pg 36
*15 Charles G. Finney; Lectures on Systematic Theology, 1851 Edition, pg 56
*16 John Fletcher; Checks to Antinomianism by John Fletcher, Second Check, pg 130, 147
*17 Theodorite; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 62, published by Truth in Heart
*18 Theodorite; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 63, published by Truth in Heart
*19 Jerome; Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 62, published by Truth in Heart
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Post by blynn on May 23, 2007 18:25:45 GMT -5
This was very helpful to me Jesse thank you for posting it.
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Post by tbxi on May 23, 2007 22:14:04 GMT -5
I have seen this assertion made over and over again here, but it has never been backed up. Please cite your source for this information. Frankly, I don't believe you.
I am working on reading all of this. Will comment some in the future, but I cannot comment on the scope of an equally sized response.
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Post by tbxi on May 23, 2007 22:26:54 GMT -5
Another quick thing I noticed:
What happens to the bushman who never hears the gospel then, and dies? Much, much, much is made of the idea that God would be a cruel taskmaster and a tyrant if He held someone accountable for something they were unable to do. This man would have been unable to repent of his sins and believe the gospel in order to be saved because he never heard. If you believe that ability never can, does, or will exceed knowledge, then it means this man did not have the ability to believe the gospel. If you believe accountability never can, does or will exceed ability, then it means that this man is therefore not accountable for not believing the gospel.
How would you respond to this?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 26, 2007 14:34:42 GMT -5
The man who knows right from wrong will be judged according to that which He knows.
He that knows it's wrong to lie, will be judged according to that knowledge.
He that knows it's wrong to steal, will be judged according to that knowledge.
Etc etc
I covered this in length in the whole article, giving abundant scriptural support.
The one who never hears of Christ, cannot be judged for rejecting Christ, because he never rejected Christ, because he never heard of Christ.
But the "bushman" who has a God given conscience, and knew it was wrong to lie, steal, murder, etc etc, will be judged according to that knowledge, and be condemned for lying, stealing, and murdering, if he had ever done it.
It would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gommorrah on the day of judgment then for others. And it will be more tolerable for the "bushman" on the day of judgment, then for those who hear the gospel and reject it!
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Post by tbxi on May 26, 2007 16:30:15 GMT -5
Yes, Jesse, I realize it will be more tolerable for those who have no knowledge of the gospel. But what I am saying is, the pygmy had no ability to repent and believe the gospel and as such, according to you, should not be held accountable for not doing such. This man never had an opportunity to be forgiven of his sins (and the Bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and therefore, if I am to take your line of reasoning, I could say "hey, it's not fair that he didn't get to hear about the gospel while other people did." The "it isn't fair" arguments that you like to employ can be used against you here, because God allowed the pygmy to go through his whole life without having an opportunity to know of the solution for his soul's salvation, as we are blessed to have. Using your logic, since the pygmy knew nothing of the Savior and therefore was *unable* to repent and believe the gospel, and since not doing so is a sin, he was not accountable for this sin. You can try to say that he is still justly condemned for all the others, and I would agree, but how does this fit in? Then you have to conclude that God allowed him to go on in that state in a passive manner without giving him the possibility of being forgiven. I do allow for this myself, and my theology allows for it, but yours doesn't.
You have said before that you heard of Muslims who received personal revelations of Christ and were saved. Do you think that this happens to people who have not been exposed to gospel preaching because of something they did? Because they "responded to the light they were given", were they given this saving knowledge (i.e. they were given initial salvation because of their obedience)? Or does God freely reveal Himself to those whom He chooses? Within your theology, if God does this to some people, and He is supposedly seeking the highest good of all people, then why doesn't He do it for everyone?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 26, 2007 16:44:35 GMT -5
A person who has never heard of Christ has no knowledge of Christ and no ability to come to Christ, and therefore will not be judged or condemned for not coming to Christ. Accountability never exceeds the limits of knowledge and ability.
A man is only condemned for rebelling against the knowledge that he has, when he had the ability of obeying the knowledge that he had.
But if they have a conscience, they will be judged and condemned for the violation of the knowledge that they did have.
A person who chooses to lie had the ability of telling the truth.
A person who chooses to commit adultery had the ability of remaining pure.
A person who chooses to murder had the ability of letting the other live.
And if they knew it was wrong to lie, commit adultery, and murder, they will be judged by that knowledge.
So their accountability will be in accordance with their knowledge and with their ability.
But certainly, a person who has no knowledge of Christ, and no ability to come to Christ, will not be condemned for His lack of knowledge and for His lack of ability. But he will be judged according to His ability and according to His knowledge. All men will be condemned for choosing darkness over the light that they had.
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Ps. A sinner who has never heard of Christ has absolutely no way of having his sins forgiven. But he still must be condemned, because His ignorance of Christ does not overcome the fact that He knew right from wrong morally, and choose to do what He knew from His own conscience was wrong. But a person without the knowledge of Christ has no possible option of having his past sins forgiven.
So we must send missionaries to the sinners in other countries, who knew it was wrong to sin but did it anyways, who had the ability to obey the knowledge that they had but didn't. We must reach those sinners with the knowledge of Christ, or there is no way for their rebellion to be pardoned.
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Post by sean on May 27, 2007 9:21:59 GMT -5
I have seen this assertion made over and over again here, but it has never been backed up. Please cite your source for this information. Frankly, I don't believe you. Yes...Jessie, could you post your sources and quotes for what you believe the early church fathers believed on this subject?
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Post by Kerrigan on May 27, 2007 13:29:49 GMT -5
Here you go Sean...
• Justin Martyr of the Early Church said, “Every created being is so constituted as to be capable of vice and virtue. For he can do nothing praiseworthy, if he had not the power of turning either way.” And “unless we suppose man has the power to choose the good and refuse the evil, no one can be accountable for any action whatever.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 61, published by Truth in Heart) • Tertullian of the same century said, “No reward can be justly bestowed, no punishment can be justly inflicted, upon him who is good or bad by necessity, and not by his own choice.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 61, published by Truth in Heart) • Origen said, “The soul does not incline to either part out of necessity, for then neither vice nor virtue could be ascribed to it; nor would its choice of virtue deserve reward; nor its declination to vice punishment.” Again, “How could God require that of man which he [man] had not power to offer Him?” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 62, published by Truth in Heart) • Augustine said, “They that would not come [to Christ], ought not to impute it to another, but only to themselves, because, when they are called, it was in the power of their free will to come.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 63, published by Truth in Heart) • Clement of Alexandria said, “Neither promises nor apprehensions, rewards, no punishments are just if the soul has not the power of choosing and abstaining; if evil is involuntary.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 63, published by Truth in Heart) • Jerome said, “God has bestowed us with free will. We are not necessarily drawn either to virtue or vice. For when necessity rules, there is no room left either for d**nation or the crown.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 62, published by Truth in Heart) • Tertullian said, “In pursuance of that aspect of the association of body and soul that we now have to consider, we maintain that the puberty of the soul coincides with that of the body. Generally speaking, they both attain together this full growth at about the fourteenth year of life. The soul attains it by the suggestion of the senses, and the body attains it by the growth of the bodily members. I do not mention [the age of fourteen] because reflection begins at that age (as Asclepiades supposes). Nor do I choose it because the civil laws date the commencement of the real business of life from this age. Rather, I choose it because this was the appointed order from the very first. For after their obtaining knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve felt that they must cover their nakedness. Likewise, we profess to have the same discernment of good and evil from the time that we experience the same sensation of shame. Now, beginning with the aforementioned age, sex is suffused and clothed with a special sensibility. This eye gives way to lust and communicates its pleasure to another. It understands the natural relations between male and female, and it wears the fig-leaf apron to cover the shame that it still excites.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 7, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Justin Martyr said, “The human race…from Adam had fallen under the power of death and the guile of the serpent. Each one had committed personal transgression.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 271, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Justin Martyr said, “The whole human race will be found to be under a curse. For it is written in the Law of Moses, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the Law and do them.’ And no one has accurately done them all.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 271, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Irenaeus said, “By means of our first parents, we were all brought into bondage by being made subject to death.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 271, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Justin Martyr said, “In the beginning, He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 271, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Justin Martyr said, “Let some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever occurs happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Now, if this is not so, but all things happen by fate, then neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it is predetermined that this man will be good, and this other man will be evil, neither is the first one meritorious nor the latter man to be blamed. And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 271, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Justin Martyr said, “I have proved in what has been said that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault. Rather, each man is what he will appear to be through his own fault.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Tatian said, “We were not created to die. Rather, we die by our own fault. Our free will has destroyed us. We who were free have become slaves. We have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God. We ourselves have manifested wickedness. But we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it.” (c.160, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Melito said, “There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner to life, because you are a free man.” (c.170, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Theophilus said, “If, on the other hand, he would turn to the things of death, disobeying God, he would himself be the cause of death to himself. For God made man free, and with power of himself.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Irenaeus said, “But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect similar to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself his own cause that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Irenaeus said, “’Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds’…And ‘Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?’…All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man…For it is in man’s power to disobey God and to forfeit what is good.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Clement of Alexandria said, “We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Clement of Alexandria said, “Each one of us who sins with his own free will, chooses punishment. So the blame lies with him who chooses. God is without blame.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Clement of Alexandria said, “To obey or not is in our own power, provided we do not have the excuse of ignorance.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers) • Tertullian said, “I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and power…For a law would not be imposed upon one who did not have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, if a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will…Man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance. (c.207, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 288, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
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Post by sean on May 27, 2007 16:07:10 GMT -5
How free was Sauls will? I see Saul making decisions on his own but He was really doing what the Lord had already decided. Look at this example:
10 Then Saul said to his servant, “Well said; come, let us go.” So they went to the city where the man of God was.
15 Now the LORD had told Samuel in his ear the day before Saul came, saying, 16 “Tomorrow about this time I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin,and you shall anoint him commander over My people Israel, that he may save My people from the hand of the Philistines; for I have looked upon My people, because their cry has come to Me.”
So Saul was going of his own "free-will"....but only in Sauls eyes. He was going because the Lord had sent him.
So exactly how free is Sauls "free-will"?
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Post by danlirette on May 27, 2007 16:27:57 GMT -5
Man is totally BLIND: "I tell you the truth, no one CAN SEE the kingdom of God unless he is born again" (John 3:3)
Man cannot UNDERSTAND spiritual things: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (I Cor 2:14).
Man cannot HEAR: "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word" (John 8:43).
Man cannot OBEY: "without me you can do NOTHING." (John 15:5)
The only thing a lost person can do is choose between sins; he cannot choose between himself and God.
Man must be Regenerated by the Holy Ghost to obey God, serve God and keep God's commands.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 27, 2007 17:17:18 GMT -5
PITY PARTY OR A REBUKE?
How do you read these scriptures? As a pity party, or as a deserved rebuke?
Mt 13:15 - For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Ac 28:27 - For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Is this not clearly a deserved rebuke, not a pity party?
Jesus did not rebuke the blind for not seeing, but rebuked the seeing for not seeing! Jesus did not rebuke the deaf for not hearing, but the hearing for not hearing! They closed their own eyes. They refused to listen with their own ears!
They had eyes, but refused to see the truth. They had ears, but refused to hear the truth. It was not that they didn't have eyes, or that they didn't have ears, that is to say, that they didn't have the ability to hear and the ability to see, but that they were unwilling!!! They had the ability, that is, they had the eyes and the ears needed. But they were not willing!!
You cannot personally see New Zealand unless you personally go there by boat or by plane. You must purchase a ticket.
And you cannot personally see The Kingdom of God, unless you are born again, unless you pay the required price.
Only Christians will see Heaven, because only Christians are on their way to Heaven.
Yes, they must go from being natural to being spiritual, but this will not happen against their free-will. They must personally yeild and consent.
Spiritual things are discerned only by the Spiritual, obviously. But the whole question is, what keeps sinners back from being converted? Does God keep them back? Does their constitution or inability keep them back? Or do they themselves keep themselves back?
Obviously it is not God, for God does not will that any should perish, and now that Jesus has been lifted up He draws all men unto Himself.
Obviously it is not their constitution or inability, as God only requires that which is possible, as my article clearly proved.
It must be then the will of man that keeps them back from being converted unto Christ.
Men who will not hear God's word cannot hear God's word. The only reason people cannot be saved, is because they are unwilling to be saved.
We wouldn't have a free will if God didn't give us one. We couldn't obey God, or disobey God, if God didn't give us a free will. A Creator is a prerequisite to creation. A Giver is a prerequisite to a gift. And so God is a prerequisite to free-will.
Where in the bible is regeration represented as anything but a moral change? Never, in all of scripture, is regeneration represented as the reception of any new faculty, in the reception of a free-will. Not a single scripture says that regeneration is when God gives man a free will. Rather, regeneration is a moral change, not a constitutional change.
Regeneration and conversion are synonomous terms, but one emphasis the work of the Spirit, while the other the work of the individual.
Why then does Paul appeal to the free will of unregenerated men to be reconciled unto God?
2Co 5:20 - "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beg you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."
Here, we are told that Paul previously begged the Corinthians to be reconciled unto God. Paul was referencing the time before they were reconciled unto God obviously. But why would Paul beg a sinner to do what he was unable to do?
Why does God appeal to the free will of unregenerate sinners to be converted?
“Choose you this day whom ye will serve;” Joshua 24:15
“Wash yourself, make yourself clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be read like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: but if refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.” Isaiah 1:16-20
“Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:6-7
“Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground.” Hosea 10:12
“Turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.” Ezekiel 18:30
“Cast away from you all your transgressions…..make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit” Ezekiel 18:31
“For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.” Ezekiel 18:32
“Return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.” Jeremiah 18:11
“Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; and the Lord will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.” Jeremiah 26:13
“Save yourselves from his untoward generation.” Act 2:40
“God… commands all men every where to repent” Acts 17:30
“Ye have obeyed from the heart” Romans 6:17
“Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh” 1Corinthians 7:1
“If any man therefore purge himself” 2Timothy 2:21
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.” James 4:2
“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded.” James 4:8
“Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep; let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.” James 4:9
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord” James 4:10
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth” 1Peter 1:22
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelations 22:17
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 27, 2007 17:24:22 GMT -5
I have yet to see anyone actually refute the arguements presented in the article.
Those of you who disagree with the position that sinners are capable to obey God and be converted to Jesus but are unwilling to obey God and be converted to Jesus, do you have any thoughts or rebuttals for the actual arguements presented in the article?
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Post by Kerrigan on May 27, 2007 18:06:27 GMT -5
I have yet to see anyone actually refute the arguements presented in the article. Those of you who disagree with the position that sinners are capable to obey God and be converted to Jesus but are unwilling to obey God and be converted to Jesus, do you have any thoughts or rebuttals for the actual arguements presented in the article? That's exactly what I would like to know...
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Post by sean on May 27, 2007 18:40:48 GMT -5
I have yet to see anyone actually refute the arguements presented in the article. Those of you who disagree with the position that sinners are capable to obey God and be converted to Jesus but are unwilling to obey God and be converted to Jesus, do you have any thoughts or rebuttals for the actual arguements presented in the article? 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 31, 2007 13:28:49 GMT -5
Joh 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Acts 17:30 - now commandeth all men every where to repent:
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Post by sean on May 31, 2007 14:27:04 GMT -5
So how do you understand John 12:32 in light of John 6:37?
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
Jesus says that all the Father gives Him will come to Him. So what's happening to the "all" that Jesus is drawing? Why are they not ALL coming? Jesus says if that Father is giving them to Him they will come?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 31, 2007 14:29:52 GMT -5
The Father only gives to Jesus those who voluntarily repent and believe. And those who voluntarily repent and believe, the Father gives to the Son.
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Post by blynn on Jun 1, 2007 6:31:06 GMT -5
I agree on all points except for one. I believe God knows those who are His before they ever choose Him or reject Him.
If God did not know those who would be saved and there was NO CALLING on their life and that they are just as capable as you and me of repenting than what than does their salvation depend upon?
Do they have to be smart, intellectual, poor, rich, good upbringing, moral in a wordly sense of the word? Is it a matter of being at the right place at the right time? Right church service at the right time with the right pastor preaching? A good sermon?
Another words what does the salvation of those who are just as capable as you and me of repenting depend upon?
If they do not repent than what is that TIME AND CHANCE?
Wouldn't that than make God into an unrighteous God?
The point I am trying to make here is that these are MONSTERS OF INIQUITY and they do not want the light and will not come to the light because they love their sin and they want to stay in it.
Preach as though you were preaching to a group of people out there who want to be saved, don't know how to be saved, want the gosple, lost, confused and just need answers.
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Post by dmatic on Jul 6, 2007 12:45:29 GMT -5
I finally got through reading this good thread. Thanks! Sean, I believe, is trying to make a good point too.
It is evident that salvation begins and ends in God. No one can simply "choose" to be "saved" of their own "free" will. But, thank God, our salvation does not depend upon our choice, but rather on His!
No one can come to the Son unless the father "drag" him. It is God who works within us to "will" and to do of His good purpose. When He chooses to move on us to come to His Son, He inspires us within ourselves...to seek repentance...after He has convinced us of sin and our need for the washing!
Peace, dmatic
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 12, 2007 13:09:33 GMT -5
In John 12:32 ALL MEN are drawn, but not ALL will come unless they have a will to come.
In Revelation 22:17 WHOSOEVER WILL, And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
John 6:37 ALL that the Father giveth me shall come to me; The Father knows beforehand who will come to Jesus and repent. The Father LOVES ALL as in John 3:16. He loves every sinner, whoever they are, wherever they are. Even in the jungles of Africa who have never heard.
Those who have never heard in these remote places are still drawn by the Father, ALL. They will have NO EXCUSE the bible says in Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Godhead: Godhood, divinity, deity
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Dec 10, 2007 13:16:37 GMT -5
More Quotes from the Early Church on the doctrine of freewill:
Clement said, “Neither praise nor condemnation, neither reward no punishments, are right if the soul does not have the power of choice and avoidance, if evil is involuntary.” (Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, by David Bercot, pg 71, printed by Scroll Publishings)
Archelaus said, “All the creatures that God made, He made very good. And He gave to every individual the sense of free will, by which standard He also instituted the law of judgment… And certainly whoever will, may keep the commandments. Whoever despises them and turns aside to what is contrary to them, shall yet without doubt have to face this law of judgment… There can be no doubt that every individual, in using his own proper power of will, may shape his course in whatever direction he pleases.” (Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, by David Bercot, pg 71, printed by Scroll Publishings)
Origen said, "It is our responsibility to live righteously. God asks this of us, not as though it were dependent on Him, nor on any other, or upon fate (as some think), but as being dependent on us... We have freedom of the will and that we ourselves are the cause of our own ruin or our salvation." (Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, by David Bercot, pg 74, printed by Scroll Publishings)
Melito said, “There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner to life, because you are a free man.” (c.170, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Irenaeus said, “But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect similar to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself his own cause that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 286, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Irenaeus said, “’Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds’…And ‘Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?’…All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man…For it is in man’s power to disobey God and to forfeit what is good.” (c.180, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Clement of Alexandria said, “We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Clement of Alexandria said, “Each one of us who sins with his own free will, chooses punishment. So the blame lies with him who chooses. God is without blame.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Clement of Alexandria said, “To obey or not is in our own power, provided we do not have the excuse of ignorance.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Tertullian said, “I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and power…For a law would not be imposed upon one who did not have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, if a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will…Man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance. (c.207, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 288, published by Hendrickson Publishers)
Pelagius said, “Whenever I have to speak on the subject of moral instruction and conduct of a holy life, it is my practice first to demonstrate the power and quality of human nature and to show what it is capable of achieving, and then to go on to encourage the mind of my listener to consider the idea of different kinds of virtues, in case it may be of little or no profit to him to be summoned to pursue ends which he has perhaps assumed hitherto to be beyond his reach; for we can never end upon the path of virtue unless we have hope as our guide and compassion…any good of which human nature is capable has to be revealed, since what is shown to be practicable must be put into practice.” (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 36-37, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "It was because God wished to bestow on the rational creature the gift of doing good of his own free will and the capacity to exercise free choice, by implanting in man the possibility of choosing either alternative...he could do either quite naturally and then bend his will in the other direction too. He could not claim to possess the good of his own volition, unless he was the kind of creature that could also have possessed evil. Our most excellent creature wished us to be able to do either but actually to do only one, that is, good, which he also commanded, giving us the capacity to do evil only so that we might do His will by exercising our own. That being so, this very capacity to do evil is also good - good, I say, because it makes the good part better by making it voluntary and independent, not boud by necessity but free to decide for itself." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 38, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "Those who are unwilling to correct their own way of life appear to want to correct nature itself instead." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 39, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "And lest, on the other hand, it should be thought to be nature's fault that some have been unrighteous, I shall use the evidence of the scripture, which everywhere lay upon sinners the heavy weight of the charge of having used their own will and do not excuse them for having acted only under constraint of nature." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 43, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "Yet we do not defend the good of nature to such an extent that we claim that it cannot do evil, since we undoubtedly declare also that it is capable of good and evil; we merely try to protect it from an unjust charge, so that we may not seem to be forced to do evil through a fault of our nature, when, in fact, we do neither good nor evil without the exercise of our will and always have the freedom to do one of the two, being always able to do either." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 43, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "Nothing impossible has been commanded by the God of justice and majesty...Why do we indulge in pointless evasions, advancing the grailty of our own nature as an objectionto the one who commands us? No one knows better the true measure of our strength than he who has given it to us nor does anyone understand better how much we are able to do than he who has given us this very capacity of ours to be able; nor has he who is just wished to command anything impossible or he who is good intended to condemn a man for doing what he could not avoid doing." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 53-54, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "Grace indeed freely discharges sins, but with the consent and choice of the believer." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 92, published by The Boydell Press)
Pelagius said, "Obedience results from a decision of the mind, not the substance of the body." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 90, published by The Boydell Press)
An unknown Early Christian, "Is it possible then possible for a man not to sin? Such a claim is indeed a hard one and a bitter pill for sinners to swallow; it pains the ears of all who desire to live unrighteous. Who will find it easy now to fulfil the demands of righteousness, when there are some who find it hard even to listen to them?" An unknown Pelagian (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 167, published by The Boydell Press)
An unknown Early Christian, "When will a man guilty of any crime or sin accept with a tranquil mind that his wickedness is a product of his own will, not of necessity, and allow what he now strives to attribute to nature to be ascribed to his own free choice? It affords endless comfort to transgressors of the divine law if they are able to believe that their failure to do something is due to inability rather then disinclination, since they understand from their natural wisdom that no one can be judged for failing to do the impossible and that what is justifiable on grounds of impossibility is either a small sin or none at all." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 167-168, published by The Boydell Press)
An unknown Early Christian, "Under the plea that it is impossible not to sin, they are given a false sense of security in sinning...Anyone who hears that it is not possible for him to be without sin will not even try to be what he judges to be impossible, and the man who does not try to be without sin must perforce sin all the time, and all the more boldly because he enjoys the false security of believing that it is impossible for him not to sin...But if he were to hear that he is able not to sin, then he would have exerted himself to fulfil what he now knows to be possible when he is striving to fulfil it, to achieve his purpose for the most part, even if not entirely." (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 168, published by The Boydell Press)
An unknown Early Christian, "Consider first whether that which is such that a man cannot be without it ought to be described as sin at all; for everything which cannot be avoided is now put down to nature but it is impious to say that sin is inherent in nature, because in this way the author of nature is being judged at fault… how can it be proper to call sin by that name if, like other natural things, it cannot be avoided, since all sin is to be attributed to the free choice of the will, not to the defects of nature?" (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, pg 168-169, published by The Boydell Press)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 8, 2008 16:43:08 GMT -5
“All the Fathers…agreed with the Pelagians in attributing free will to man.” Dr Wiggers (The Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 60)
John Calvin admitted that “The Greek fathers above others” have taught “the power of the human will.” (An Equal Check to Pharsaism and Antinomianism by John Fletcher, Volume Two, pg 202, Published by Carlton & Porter
And Calvin also said, “The Latin fathers have always retained the word free will…” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 60, published by Truth in Heart)
“What is plainer than that the ancient divines, for three hundred years after Christ, those at least who flourished before St. Augustine, maintained the liberty of our will, or an indifference to two contrary things, free from all internal and external necessity!” Episcopius (An Equal Check to Pharisaism and Antinomianism by John Fletcher, Volume Two, pg 209, Published by Carlton & Porter)
Asa Mahan said that free will “was the doctrine of the primitive church for the first four or five centuries after the Bible was written, the church which received the ‘lively oracles’ directly from the hands of some of those by whom they were written, to wit: the writers of the New Testament. It should be borne in mind here, that at the time the sacred canon was completed, the doctrine of Necessity was held by the leading sects in the Jewish Church. It was also the fundamental article of the creed of all the sects in philosophy throughout the world, as well as of all the forms of heathenism then extant. If the doctrine of Necessity, as its advocates maintain, is the doctrine taught the church by inspired apostles and the writers of the New Testament, we should not fail to find, under such circumstances, the churches planted by them, rooted and grounded in this doctrine.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, pg 59, published by Truth in Heart) Rather, we find that the Early Church affirmed free will while the Gnostic heretics denied it and affirmed a slaved will through a totally corrupted nature.
David Bercot, an expert on early Christian beliefs said, “The Early Christians didn’t believe that man is totally depraved [totally unable] and incapable of doing any good. They taught that humans are capable of obeying and loving God.” (Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, pg 64, published by Scroll Publishings)
David Bercot also said, “There was a religious group, labeled as heretics by the early Christians… they taught that man is totally depraved [totally unable]… the group I’m referring to are the Gnostics.” (Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, pg 66, published by Scroll Publishings)
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bob
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 1:18:37 GMT -5
ARE WE, "To be responsible or obligated to do better, and" ARE WE, "to be accountable or judged for failure to do better, AND DOES THIS MEAN, "one must be capable of doing better."
YES! JESUS SAID, "BE YE PERFECT."
"GIVE to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you,
LOVE
your enemies,
BLESS
them that curse you,
DO GOOD
to them that hate you, and
PRAY
for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may
BE THE CHILDREN OF YOUR FATHER
which is in heaven: for
HE [God the Father]
MAKETH HIS SUN TO RISE
on the evil and on the good,
AND SENDETH RAIN
on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:42--48)
GIVE...LOVE...BLESS...DO GOOD
"For God so loved the world,
[The world so thankless and stained with sin] that he gave
[like the new rising sun and the fresh falling rain]
his only begotten Son,
[THE BEST THERE IS TO GIVE] that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
You can't give what God gave, but you can give what He gave you LOVE...BLESS...DO GOOD BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT
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bob
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 12:26:39 GMT -5
"This is a theological treatise on the required conditions of moral accountability or the prerequisites of moral agency, along with their necessary connection to the extent of moral obligation and the proper measure of moral guilt."
Jesse: I think this section of Christ's teaching applies to the subject of free will & conscience.
MATTHEW 19:16--30
16 "And, behold, ONE CAME AND SAID UNTO HIM, Good Master, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS, GOD: [YOU CAN’T BE GOD]
but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS [THAT YOU CAN DO].
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, ALL THESE THINGS HAVE I KEPT from my youth up: what lack I yet?
IF THOU WILT BE PERFECT [YOU CAN BE PERFECT], go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and COME AND FOLLOW ME.
22 BUT when the young man heard that saying, HE WENT AWAY SORROWFUL for he had great possessions.
23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?
26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE; [YOU CAN’T SAVE YOURSELF]
but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. [ONLY GOD CAN SAVE YOU]
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, WE HAVE FORSAKEN ALL, and followed thee; [WE’VE DONE WHAT YOU TOLD US TO DO] what shall we have therefore?
28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That YE WHICH HAVE FOLLOWED ME [IN OBEDIENCE], in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, YE ALSO SHALL SIT UPON TWELVE THRONES, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken [EVERYTHING] houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, [BEING OBEDIENT TO ME] shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life [GOD WILL SAVE YOU BY HIS GRACE];
BUT MANY THAT ARE FIRST [AND WILFULLY DISOBEDIENT] SHALL BE LAST;
and the last [WHO ARE WILLINGLY OBEDIENT] shall be first."
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hillc55
New Member
Gal 2:20
Posts: 3
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Post by hillc55 on Apr 24, 2008 17:52:18 GMT -5
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds...AND...Why do you call me Lord, Lord and NOT do the things that I say? The Lord Jesus made it clear the Will of Man is INDEPENDENT and FREE!(Amen) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do no do well, SIN lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but YOU SHOULD RULE OVER IT. *This verse was recorded AFTER the Fall of Man* God's decree to mankind that SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU!(Romans6:14) God be thanked, that though you WERE slaves of sin, YOU OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine to which you were delivered? (Free-Will...YEA!!!)(Romans 6:17) Therefore lay aside ALL filthiness and overflow of wickedness and RECEIVE with meekness the implanted WORD, which is able to SAVE YOUR SOULS. Be DOERS of the WORD, and NOT hearers only, deceiving your selves. (James 1:21-22) How do you lay aside ALL filthiness and wickedness and RECEIVE the WORD OF GOD to the SAVING of the SOUL with out Free-AGENCY? Furthermore, how could you become a DOER of the WORD IF the Will is not Free? (Lk8:13) Jesus taught in Matthew 7:24-27: A) WHOEVER (ANYONE) ALL who HEAR His WORDS and DOETH them is a WISE MAN. B) WHOEVER (ANYONE) ALL who HEAR His WORDS and DOETH NOT THEM is a FOOLISH MAN. They BOTH heard his words....the DIFFERENCE to Jesus is WAS WHAT THEY DID with what they HEARD!!! (Please note the results of their ACTIONS!) Jesus said,"My Mother and My brothers are these who HEAR the word of God and DO IT!!!" (Lk 8:21) What must you DO according to Jesus to inherit ETERNAL LIFE? "STRIVE to enter through the NARROW GATE, for MANY, I say to you, will seek to enter an will NOT be able." (Lk13:24)(Mt 7:13-15) Deny your self, take up Cross and follow Jesus..or your NOT WORTHY OF JESUS!!! (Mt 10:38) You must ENDURE till the END to be SAVED! (Mt10:22) Jesus asks the question,"Why do you call me Lord, Lord and NOT DO the things I say" "From that time many of His disciples WITHDREW and FOLLOWED HIM NO MORE!!! (Jn6:66)(Man is FREE to choose) Jesus teachings are based on mans FREE WILL to choose write or wrong, vice or virtue, yea or nea, obey or NOT obey! NOTE: (WHY DO YOU THINK THE MODERN DAY CHURCH HATES THE JESUS OF THE SCRIPTURES AND ABIDES OUTSIDE OF HIS DOCTRINE)(1Tim6:3-5)(2John9)THINK!!! The Bible says in John 6:44, "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." The same word "draw" is used in John 12:32 which says, "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth will draw ALL men unto myself." Matthew 23:37 says that men can resist God's will. Remember, God wants NONE to PERISH, but ALL to come to REPENTANCE. (2Pet3:9) Hence, YOUR CHOICE TO CHOOSE LIFE OR DEATH! IF nothing thwarts the will of God, and IF you have also have said that a MANS WILL cannot be FREE or else God would not be absolutely sovereign. Doesn't this mean that God determines (or is the cause of) evil and the evil acts of men for his sovereign pleasure? Even though God does perfectly know all human thoughts, can man have thoughts that have never been thought before (i.e. ex-nihilo thoughts)? If these thoughts are not free (e.g., they are determined) then has God caused all thoughts, including evil ones, which would make God the author of sin and evil and man not responsible? If, on the other hand, these thoughts are free, then how can God remain sovereign according to the Calvinistic, Augustinian or heathen point of view-- who REJECT FREE-WILL and hold that definition of sovereignty? THE HIPPO of AUGUSTINE: This so called Bishop was a VERY STRANGE and DECEIVED man...He was a mix between a 5 POINT CALVINIST and a ROMAN CATHOLIC!!! (No Joke!) Augustine was CONVERTED to Christianity from the religion of Manicheanism. They STRESS that the spirit was God-created, while the FLESH is CORRUPT and EVIL, since it had NOT been created DIRECTLY by God. This is where Total Depravity comes from, it’s NOT from the Prophets, Christ or the Apostles. Why people continue to try to Prove the OLD TESTAMENT teaches this is in Error. The Jews to this day REJECT this teaching! Augustine doctrine that humans go to Hell for doing what they could not avoid (SIN) is the same teaching of the Manichean—Fatalism and Predestination, IT TAKES AWAY ALL MANS FREE WILL! Thus Augustine had to create IRRESISTABLE GRACE, LIMITED ATONEMENT, ETERNAL SECURITY! Augustine is responsible for the doctrines of ORIGINAL SIN and DIVINE GRACE…HE CREATED THEM! This FALSE TEACHING was systematically put forth by JOHN CALVIN!!! That's it!!! Same teaching, myths and lies!!! PROBLEM: This has ROOTS in Gnostic Philosophy! Gnostics taught that Christ only appeared to have a body, but DID NOT really have one—AND—the DEEDS we do with our bodies, (WHICH ARE INHERENTLY EVIL) cannot contaminate our SOULS (WHICH ARE INHERENTLY GOOD)... The Apostle John wrote his first two Epistles (1Jn & 2Jn) against the teaching of Gnosticism!!! This is who John was writing against. He told them,” HE WHO SINS IS OF THE DEVIL!” (1Jn3:8) Do you think John believed in this NON-SENSE? NO WAY! Notice, he makes it CLEAR that CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH! (Jn1,1Jn4:2-3,1Jn2:22-23,) He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does NOT OBEY the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (Jn3:36) Do you think he directed this text to the Gnostics, “The one who says,’ I have come to know Him,’ and DOES NOT keep His commandments is a LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM!”(1Jn2:4) Christ says IF you LOVE me you Will Keep my Commandments and IF you keep my commandments you will abide in my Love; just as I have kept My fathers commandments and abide in His love.(Jn15:10) He who HEARS my WORDS and DOES them, CHRIST TAUGHT, Why…BECAUsE CHRIST LEFT US AN EXAMPLE to FOLLOW!(JN13:15) Peter says,” For you have been called for this PURPOSE, since Christ also SUFFERED for YOU, LEAVING YOU AND EXAMPLE for you to FOLLOW in His footsteps! (1Peter2:21) Believing the Lie that MEN are born SINNERS (No Free-Will) and INCAPABLE of choosing to OBEY God, you Err! 2 Quick Verses: [Jesus] who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, taking on the form of a bond servant, and coming in the LIKENESS OF MEN. And being found in the APPEARANCE OF MAN, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. (Philippians 2:6-8) For we DO NOT have a High Priest who CANNOT sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED as we are, yet WITHOUT SIN. (Hebrews 4:15) If you HOLD to the MYTH that men are born sinners with a SIN NATURE and without a FREE WILL to choose VICE or VIRTUE...Please understand it is a serious error to deny the deity of Christ. One cannot be a Christian and deny his deity. John taught that it is equally serious to deny the humanity of Christ in 1Jn and 2Jn. God created Men and Women Free for His own pleasure. "You are WORTHY, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power. For You created all things. And because of your will they existed, and were created." (Revelation 4:11) YOU must make yourself READY for the MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB, by OBEYING God with your FREE-WILL! " Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His WIFE (US) has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS." Then he said to me,"Write: Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!" And he said to me, "THESE ARE THE TRUE SAYINGS OF GOD." If the doctrine of original sin is true, one of two things must be true: either Jesus was born a sinner, or he was not a man. Now, the Bible is clear on both points. Jesus was a man, and he was without sin. We know, therefore, that the doctrine of original sin cannot be true. It is a myth and a lie. Just as a heathen belief that MAN HAS NO FREE -WILL!!! Grace and peace be Multiplied to you in the knowledge of our Lord, Jesus Christ. video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2324010127149031279CH "Obedience RESULTS from a decision of the mind, not the substance of the body" (Pelagius)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 24, 2008 21:12:11 GMT -5
A much more thorough edition of "Free Will & Conscience" can be found here: www.libraryoftheology.com/freewillwritings.html-------------------------------------------------- hillc55, Glad that you joined the boards and thanks for posting. I agree with you 100%. Original sin is rooted in Gnostic teachings. And original sin is contrary to free will. Since God is the author of our constitution, God creates us with free will not original sin.
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