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Post by Jules on Feb 1, 2007 22:39:49 GMT -5
Pam Forster has written the best book on submission, better than Created to be His Helpmate even. But I'd recommed that as well.
No commentary, just scripture and hard hitting questions, then the Holy Spirit jumps all over you and really have to examine yourself. Not an easy read, but a needed one for all women. It's very humbling. And rewarding. To give you a hint of her stlye, she asks women to make a list of all the qualities they want in a husband if they are single, or all the things they would like to see in their husband if they are already married. Then she says to go to the Word and find Biblical support for each quality, not reading into scripture or taking things out of context. If you can't find scriptural support, then scratch that item off your list, confess your sin of unbiblical expectation of your husband, and repent.
Man! Isn't that hard hitting??! I love it....and you will too, because it is totally Biblical.
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Post by shetani on Feb 1, 2007 23:34:49 GMT -5
This is exactly why I will never become a Krischun. Ever.
Yo Jules, what if I'm smarter than my superior husband? Should I check my genome in case I happen to be genotypically XY?
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Post by Jules on Feb 3, 2007 13:23:37 GMT -5
Shetani - what do you mean by smarter? Are you wiser in ALL things, ALL the time, in every situation? DO you never need the counsel, help or leadership of anyone in your life? I'm not just speaking of marriage relationships here.
People need other people in their lives, we were created with a need for relationships with others, even if it isn't marriage. Being smarter doesn't imply you are somehow not vulnerable or are all sufficient. I guess I don't know what you mean by smarter: more experience? more education? better vocabulary? you've read more books? you came from a better family? what exactly makes one smarter than another by your definition?
my question would be to you: how does one become wise? And how are wisdom, knowledge and understanding related?
THe very fact that women were created as helpmates doesn't imply their inferiority to men, but really implies an insufficiency on the part of men that they NEED a helper. But women always look at in in the negative towards themselves only. The truth is, we are ALL lacking and in need, we are all insufficient in many ways by ourselves.
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Post by victorialewis on Feb 3, 2007 13:49:54 GMT -5
Excellent post, Jules. You have spoken truth into the ears of our young miss.
Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
This, of course, goes for women (young and old) as well.
Thanks again, Jules.
BTW, is "As Unto the Lord" the title?
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Post by Jules on Feb 3, 2007 17:42:40 GMT -5
yes, the title is "As Unto the Lord" you can probably find it on half.com or ebay. It probably won't have many bids, since it is such a hard study...I mean, who really (apart from the Spirit) wants to learn about submission? It is very hard, pray for a teachable spirit. But you will most certainly be blessed by it.
They are writing one now for young men who are single in preparation for marriage. But all the things they sugggest based on scripture are still beneficial even if you are never married. I read As Unto the Lord and am single. But it really made me realize how worldy my expectations still were for a husband. It's hard and takes time to break free from years of being fed unbiblical teaching, but it is possible.
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Post by shetani on Feb 3, 2007 18:42:23 GMT -5
Shetani - what do you mean by smarter? Are you wiser in ALL things, ALL the time, in every situation? DO you never need the counsel, help or leadership of anyone in your life? I solve my own problems, darling. I sure as hell need counsel in rough times, but believe me, I depend on absolutely no one. Am I smarter than you? Absolutely. I am better educated, more intelligent, and twice as cunning as anyone here, sans Val, Cerv, and Morluna. Put simply - I refuse to be your 'helpmate'. I am your equal. Under no conditions will I submit to a man. I won't dedicate myself to 'feminine' work, nor will I stay home and concentrate on poppin' Krischun babies out. I will have a career, I will be a scientist, and I am as intelligent or more so than any man. No knitting, cookie bakin', or submissive feminine prayin' here.
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Post by deltadom on Feb 3, 2007 21:04:51 GMT -5
1Co 1:27 - Show Context But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
This is a complex issue with the Help Meet as the bible and needs almost a whole thread!!! but if god has given you a gift but you will only really learn true happiness by submiting to the saviour.
Joh 15:13 - Show Context Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jesus layed down his life for you so that you may not have any sin.
In the bible , Jesus calls the church his bride!!! The problem is because you are thinking in a western , hollywood mind set. Jesus layed down his life for us , we lay our lives down for you!!
The marvel of the Lord laying his life down, makes us want to submit to him and in love our wives in a loving way as Christ submited himself to the cross as lay down his life for us.
The ironic thing by the very nature of being feminist you are actually glorifying man. Think about it !!! Babies make a women a women.
The word womb-man, by being a feminist rather than glorifying the differences, you want to become the same as man. Which is not possible? God made a tree but if a tree desided I dont like being a tree , I want to be a butterfly. The tree would have a big problem being a butterfly it can't grow wings and fly but its inner soul is always being a tree. If that tree was thankful for being a tree and glorifyied in being a tree and loved being a tree it would blossom every year and give glorius fruit.
God loves you the way you are by being a christian and knowing your creator you become more feminine rather than less feminine.
I have just come back from India and in India they wear Sari's which make the women look more like women. When I come to England there are lots of girls trying to look like men to me it is more attractive if women look like women, else men get confused. It is the same parable with the Tree and the butterfly. Let your feminine roots flourish rather than try to copy men. To me I love the differences. Isnt it to be thankful that a creator made you exactly how he wanted to make you a scientist and a career person maybe but forget that you have a limited time!!
God is love and if you reject his love!! Your reject love himself. Jesus is your heavenly father where you have been rejected by your real father. God can replace that!!!
Ps 27:10 - Show Context When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
Does not your very nature tell you that without him you are dead.
Ps 14:1 - Show Context The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good
Ps 90:12 - Show Context So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
I depend on absolutely no one You say but you depend on god for the very air you breath, for your health!! for food, For your very life it is god who gave you your very life!!! Is it not possible to give the very one who gave you life to give him some respect and give him your life and repent from your sins and turn to him!! How many days do you have left!!!
Ac 17:28 - Show Context For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
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Post by shetani on Feb 3, 2007 22:08:08 GMT -5
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; So all man-made advances are evil? Does that include medicine, transportation, and electricity? I would love to see you survive a week without those foolish commodities. What about the computer you type your precious widdle diatribes on? Repent, sinner. Anything made by human hands is foolish, after all. we lay our lives down for you!! Nonsense. You want to earn brownie points with da Lawd and provide your widdle Krischun friends with a rousing conversion story. Converting Shetani would be equivalent to killing a lion with a piece of flint, no? Everyone would think of you as such a brave, pious Krischun. I know how your head works, chillun. you want to become the same as man. Bull. I want to be treated as an equal. Is that so much to ask? I want to have a choice between raising children at home and having a career - and if I do choose a career, I want to be celebrated for my accomplishments, not ignored because of my gender. Most of all, I don't want to be trapped in antiquated gender roles. What if don't want to have children? What if I'd rather not bake cookies all day and knit by the fireplace? I wanna play soccer and run experiments, danggit. In short, growing a d!ck is the last thing I want. The ironic thing by the very nature of being feminist you are actually glorifying man. So like, by demanding that I be treated as an equal, I'm glorifying man? I have just come back from India and in India they wear Sari's which make the women look more like women. India is such a wonderful place for women, man. You see, in India, girls can be sold to adult men by their fathers like cattle. Women can be beaten, treated as slaves, or worse, killed. In many parts of the country, women cannot own land, have a paying job, or so much as step outside without a man to accompany them. In short, women are treated like garbage. Somehow, I think you like that idea. When I come to England there are lots of girls trying to look like men to me it is more attractive if women look like women, else men get confused. Because like, girls should dress in whatever way you find attractive. God forbid they have their own tastes, right? You say but you depend on god for the very air you breath, for your health!! for food, And you can prove this?
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Post by deltadom on Feb 3, 2007 22:38:15 GMT -5
I dont think you understood my arguments!! Dom, will I have to put them in such a simple way that even you will understand them!!!
God created you to be a scientist!! I do not want to stray away from that!!
Taste is a very thing created by god if you understood what I said about differences. God created you to be different from everyone else as this Psalm says
The King James Version (Authorized) - Study This Chapter
1 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. 3 Thou compassest F373 my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. 5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth F374 not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance F375 was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, F376 which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! 18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. 19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. 20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: 24 And see if there be any wicked F377 way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
So all man-made advances are evil? Does that include medicine, transportation, and electricity? I would love to see you survive a week without those foolish commodities. What about the computer you type your precious widdle diatribes on? Repent, sinner. Anything made by human hands is foolish, after all.
If god created the laws of physics then why would he be upset if we use everything that he created, is it not stupid to think that we should, our modern commodities our result of knowing the laws of the universe in which we are made including medicine!!
I am talking about mans knowledge of God !! You do not understand the cross and how Jesus died for us!! The knowledge of God is way above the knowledge of man
Isa 55:8 - Show Context For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
That is why it is foolish to rebel against your creator!! This is the knowledge that I am talking about and trying to explain to you. God uses the foolish things because nothing in the human mind wants to deny the existance not only of the creator but also that creator came in Human form to die on a cross for you!! and your sin so that you may repent and have eternal life!! This may be something that you may never understand not unless god reveals it to you!!
Also you have reduced the role of the feminine role down to the American ideal of what a women should be and not a biblical one!! Ask god personally what he wants you to do!! I dare you!! you may be pleasantly suprised!!
India is such a wonderful place for women, man. You see, in India, girls can be sold to adult men by their fathers like cattle. Women can be beaten, treated as slaves, or worse, killed. In many parts of the country, women cannot own land, have a paying job, or so much as step outside without a man to accompany them. In short, women are treated like garbage. Somehow, I think you like that idea.
I have just come back from India and this is not true but I was using this as an example it is also a vast generalisation which you have not proved!! as just coming back from India in the last two weeks, I think I have more say than you do!! In England which is a civilised country things happen women our beaten by there husbands and treated as slaves.
I am just trying to challenge your limited American mindset!!!
You do rely on god , you use your eyes to look at this screen but the god who created your eyes you yet deny!!! The sun is provided by god and the rain
Mt 5:45 - Show Context That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
You are like a mole who will only see when it is too late and have to languish in hell forever and forever without food and without water. A mole only see's when it dies!! Will it take death to realise that you are denying your saviour or will you believe in the saviour that has conquered death!!
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Post by shetani on Feb 3, 2007 23:25:18 GMT -5
You do not understand the cross and how Jesus died for us!! The knowledge of God is way above the knowledge of man I understand that being crucified = death. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary of poor Jayzus staying dead, though. All you have is that ancient text and overused rhetoric to support yourself with. Also you have reduced the role of the feminine role down to the American ideal of what a women should be and not a biblical one!! What? Equality is an American ideal now? I would call it a modern ideal, darling. There are plenty of women in other countries who want to be equal and have careers, you know. Hold up. Duznt da bahble explitictly state that women should be subordinate and silent toward their husbands, and that women were created for men, and not vice versa? That sounds like a sh!tty role to me, man. I would much rather be an independent woman. As for reducing the role of a woman - I would think that thinking of women as intelligent equals is better than as silent, subordinate helpmates. I must be crazy. I have just come back from India and this is not true but I was using this as an example it is also a vast generalisation which you have not proved!! You have got to be fxcking kidding me. Are you attempting to tell me that women are not marginalized and treated like garbage in many parts of India? Are you, in your vast, unchallenged stupidity, telling me that women's rights are not a major issue in India? You, my friend, either: a) Spent your entire trip in touristy, Americanized places, or b) Are a flaming idiot I am just trying to challenge your limited American mindset!!! You're the one who thinks that India is a woman's paradise, dear. A mole only see's when it dies!! Like, when something dies, it like, doesn't see stuff anymore.
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Post by deltadom on Feb 3, 2007 23:43:27 GMT -5
I think you are more like that person who will only see when it is too late!! You have not quoted any journal articles or even statistics or anything to actually prove your arguments!! Jesus loves you and he does not want you to go to hell!!
Ro 2:4 - Show Context Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Without the wisdom of God I dont think you have any possibility of even comprehending or understanding what I am saying!! I think there is no use argueing with someone who does not want to know!! I will leave it to sort it out on Judgement Day!!
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Post by shetani on Feb 3, 2007 23:52:02 GMT -5
You have not quoted any journal articles or even statistics or anything to actually prove your arguments!! www.thp.org/reports/indiawom.htmwww.un.org.in/wii.htmI have this strange feeling that you saw no poverty in India. After all, women and poverty are inexorably linked; you would have been bound to see the mistreatment of women had you been around the poor. Jesus would have chilled with the poor, y'know. Repent! Without the wisdom of God I dont think you have any possibility of even comprehending or understanding what I am saying!!! So I have to join to understand? Sounds like a cult to me. And no, I barely understand a word you say. I would attribute that more to your weak grasp on English than a lack of Jayzus, though.
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Post by deltadom on Feb 4, 2007 0:04:09 GMT -5
Tell me what is the point you are on a Christian Message Blog that promotes the Gospel there our thousands of Forums on the Internet yet you chose this one, why? ,yet you do not want to listen even when someone is being very patient with you as it is very late in the UK where I am from? and trying there best to explain to you? I just want you to pray that is it to Jesus who you think is a good person. Debate with me after that!!
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 4, 2007 0:13:33 GMT -5
deltadom, she is a lil girl who is looking for attention. I stated this in one of my earlier posts. Hopefully though, when she is humbled with hardships of life, she will remember all the words that was spoken to her on this board. I hope so for her salvation.
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Post by shetani on Feb 4, 2007 0:13:38 GMT -5
Tell me what is the point you are on a Christian Message Blog that promotes the Gospel there our I came here because I saw how funny these guys are on YouTube. They're even funnier one-on-one. I just want you to pray that is it to Jesus who you think is a good person. Debate with me after that!! I tried to pray constantly when I was little. No one listened. How do you think I decided to be an atheist, anyway? deltadom, she is a lil girl is is looking for attention. Referring to me as 'lil girl' will only serve to piss me off even further, darling. I do hope the light of some English classes will shine upon you and Dom- especially you, Rhema. I can only imagine the trouble you must go through while attempting to write a ticket. Do you just give up and draw a cross, oh illiterate one?
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 4, 2007 0:17:54 GMT -5
Tell me what is the point you are on a Christian Message Blog that promotes the Gospel there our I came here because I saw how funny these guys are on YouTube. They're even funnier one-on-one. I tried to pray constantly when I was little. No one listened. How do you think I decided to be an atheist, anyway? deltadom, she is a lil girl is is looking for attention. Referring to me as 'lil girl' will only serve to piss me off even further, darling. I do hope the light of some English classes will shine upon you and Dom- especially you, Rhema. I can only imagine the trouble you must go through while attempting to write a ticket. Do you just give up and draw a cross, oh illiterate one? Quit praying and start believing. Catholics pray to the wrong god. Start believing in the right God.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 4, 2007 0:19:16 GMT -5
check my post again, I corrected my spelling. Thanks for noticing though
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Post by shetani on Feb 4, 2007 0:21:51 GMT -5
Catholics pray to the wrong god. Start believing in the right God. I sho' tried, man. I even ran around shrieking 'JESUS!' in a backyard once. I was like, seven. Btw, you and the Catholics are exactly alike. Same holier-than-thou attitude, same overconfidence, same hatred, same everything. You're every bit as bad. Good work on the spellcheck, darling. I love it when I have a positive influence on people.
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Post by deltadom on Feb 4, 2007 0:30:32 GMT -5
It is amazing how you heighten the study of spelling to the threat to your immortal soul which you do not even consider!
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Post by cervyy on Feb 4, 2007 0:36:37 GMT -5
According to your Bible, Jesus and God were both good spellers. If THEY took the time to master it, then surely that is a sign for you to do the same. Must the "heathens" act more like Jesus then you?
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 4, 2007 0:40:52 GMT -5
Most of my misspelling is due to the fact that I am not a typist, and I am trying to get these posts out quick. Then there are just words that I do not know how to spell.
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Post by shetani on Feb 4, 2007 1:12:42 GMT -5
Then there are just words that I do not know how to spell. Since you're older than me, aren't you supposed to be smarter as well?
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Post by victorialewis on Feb 4, 2007 8:26:36 GMT -5
Brothers, I wonder if we should just ignore our young time- waster in the hopes that her behaviour will eventually be extinguished (a teaching term, not a death threat ;D) Once again, she has hijacked a thread.
I truly appreciate your hearts in desiring to speak truth into her life. However, she follows the biblical pattern of a fool and a blasphemer. Maybe some brother or sister on the board could find some Scriptures which show how to deal with such a one? (you know, not casting pearls before swine, etc.)
When people make statements like, "I prayed and it didn't work" it demonstrates 1) a self-centered understanding of God and 2) a root of bitterness. I know that many, many others have tried to address both, but without success. We would do better to continue in prayer that the Holy Spirit would move in her heart.
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Post by cervyy on Feb 4, 2007 10:03:27 GMT -5
If it'll help, I'll comment on the original post itself;
I found it awful and offensive. I NEVER plan on reading this book, except to maybe criticize it for a feminism-based class. Honestly, it sickens me that a man would read this and rejoice in ANOTHER book telling women to be the slaves to men. Just more proof that fundy "Christians" are twisted.
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Post by cervyy on Feb 4, 2007 10:05:29 GMT -5
Most of my misspelling is due to the fact that I am not a typist, and I am trying to get these posts out quick. Then there are just words that I do not know how to spell. I like to add this --> (sp) to a sentence, right after a word if I really do not know it. It is my way of allerting the other posters that I truly do not know how to spell it, but I feel the world is imperative to my message. I recommend using that.
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Post by valentine on Feb 4, 2007 10:35:00 GMT -5
Oh god, not ANOTHER one. Created to Be His Helpmate is a disgusting concept. I have only read the excerpt because quite frankly A. this trash is not worth spending money on and B. I would rather die than support her trash by buying it, even for the purpose of trashing it further than it already is by definition. "Command Man"? My fxucking god. There is a word for this man, ladies, and it is not "Command Man." It is called "Emotionally Abusive Man." (Which is a half-step above "Physically Abusive Man," though I wouldn't count that out, either.) And FYI. I cook, I clean, I crochet, I care for children, I volunteer. Cooking and cleaning are very valuable skills that EVERYONE should practice. Childcare is a similarly valuable skill that you should probably at least get acquainted with, because at some point you will probably be in a situation where you're around children. Volunteering is something you should do as much as you can if you are a nice person. I crochet because I like to. And as someone who is pretty well educated on the "womanly tasks," they are not that difficult. If you honestly had to spend most of your childhood/adolescence/young adulthood learning these things, you are not very intelligent. I'm sorry, but you're just not. Notice how the vast majority of ladies who insist that homemaking is difficult have never gone to college, and an even smaller number have studied the sciences. I'd love to see the "ladies against feminism" try to survive in my neuropsych class (by the way, there's only one guy in the class...and lets just say that Da Ladies are showing him up juuuust a little). Or physio. Cooking and cleaning are not that complicated. You think it's hard to measure out about a cup of flour and toss it into a bowl the size of your head? Try measuring out 2.5 milliliters of 8 molar hydrochloric acid into a beaker that's the size of your pinkie. For the ladies among us whose husbands protected them from the sins of academia, I might suggest finding some 8 M hydrochloric acid, spilling a little on their perfectly-moisturized, dewy pure white hands, and praying to Jesus that their skin doesn't melt off. And to say that men "need" a female in their lives so their apartment doesn't get condemned and they don't starve to death because they can't figure out which side of the cereal box to open is, quite frankly, insulting to guys. There is nothing I bring to the task purely by being female that could not be brought by a male. N. O. T. H. I. N. G. Childcare, on the other hand, is a learning experience and definitely takes time to get the hang of. It takes just as much time if you have a pe-nis than if you have a va-gina, though, I promise. I also want to be a scientist, and trust me when I say that no man (or woman) will stop me. Yes, you may quote me on that. Cerv, yes, they anger Her Holy Curvaciousness.
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Post by shetani on Feb 4, 2007 23:10:18 GMT -5
Brothers, I wonder if we should just ignore our young time- waster Indeed. I can taste the fear, Big Momma. It melts on my tongue like a delicious, cross-shaped chocolate kiss. Mmhm. Do it again, please? Maybe some brother or sister on the board could find some Scriptures which show how to deal with such a one? (you know, not casting pearls before swine, etc.) I thought that pearls are an abomination according to da Bahble. Like, really. Oysters resemble baginas, and baginas (women) are evil; therefore, pearls are evil. Housemaking is awfully hard, though. Like, it took me an entire ten minutes to figure out the stove. Eek! So hard, man. I, for one, would love to see Big Momma attempt to dose a zebrafish embryo the size of a single eyelash with an 8 mM concentration of amifostine without puncturing the chorion, spilling sh!t, or cracking the test tube between her chubby fingers. Maybe she wants to try the irradiation drill as well? I have the strangest inkling that her pale, delicate Krischun hands would end up more than a little charred after that one. Val - I would love to see the 'ladies against feminism' take a crack at Molecular Biology and Genetics even more. I can just smell the smoking brains now. Big Momma, please. It must hard to know that while I give genetic disease a scientific smackdown and become a published researcher, your greatest accomplishment will have been wiping Miles' arse. I know, darling, I know. Fall on your knees and beg Jayzus for the strength to overcome that envy. No matter how hard you pray, I'll still be smarter than you. Btw - make me that friggin' sandwich! Don't make me go Command Man all over yo' arse.
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Post by victorialewis on Feb 6, 2007 12:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by valentine on Feb 6, 2007 13:29:38 GMT -5
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Post by shetani on Feb 6, 2007 15:46:27 GMT -5
Playin' the world's smallest violin for ya, Big Momma.
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