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Post by Jules on Apr 26, 2006 17:23:55 GMT -5
oh, and who is Pratney? Never heard of him, where can I find his stuff?
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 26, 2006 18:12:06 GMT -5
No No , Jules... I also believe in Total Depravity, completely. I simply believe we ARE bon depraved, totally and completely. However, total depravity means that we are utterly unable to please God in ANY way apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying we're born "in Salvation"... I do NOT believe nor teach that. I am saying that we're all born with the Adamic nature; not Adam's one sin. Possibly we're saying the same thing, which I suspect we are...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 26, 2006 19:49:18 GMT -5
Winkie Pratney is from New Zealand. He was a chemist with his own laboratory until God called him to leave everything and enter the ministry.
The man is by far the brightest man I have ever met. His personal life is amazing. He sleeps but 4 hours a night and reads about 8 books a week.
He has great writings on theology and doctrines. Any audio of his would be well worth listening to.
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Post by Grant on Apr 26, 2006 21:38:46 GMT -5
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Post by Jules on Apr 26, 2006 22:54:54 GMT -5
Winkie Pratney? Wow, that is a name I won't forget anytime soon. I'll try to listen to some stuff - although I don't know if I can listen to an MP3 thing..I'm so technically challenged and just barely know how to type I suppose most of these are posted on the sermons thread? man, such good stuff on here. I am so fired up.
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Post by Grant on Apr 27, 2006 9:56:39 GMT -5
I suppose most of these are posted on the sermons thread? Doubt it. This was him teaching all the YWAM leaders and Winkie mentioned he lost all his notes (though I'm sure its all in his head) and never had audios himself. My bro at work had some original reels of it and so I spent all last year converting the raw reel-to-reel tapes to digital, remastering them, and now making em available to everyone that wants em. Winkie has a couple on his website as well. I could make the audio CDs for you but it would be at least 15 CDs! If you want a CD of the MP3s or to have them converted to audio CDs, just let me know. I'd be glad to help however I can. Blessings.
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Post by Jules on Apr 27, 2006 13:46:13 GMT -5
thanks Grant, for the time you put to make sound doctrine available...it is getting harder to find
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 27, 2006 14:57:18 GMT -5
Hey there. For you Ipod'ers (not even sure that is a word) I just found a podcast that Bro. Pratney seems to update fairly frequently. Either search for him in the Music store for ITunes or go to www.godsipod.com. I just subscribed and will soon be listening to my first teaching from Bro. Pratney
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Post by Grant on Apr 27, 2006 16:39:39 GMT -5
Tony, The podcasts are lessons from his CORE teaching. I believe his CORE teaching (also available as book) is intended for youth as that's his main focus. But the 1974 SOE stuff was him teaching the YWAM adult leaders, when YWAM was ontrack and on fire. I would HIGHLY recommend the 1974 SOE stuff first, IMHO.
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Post by SlowBro on May 1, 2006 11:12:55 GMT -5
As another Charismatic Calvinist I don't hate this question either. All chose hell, God chose to save some. It's right there in the Bible. Once again another non-Calvinist confuses hyper-Calvinism with traditional Calvinism. Guess we just have to keep grinning and bearing it Please, for the sake of love, spend just 30 minutes and learn the difference.
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Post by biblethumper on May 1, 2006 11:21:51 GMT -5
We're accountable for our sin.If Joe steals from Sally, Sally isn;t the one punished.Sally may suffer loss and be affected but she's not guilty; Joe is.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 1, 2006 13:19:35 GMT -5
You guys may not be hyper-calvinist, but I think there are/were some on the boards before both of you came or atleast some shades of it.
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Post by biblethumper on May 1, 2006 14:30:41 GMT -5
Well, if any hyper calvinists were on thsi board, I pray that all Bible Believing Christians shared Jesus and the Gospel of Repentance, because, as a Calvinist, I agree that hyper-calvinists and hyper-arminians are NOT SAVED.... one preaches a "cheap Grace" gospel while the other a "works" (not fruit) gospel.
Both need Jesus.
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Post by SlowBro on May 2, 2006 8:59:58 GMT -5
You guys may not be hyper-calvinist, but I think there are/were some on the boards before both of you came or atleast some shades of it. OK that's fine, but please make the distinction in your question, for the sake of love. I join you in attacking the hyper-Calvinist's view; it is a heresy to say that God coerces men to do evil. One hyper-Calvinist website has as their banner text Isaiah 45:7 in the KJV: "I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]." Blech, talk about misunderstanding God!
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:37:33 GMT -5
You guys may not be hyper-calvinist, but I think there are/were some on the boards before both of you came or atleast some shades of it. So why'd they leave? Just curious. It would be interesting to discuss reformed theology with a hyper-calvinist. I have yet to do that I have more in common with an Arminian who teaches evangelism than a hyper-calvinist. Thank the Lord...
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:38:38 GMT -5
hyper anything is unbiblical, as we are to avoid ALL extremes.
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Post by biblethumper on May 3, 2006 12:58:21 GMT -5
AMEN!
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 3, 2006 13:13:24 GMT -5
I don't know if the person I am thinking about would call themselves a hyper-calvinist, but I remember him saying that he wasn't sure if babies went to hell or not.
I guess he got tired of us trying to refute him. I'll see if I can find some threads he was involved in...
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 3, 2006 13:19:24 GMT -5
I can't find anything. I think that threads may be deleted after so long...
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Post by Miles Lewis on May 3, 2006 13:26:38 GMT -5
If he deleted his membership I don't think it is possible to look up past posts from him, although the posts do exist somewhere.
Miles
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Post by biblethumper on May 3, 2006 14:02:40 GMT -5
I don't know if the person I am thinking about would call themselves a hyper-calvinist, but I remember him saying that he wasn't sure if babies went to hell or not. I guess he got tired of us trying to refute him. I'll see if I can find some threads he was involved in... I know some solid Calvinists who believe some babies go to hell. Yeah, I know...crazy doctrine...actually, stating a baby goes to hell is a statement birthed from the devil himself. There are some, however, who believe that....NOT based on the BABY, but on predestination and a flawed view of it. Sad, yes.. But some pretty solid Holiness Calvinists quietly hold to such a doctrine.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 3, 2006 14:19:18 GMT -5
Yup, that's why some people sprinkle "holy" tap water on babies... Or do they use spring water? Oh I know! It's distilled water. That way it is pure H20.
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Post by evanschaible on May 9, 2006 13:04:46 GMT -5
Well, RevK, and all who hold eternal security high,
Tell me about the church of Laodicea?
No one has yet answered. I see no possibility of reconciling eternal security with this church, or church age.
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Post by biblethumper on May 9, 2006 14:12:20 GMT -5
Laodicea was, according to one view, in danger of being spewed into great tribulation.... Now, I donlt essentially believe that view...I'm simply pointing out the fact that the "you can lose it" view is the only one held concerning Laodicea.
Again, one should listen to Mark Cahill's take on it...he brings it out nicely.
As for myself, I believe that that if you DO get spewed out of the Mouth of God due to his disgust and stomach turning over a backslideen people, I do not in any way believe there is further repentance for such a one who is spewed out of the mouth of God.
So, Calvinists say "you can NEVER lose it".
Arminians say, "You can lose it 10 times and receive it again and again and again."
I believe in eternal security so far as it presents holiness of lifestyle.
David sinned, and according to many he was "not heaven-bound" during those years.
I see a man who prayed, "Take NOT Thy Holy Spirit from me"....he didn't pray, "Give Him back to me"....i see a man who said, "restore unto me"....not "give it back"....and he asked for the restoration of JOY, not salvation.
Without quoting any other verses, but simply taking the exegetical study of the entirety of Psalm 51, you cannot conclude anything else...simply because Arminian doctrine is absent in David's entire prayer.
Now, does that allow us to do as he did?
No, because we may end up like SAUL, rather than David, who could not repent and had an evil spirit from the Lord sent to him to torment him.
Again.....
David was forgiven and restored by God.
Saul was given over to perdition.
Hence, it is best to take heed and live in righteous fear of the awesome judgment of God, lest we ourselves fall into the same condemnation as those who God DID NOT restore.
That's the mystery about God; He doesn;t have restore anyone.
He promises no backslider restoration.
Hence, rather than act like a Calvinist who loves sin or an Arminian who tells you that you can be Born Again and Again and Again, I'll stick to the obedience of my conscience based on the commands of Scripture.
I'm not resting my eternal life on either calvinism or arminianism... both could send you to hell when taken to extremes.
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Post by evanschaible on May 9, 2006 14:18:31 GMT -5
I belive that if we abide in Christ we will never fall. But I also hold more controversial views that spring directly from John 15. Like if we abide in Christ we dont, or rather, wont sin. But If we abide in Jesus, the true vine, we will not fall. Hence the term "keeps himself" (elsewhere in scripture) or in other words, abides in Christ because apart from Jesus we can do nothing. But
I do believe also that it is totally up to God if we can "rededicate" our lives to Jesus or not. I can find both instances of seeking repentance with tears and not finding it, and being grafted in again in scripture. So it is up to God.
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Post by biblethumper on May 9, 2006 14:24:30 GMT -5
Yes, Evan, my point exactly.
This is why the Lord says, "To day, if ye hear His Voice, harden not your hearts as they did in the provocation".
it IS up to the Lord; the problem is that he doesn;t tell US whether He'll forgive us if we fall into wilful sin and rebellion.... so I advise against PRESUMING that He will.... because those who live in sin actually believe that; that He WILL forgive.,.... they usually die in that state of false believing
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