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Post by danlirette on Apr 8, 2007 22:23:38 GMT -5
I challenged the "born in sin" error today after church and the man, a very very good friend of mine, really had no Scriptural support to back the claim up.
His wife, a precious Saint, smiled and asked if I was kidding....
It seems that just because it's accepted and widely held to, that people believe it...
Sin is a spiritual condition which occurs when we willfully make a decision to do evil.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 8, 2007 22:28:31 GMT -5
You are absolutely right Dan. I rejoice that you are taking such a bold stance.
We inherit a physical body, but a physical body is a shell or an instrument, it is not a sin itself. We inherit an aggrevated temptation, we inherit a bias or a heavy influence to sin, but we do not inherit sin itself or the guilt of another man's sins, nor anything that causes us or forces us to sin against our will.
All sin is a free moral choice to violate God's law. And we deserve hell for our own sin. We need the blood of Jesus because of our own sin. We need to get back to personal responsibility and personal accountability, and personal ability preaching!
That is what brings true conviction. Nobody is ever convicted of another man's crime. But when a sinner realizes that he personally choose to sin against God when he never ever had to, then the Spirit presses heavy conviction upon his mind.
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Post by danlirette on Apr 8, 2007 22:35:18 GMT -5
Amen Jesse! When I asked my friends, "Do you go to hell for Adam's sin or for your own sin and rebellion?", my friend conceded that it is our sin which sends us to damnation. When I asked what Paul meant when he said in Romans 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.", he really didn't know, though he tried his best to explain it Sin is a moral declaration against the Lord's Law as revealed in His Word; lawbreakers will not inherit the Kingdom of God....we must have fruit, the Spirit's Fruit, if we are to name the Name of Christ...anything other than this is sin, and the wages of sin IS death.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 6, 2007 4:10:54 GMT -5
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Post by celebrity on Jun 20, 2007 19:19:25 GMT -5
This is a cover I made if anyone wants to print the PDF file off as a book: This guy looks abit Brigham Young like but scarier
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Post by Grant on Jun 20, 2007 22:15:32 GMT -5
I can't imagine how I'd look living in those hard conditions -- manual labor, no A/C, no square meals, and only one bath a week...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 21, 2007 3:24:24 GMT -5
He actually looks very much like my present day uncle. I wish I had a picture to show you.
But I picked that picture specially for the cover. It's a great picture, there is something fiery to him in it. He sure could preach hell-fire I bet.
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Post by celebrity on Jun 21, 2007 13:26:37 GMT -5
Comic book answer for Jessie....
"wow your uncle must be scary."
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Post by celebrity on Jun 25, 2007 19:59:36 GMT -5
No come back from jessie....
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Post by dmatic on Aug 5, 2007 7:58:37 GMT -5
danlirette wrote:
I'm glad you brought this verse brother! What do you think Paul meant? When he said that he was alive without the law once, what did he mean? Was he alive sometime, somewhere before the law was given?
Peace, dmatic
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 12, 2007 1:56:56 GMT -5
Tim, my husband & I had a bible teacher that told us that you back up scripture with scripture. He always said, where is it, chapter and verse. This keeps us from error! The Holy Ghost will lead us into all truth. We must rely solely on God's Word and not look 75% at men's teachings to determine TRUTH... There have been wonderful teachers over the years, but the bible should be the plumb line for finding TRUTH... in God's Word. Jesus, who was without sin, died for our sins. Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (forgiveness, pardon) There's a verse that might clarify and help in Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. We are born in sin because of Adam but accountable when we know it is sin.
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truth2liberty
Junior Member
?God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.?
Posts: 65
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Post by truth2liberty on Mar 10, 2008 22:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 10, 2008 22:37:46 GMT -5
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Post by HDmatt on Apr 3, 2008 22:54:50 GMT -5
There is so much power in moral accountability, yet I am afraid as I have heard since we all are sinful upon birth, its not our fault, there is no conviction for sin because 'we didn't do it' its a blockade to revival. Excellent responses Jesse, even though it was like last year ha I just found Mr. Finney's resources. So powerful
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 3, 2008 23:17:03 GMT -5
That's exactly right. We have to grasp the truth about moral accountability. Theological errors are a great hindrance to revival, to holiness, and to soul winning.
Sinners try to excuse their rebellion by saying:
"Nobodies perfect. You can't be perfect."
"I'm only human. I can't help it."
"I was born a sinner. It's not my fault."
"God's Laws are impossible. It's His fault"
And sadly, many Christians actually grant the sinner these types of excuses! But these excuses will not hold up on the Day of Judgment. God will hold mankind accountable for sinning because Gd has given mankind the ability not to sin (free will). It's not Adam's fault. It's not God's fault (His eternal decrees or secret will). Sin is our own fault because sin is a free will choice.
Rather then giving sinners these theological excuses for their rebellion, we ought to destroy their excuses until they come to complete and total surrender and obedience to the Lordship of Christ.
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Post by logic on Apr 5, 2008 9:57:04 GMT -5
danlirette wrote: I'm glad you brought this verse brother! What do you think Paul meant? When he said that he was alive without the law once, what did he mean? Was he alive sometime, somewhere before the law was given? Peace, dmatic Tihis is how you should understand it. The second part of verse 8 should actually be part of v.9 for better contextual understanding: Romans 8b - 9 Now, when there are no requirements, there would be nothing to be inclined against..... 9 ...And I thought that I was alive when I didn't know of the requirements of the law, but when I heard of that certain, specific requirement, then my inclination against it became active, and I realized that I had no life in me to submitt.
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Post by pete777 on Apr 5, 2008 20:46:55 GMT -5
Logic,
LOGIC WROTE: "This is how you should understand it. The second part of verse 8 should actually be part of v.9 for better contextual understanding:
Romans 8b - 9 Now, when there are no requirements, there would be nothing to be inclined against..... 9 ...And I thought that I was alive when I didn't know of the requirements of the law, but when I heard of that certain, specific requirement, then my inclination against it became active, and I realized that I had no life in me to submit."
Logic hit the NAIL so square on the head that it "ain't" coming out! Sin is evil! Sin is deceptive! Sin is breaking the law of God! In order to know what sin is, you must know what the law says and its intent! The Law is righteousness! (Ps 119:172) We are unrighteousness!(Rom 3:12, Isaish 64:6) The law is spiritual! (Rom 7:14) We are CARNAL! So in order to see our sin (spiritual wickedness) we need the mirror of the law (spiritual truth reflected into our lives) then we can SEE, WE THEN HAVE SPIRITUAL EYE SIGHT to know right and wrong!
I can be living to all the light/LAW (Prov 6:23) that God has shown in my path (by His sustaining POWER/GRACE) one day, but then the LIGHT SHINES "A NEW" and I see some new form of wickedness in my life that I did not know existed! I then CHOOSE to go to God and have Him, forgive me, and CLEANSE me from that sinful trait in my character! He empowers me to change my sinful habits in my life! I accept His power (THE GOSPEL) and the sin is destroyed! Note the sin is destroyed, not the LAW! The LAW is eternal character and righteousness of the CREATOR and REDEEMER. THe LAW remains, and the sin goes away, when we choose His grace/power to overcome our spiritual sinfulness.
Romans 7:8-13
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
NOTE: sin is exposed in the life by the Ten Commandments! For without a knowledge of right and wrong (LAW) we are "doing great," but when the law shines something new (our sinfulness) in our path, we are "IN NEED OF MORE POWER TO OVERCOME."
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
NOTE: "...I was alive once..." = I was living to the light I had! But now the Holy Spirit (which is the law written in our consciences) has revealed something new in my sinful life to get victory!) PROVERBS 4:18 the path of the just is as a shining light! Light is Law, Prov 6:23. So the law will always shine to show us our continual need of Christ! That is why we are in a salvational relationship, being sanctified from KNOWN SIN (sin revealed to us by GOD). A Christian never says "I AM SAVED FROM ALL SIN NOW" but rather "I AM WALKING WITH GOD WITH THE HOPE OF SALVATION." And "I am being sanctified from sin as God points it out to me." I AM BEING SAVED FROM SIN! We must ENDURE! WE MUST NOT TURN BACK! We put our hands to the plough and keep ploughing up the fallow ground of weeds, so the good seed of the Word of God can make us perfect. As we continue to plough, we are perfect at every stage of development. First the blade, then the ear, then the whole corn!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
NOTE: Here the commandment that is the standard of eternal life, offers NO POWER TO HELP US OBEY! IT JUST TELLS US OUR SINFULNESS! When we SEE our SIN we then GO TO JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR from SIN! Matthew 1:21! To save us from sin! Not to save us from law! We are SAVED FROM BREAKING THE LAW! We are not condemned (under the law), we are sustained in grace/ power to obey the spiritual principles, by the Spirit of GOD.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
NOTE: Sin is deceptive! Why? Because it is spiritual wickedness Ephesians 2:2-3. It is a spiritual power that we are not always aware of in every form. The big sins are easy to see, but the secret sins are not always known by us, until pointed out by GOD! Sin is subtil, and hard to find without spiritual help.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
NOTE: The law points out sin! THe law is goodness!
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. KJV
THANK YOU LORD FOR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS THAT POINT OUT HOW WE ARE NOT LIKE YOU! AND THANK YOU FOR JESUS, SO WE CAN BE CLEANSED FROM THAT WHICH ONLY YOU CAN POINT OUT AND THEN WE CAN BE LIKE YOU! Col 1:27 Christ in you the hope of GLORY!
Pete
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Post by logic on Apr 17, 2008 8:02:38 GMT -5
Logic hit the NAIL so square on the head that it "ain't" coming out! Sin is evil! Sin is deceptive! Sin is breaking the law of God! In order to know what sin is, you must know what the law says and its intent! The Law is righteousness! (Ps 119:172) We are unrighteousness! Those who are unsaved are unrighteous. We Christians are righteous. Who are you calling "carnal? I hope that you are talking about the unsaved. Christians are not "sold under sin" anymore. This is the process of Christian sanctification. As Christians, we already have the power needed to overcome what ever comes to light. A better way to interpret v.8 is this: 8 Now lawlessness takes its start through the commandment, and from that, it brought about (revealed) in me all that were truly unlawful desires.Rom 4:15 Where there is no law, there is no sin. Rom 5:13 sin is not imputed when there is no law With these verses known, Romans Now, when there are no requirements, there is no lawlessness... Romans 4:15 9 ...And I thought that I was alive when I didn't know the requirements of the law, but when I heard of that specific requirement ("You shall not lust." v.7), then my affections became known as unlawful, and I died spiritually.This as our heart being cleansed, because we corrupted our own heart before our life with Christ. A better way to interpret is this: 10 And the specific requirements(commandments) witch were to give eternal life, I found them to be spiritual death of me.11 because my affections against them...You are correct that the Law offers no assistance of help, however, there is an ability to obey, we just never choose to obey consistently. Instead of the law showing our sinfulness, it plainly reveals our weakness of the flesh to consistently obey it. As Christians, yes, Furthermore, We see the temptation to rebel or disobey against the law, we go to Jesus for strength to obey. For the lost, they go to Him for forgiveness, then the strength. A better way to interpret is this: 11 Because lawlessness takes its start through the commandment, it deceived me (by thinking that my desires were lawful before I knew the law), and by those commandments, made me realize that I was actually dead.Sin is not a "power" but an influence. Ephesians 2:2-3 talks about a "prince of authority of the air" More like demonic forces. The sin that is referred to in Romans 7:11 are the personal affections that are unlawful. Those unlawful affections(sin)
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Post by yadanni on Apr 18, 2008 22:12:40 GMT -5
hi guys just read some articles against charles finneys doctrine by michael horton and others claiming he was a heretic and deciever. Do you know of any direct rebuttals to such accusations.
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Post by joeldad on Apr 18, 2008 22:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by yadanni on Apr 18, 2008 22:38:10 GMT -5
oops sorry just saw the links posted above by jesse. Nice one thanks.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 19, 2008 7:58:50 GMT -5
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Post by chuckfinney on Nov 13, 2009 22:51:12 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there is a "Finney" Bible... (with his commentaries) Thanks, Matt
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Post by swordofthelord on Mar 6, 2015 17:08:54 GMT -5
I tried to download the zip file (in first post by Jesse), but when it downloads it doesnt have the 1851 or the other edition of the book in it? All I get is this:
Evangelism Leaflet Has the Bible Changes Joining the Church Poster.pdf Prayer Scriptures
Any help?
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