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Post by mahatma on Nov 29, 2006 19:26:20 GMT -5
Pach, do you seriously think anyone who is not a young earth believer is a wicked sinner?
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:28:46 GMT -5
I love Hovind's video's, he's a great teacher, but he sells himself short with some of his name calling that he does. I haven't seen his whole presentation so I might be taking his comments out of context. He called his opponents stupid, and I just found it unnecessary. I can accept that. I think there is a serious danger in people setting civility standards. What happens is they get offended, because of their stuborness towards the Word and then say, "you violated my civility". It's more of a tactic....
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:29:28 GMT -5
Pach, do you seriously think anyone who is not a young earth believer is a wicked sinner? Yes very much so..especially people who should know better.
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Post by mahatma on Nov 29, 2006 19:33:19 GMT -5
So any person who believes in evolution or in an old earth at the time of his death is hell-bound?
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:33:53 GMT -5
Look what teaching evolution has done to our youth. They think they are evolved animals.....
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:36:15 GMT -5
So any person who believes in evolution or in an old earth at the time of his death is hell-bound? I don't believe a Christian can lose their salvation. But I believe it is a serious sin and I don't believe that a Christian can ever grow properly in the faith without embracing creation.
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Post by mahatma on Nov 29, 2006 19:38:58 GMT -5
I don't think there are any christians who don't embrace creation. I also don't think creation necessitates a young earth.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:40:56 GMT -5
I think people who believe and teach and enable evolutionist thinking cause abortions.
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Post by mahatma on Nov 29, 2006 19:44:44 GMT -5
You could think that every time a bell chimes an angel gets its wings, but that wouldn't make it true.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 19:49:43 GMT -5
But it is true....a "defeatist attitude". I was at Princeton University displaying signs of the reality of abortion as others preached. One, very well educated person told me quite honestly, "I don't see the value of human life...we're just animals".
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Post by tbxi on Nov 29, 2006 20:02:00 GMT -5
I think that some of us need to do a little more thinking before we make "I think x causes y" generalizations. Cause and effect in situations like this is not so easy to prove and probably not the best thing to be taking a heavily dogmatic stance upon.
I do not believe in atheistic evolution. However I am an old earth believer. Still figuring that out right now. Regardless of that fact, it doesn't mean that I am logically forced to condone abortion or any such nonsense.
I don't have a defeatist attitude... I don't know where that comes from. I get my opinion on the required paying of taxes from Matthew 22:21 and the 16th amendment, and that's that.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 20:24:20 GMT -5
I think your doing damage control now. You must have views that support a view of evolution or you wouldn't be so offended by Hovind. Obviously there is a ramification for sin and a improper view of either God or self.
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Post by abb on Nov 29, 2006 20:27:03 GMT -5
HUMANS ARE ANIMALS.
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Post by abb on Nov 29, 2006 20:27:48 GMT -5
Sounds like a personal problem.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 20:42:08 GMT -5
Humans were made seperate from the animals and in the image of God. We have value not because of ourselves...but because we were made in His image. If you believed that you would never enable or support abortion. You would consider the life of even the least among us to be of great value.
Another defeatist attitude...because of evolution......
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Post by tbxi on Nov 29, 2006 20:47:10 GMT -5
I think your doing damage control now. You must have views that support a view of evolution or you wouldn't be so offended by Hovind. Obviously there is a ramification for sin and a improper view of either God or self. If believing the universe is roughly 12-15 billion years old (which is actually something to be accepted based on many facts, not "belief") is "a view of evolution", then sure. Look around on the Internet, though, and you'll find many old-earthers who are not evolutionists or theistic evolutionists. I simply am not sure where I stand on the issue right now, that doesn't mean you can lump me in with one camp or another. It is not a high-priority study issue for me at this time. I am not offended myself by Hovind. I just think that some of his 6000-year-old-earth apologetics are disingenuous, and that namecalling is also disingenuous.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 20:52:03 GMT -5
Well you sure act like you dispise the man. Who by the way believes the Bible word for word. I think that you should trust what it says and really think about it.
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Post by tbxi on Nov 29, 2006 20:55:01 GMT -5
*sigh* I do not despise him. You are putting words into my mouth, pacp... I have already spelled it out that I am not after the guy... I don't have a problem with YEC believers in general, or him. Do I have to agree with every word someone says and the demeanor in which it is said, in order to not despise that person?
Saying that some of what some person writes is disingenuous is not to say the person is worthy of spite. I do not despise Kent Hovind. Seriously. It's not like "you're either for Kent Hovind and all of his YEC apologetics, or you hate him".
Edit: And as for "believing the Bible word for word"... you might want to add to that "in the way that I interpret it". I have read material that presents valid exegetical basis for belief in an old earth, or that interprets the "day"s of Gen. 1 as other than 24-hour solar days. Believe me, I have done plenty of thinking about this...
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Post by oap001 on Nov 29, 2006 21:00:18 GMT -5
Ok....
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Post by tonyholland on Nov 29, 2006 23:38:21 GMT -5
Pacp....What on earth are you doing? You have essientially said that those who take issue with Mr. Hovind are all evolutionists and don't believe the Bible. I don't think there are any Christians on this board who believe in evolution. What would make you assume that? On top of this, you are now deciding who and who doesn't "despise" Kent Hovind?
There is a wide gap between straight talk and going on a paranoid rant.
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Post by oap001 on Nov 30, 2006 12:40:47 GMT -5
You can say you believe something but if you belie it and denounce those who champion the cause. It's fair to question, "what do you really believe". And your throwing out a civility argument almost like a heathen. You bust on me for my spelling, while at the same time say that Hovind crossed the line in calling EVOLUTIONISTS stupid.
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Post by tonyholland on Dec 1, 2006 10:41:54 GMT -5
I don't think anyone "belittled" his teaching. Disagreeing doesn't equal belittling. I don't think anyone has denounced Mr. Hovind for his teachings, but for his criminal acts that he doesn't seem to want to admit to.
To expect civility=being a heathen?
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Post by oap001 on Dec 1, 2006 13:44:33 GMT -5
I don't think anyone "belittled" his teaching. Disagreeing doesn't equal belittling. I don't think anyone has denounced Mr. Hovind for his teachings, but for his criminal acts that he doesn't seem to want to admit to. To expect civility=being a heathen? I believe that a long step toward public morality will have been taken when sins are called by their right names. The difference between God's side and the devil's is the difference between heaven and hell God likes a little humor, as is evidence by the fact that he made the monkeys, the parrot -- and some of you people Yank some of the groans out of your prayers, and shove in some shouts. When I hit the devil square in the face some people go away as mad as if I had slapped them in the mouth. To discover a flaw in our makeup is a chance to get rid of it, and add a new line of beauty to our life. Thank you Billy Sunday!!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Dec 1, 2006 14:19:53 GMT -5
That's good.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Dec 1, 2006 15:22:37 GMT -5
That Gibbs character who testified against them is a goon.
The long and short of the 501(c)(3) issue is that a ministry or church DOES NOT HAVE TO apply for that status in order to be exempt from taxes. In order to do that they do have to fall under certain descriptions. But it's still a fact, in US Law a ministry does NOT have to be 501(c)(3) to be tax exempt.
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Post by tonyholland on Dec 1, 2006 15:38:41 GMT -5
That Gibbs character who testified against them is a goon. The long and short of the 501(c)(3) issue is that a ministry or church DOES NOT HAVE TO apply for that status in order to be exempt from taxes. In order to do that they do have to fall under certain descriptions. But it's still a fact, in US Law a ministry does NOT have to be 501(c)(3) to be tax exempt. That may be, but the question is did they fall under one of those certain descriptions. Also, it wouldn't exempt them from filing employee taxes and certainly doesn't mean that he didn't have to file personal income tax returns. Like the guy or not...he broke the law.
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Post by tonyholland on Dec 1, 2006 15:42:41 GMT -5
That may be good, but I don't think calling someone "stupid" is a example of calling sins by their right names. Then you suggest that the creation of some of the people on this board are God's work of humor? I really have not seen you do any such thing. Do you have a example of "hitting the devil square in the mouth?"
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Post by oap001 on Dec 1, 2006 16:45:24 GMT -5
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