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Post by lizlovesjesus on Mar 28, 2006 21:18:48 GMT -5
Just wondering what ya'll thought about Christian rap as a form of worship to God.Personally I have been blessed by it and would like to know what everyone thought about it.
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 28, 2006 22:49:38 GMT -5
Personally I work in the inner city and hate what I see gangster rap do to people's lives and mindsets.
As far as "Christian rap" I do not care for it, but I do not like to judge music because it is too easy to judge by our own preference. I will judge by the fruit.
There may be some, but I do not see much real fruit coming from rap or any other form of contemporary Christian music.
The organization I have worked for have put on events for young people and they bring in so called "Christian Rappers" and they hold their crotch and love all the attention from the young girls just like the secular artists do. I honestly do not see much difference between the contemporary Christian music industry and secular music industry.
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Post by Grant on Mar 28, 2006 23:30:12 GMT -5
I used to be heavily into music, all sorts. When I first "came to Christ" I enjoyed all the Christian-ized music, which was really rip-offs from the secular world with GODly words all over it. But I could enjoy the musical talent and good songs while not feeling guilty.
But since I got soundly saved a couple years ago, I don't really like what we've done, bringing the world into the church. But copying styles isn't the problem, its when we're loose on what we copy. For instance, Toby Mac (sp?) used an old 70's song that was about wanting to have raw sex w/ some lady and made it fit into his song so it seemed like it was now about GOD - "I want you, I want you bad..." sorta thing. That made me sick! And the 25,000 youth probably had no clue where the song came from or what it was really about.
So where do I stand? confused I guess... so I tend to be more conservative if I'm gonna call it worship now.
my 2 cents...
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Post by tomah on Mar 29, 2006 10:43:45 GMT -5
I will say nothing for fear of being too blunt and offensive over a message board. If I met you all in person I would tell you how I feel about it, but I won't now unless i'm asked...it's too dangerous
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 29, 2006 15:25:28 GMT -5
Oh PPPPPPPLLLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEE TELL US ARMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously I really want to hear what you have to say. I think it is very important. I try to be as reasonable as I can in this area, because I do not like to be dogmatic on certain things I can't see clearly in scripture, but it seems most of this music is very worldly and is of the spirit of the world.
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 29, 2006 15:26:23 GMT -5
LET IT RIP ARMEN!!!!!
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Post by tomah on Mar 29, 2006 17:09:27 GMT -5
Look bro...maybe it's because I was addicted to music before I was saved. But it's like this...if it even slightly resembles secular stuff then all it's worthy of is the trash can!! Man I HATE beat!!! Any beat of rap/dance/pop/rnb etc, etc was born in hell!! If you sniff it hard enough, you'll smell the burning sulphur!! Just my 10 cents....
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Mar 29, 2006 23:29:33 GMT -5
I agree with you Armen. I was introduced to 'christian' rap/hip -hop music a few years after I got saved. I found the lyrics on some songs to be ok but the majority of them no substance at all.
The music is associated with the world as well. - It appeals to the flesh. And to be honest with you I don't think it falls into the category of music which we as Christians should be listening to:
"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord." (Eph 5:19)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 30, 2006 0:41:19 GMT -5
The Church is to be a representation of that which is heavenly. The problem I have with this type of music is that it wasn't birthed in Heaven, it was worldly and people are trying to sanctify it.
We are not to simply take what the world does and try and make it Christian. Rather we are to be representations of the Heavenly Kingdom that already existed long before this style of music came out.
I am not saying that God cannot use this type of music. When I first got saved I was ministered to by Christian Rap in a good way. It may do some good things, but is it the best?
I am all for spiritual hymns. They are my favorite type of music. They have a way of deeply ministering to the inner spiritual parts of man which seems to be a realm that contemporary music cannot reach. Contemporary music seems to only work in the realms of the emotions, the flesh.
Jesus sang a hymn with His disciples in the upper room. Paul and Silas sang a hymn in jail. And I fully believe that we will sing hymns, not Christian rap, when we make it to Heaven.
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Post by Grant on Mar 30, 2006 9:43:51 GMT -5
The only thing that stops me from being too hard against the music still is this: our "spiritual hymns" today came from bar songs! How holy is that? But since we don't sing those songs anymore, should they now be considered ok? Not according to what we're saying here... And Christian artists aren't very creative without being partly from the world, so perhaps the only thing we can do is listen to Jewish hymns and use those?
hence why I'm confused... thoughts?
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Post by manna/ E.Wallace on Mar 30, 2006 10:12:41 GMT -5
The only thing that stops me from being too hard against the music still is this: our "spiritual hymns" today came from bar songs! How holy is that? But since we don't sing those songs anymore, should they now be considered ok? Not according to what we're saying here... And Christian artists aren't very creative without being partly from the world, so perhaps the only thing we can do is listen to Jewish hymns and use those? hence why I'm confused... thoughts? Hey.. Grant, are you saying we should listen to Michael Card.. ;D why not sing Psalms.. Be Blessed..
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Post by Josh Parsley on Mar 30, 2006 10:25:29 GMT -5
Speaking of music..... Here is a group I love. Their CD is free. You can DL it on their website. www.christourlife.ca/
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Post by kingkid on Mar 30, 2006 13:42:12 GMT -5
Well, I find SOME Christian Rap Music ok!! When I first started listening to christian rap, some of the artists seemed too worldly. I'm not going to name any, but they were rapping about cars and clothes! The ones I listen to now do all in word and deed in Jesus' name!! Also, lyrists have a God-given talent, like Darlene Zschech does with Hillsong. If your listening to a Christian rapper who is caught up in self-gratification, give the boot. I wouldn't put off all Christian rappers because of my past with rap.( I used to be addicted) Like I said, it's a gift. All the secular rappers have a gift, but it has been perverted by the enemy as all things of this world are! I like Delirous?, and the genre of most of their music is rock!
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Post by prolifedorothy on Mar 30, 2006 14:46:31 GMT -5
In my opinion it's not just the music alone but the churches are now taking their cues from business, sales techniques and the world in general. I don't consider myself oldfashioned but 10 years ago one would never see women in church in pants yet alone blue jeans, mini-skirts, bare midriffs, etc. I go to what is considered a "conservative" church and this is the norm.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Mar 30, 2006 18:45:24 GMT -5
The only thing that stops me from being too hard against the music still is this: our "spiritual hymns" today came from bar songs! How holy is that? This is a myth put out by the CCM supporters. The truth is that much if not all of the music was hijacked by the 'bar singers' and then restored to the church where it belongs by the great hymn writers of old. Martin Luther was quoted as saying 'why should the devil have all the good music'. CCM people use this quote to justify the use of wordly music in worship/'church'. Luther was in fact referring to the Catholic church and not the world. Fanny Crosby who wrote over 9000 hymns after getting saved was asked to write lyrics to wordly music. She said something to the effect that as a Christian she could not possibly use the music of the world to give worship and glory to God. I like Jesse, am not completley against all CCM particularly if there is no beat but plenty of melody. I would really recommend listening to 'Abandoned to God' by Steve Camp. Particularly the 'Cornerstone' song where the lyrics clearly and boldly proclaim that we are not saved by works righteousness but by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. The music does not appeal to the flesh and would be excellent for a Roman Catholic to hear.
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Post by Grant on Mar 30, 2006 19:11:08 GMT -5
This is a myth put out by the CCM supporters. The truth is that much if not all of the music was hijacked by the 'bar singers' and then restored to the church where it belongs by the great hymn writers of old. Interesting... since this goes against everything I've ever heard and read on the subject, would you mind sharing with me where you get this information? Much obliged.
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 30, 2006 20:30:46 GMT -5
If that is true and sounds like it probably could be, that would be very helpful. I agree with Grant. Let us know where you get this information.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Mar 31, 2006 0:59:05 GMT -5
I refer you to 'Why I Left the CCM Movement' (confessions of a former worship leader) by Dan Lucarini - evangelical press. Chapter 14: 'Didn't Martin Luther and the Wesley's use Contemporary Music in Church?'
Also check out 'Worship in the melting pot' by Peter Masters - wakeman trust and 'The Battle for Christian Music' by Tim Fisher - sacred music services.
Hope this helps.
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Post by tomah on Mar 31, 2006 4:28:05 GMT -5
I think I have seen that book Jonny. My mum might even have bought it, but I have never read it. Here is another thing I don't like about the different types of CCM. If your neighbours can hear you play it...will they know it is about God?? Here is a good website partly run by a close friend and brother - www.freedomministries.org.uk/ Also, let me just say that I also love to sing the psalms as well as wesley/crosby hymns. They are greatly honouring to God and very challenging to us as we sing them.
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Post by Grant on Mar 31, 2006 9:44:53 GMT -5
Much appreciated brothers, I'll check them out.
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Post by lizlovesjesus on Apr 1, 2006 10:23:30 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses.I would disagree with some things said but I understand why some people feel the way they do.I would start by saying that not all so called christian rap is to the glory of God,but that doesnt mean that there isnt christian rap that glorifies God.I would say that sometimes as christians we tend to judge things without first hearing them.I think some people are brought up a certain way and will bring those values into christianity.I have a question, am from Africa, traditionally africans beat drums and dance to the beat etc.Now if a traditional African comes to Christ and decided they are going to worship God in beating drums and adds words that glorify God would you say that they were wrong and had to only sing hymns in a soft melow tune as the proper way of worship?I think the same thing applies to christian rap.Rap is words over beats and if a true christian is a christian rapper then they are preaching over beats.Just like a hymn would be like.Does God look at the beats to accept what is worship?I think not.If a christian says that they are rapping and they are truly glorifying God in the words and doing all to the glory of God,is anything wrong with that?I wouldnt classify gangsta rap and the secular rap the same as christian rap.I will post some words from a christian rapper and ask that you examine them if anything is worng with them.And please by no means am I only rooting for christian rap,I listen to all types of christian music and if its truly glorifying God then yes I will listen to it and worship God.God bless you all.
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Post by tomah on Apr 1, 2006 11:13:59 GMT -5
Funny you should mention African music. I was listening to a preacher who told a story of American missionaries going to a church in Africa that was full of natives. If I remember correctly, the missionaries sang with some sort of beat or drum and the Africans were very upset saying that they gave up that jungle junk when they got saved!!
I think it may have been Tozer that told the story.
Before I got saved my whole life revolved around music, but once I got saved I became a new creature in Christ and the old things passed away. If people argue in favour of the "old things" I usually doubt their salvation to be honest.
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Post by lizlovesjesus on Apr 1, 2006 11:25:55 GMT -5
And what part of Africa was that?This kinda reminds me of missionaries coming to Africa to preach the gospel and Africans who got saved thinking that they had to take English names when they got baptized.i think thats the same thing as rejecting the music they rejected their names.Nowhere in the bible is there support for that!!!!!!!!!The old things that pass away are the ones that dont glorify God.
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 1, 2006 11:59:50 GMT -5
I think that there is another factor. The reason I don't like Christian rap is because it sounds like worldly rap, which represents illicit sex, drugs, greed, killing, beating wives, etc... this also goes with rock music, it represents a lot of drug influence and sex. To take music that traditionally represents the world and try to make it Christian bothers me. I am not sure where I stand on this but I do know that I won't listen to it because it doesn't sound any different than the worlds music. If I was listening to that and some people I had preached to walked by they would think I listened to the same music as them. Or if another Christian walked by they would think that. In 1 Thessalonians 5:22 it says to "abstain from all appearance of evil." I just don't want to appear as though I listen to worldly music that supports all the sin that I preach against. It would probably not bother me if the music was taken from a genre that did not advocate sin (I cannot think of any currently except for the theme song to Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood ;D). As for African drum beats, I am not sure because I do not know the things that the original songs advocated.
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Post by tomah on Apr 1, 2006 12:05:19 GMT -5
That's a valid point sister. If I was sittin in a traffic jam in my car and someone walked by, they would hear the old fashioned hymns and stuff, but if I had any type of CCM they would think I was just the same as any other young fella.
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Post by Grant on Apr 1, 2006 12:35:18 GMT -5
I agree those are all good points... To add to the list of experiences, when I went to Ghana (Africa) a couple years ago, the congregations played their style of beats and danced their style of dancing, (which was awesome I must say!). Now they are intrigued by what the USA plays and want to include it as well, but these people were in full worship to GOD Almighty and didn't seem to have any reserves on playing the cultural music (though made Christian). And if we played hymns, they probably wouldn't connect or understand it. Hence why I'm still a bit confused...
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 1, 2006 12:59:52 GMT -5
Liz what part of Africa are you from?
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Post by kingkid on Apr 3, 2006 10:14:41 GMT -5
Christian rap sounds like secular rap? The beats may have some resemblence, but so does Christian rock, urban, and pop. I heard a Phillips, Craig, and Dean song that resembled secular country music, which illicits DEPRESSION!! I think people get turned off because of the tempo. Urban Christian music got it's roots from some jazz, which is secular. I too listen to different genre of Christian music. I don't hear complaints about how some of Hillsong's musics sounds like secular rock!!
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 3, 2006 10:30:50 GMT -5
I don't like Hillsongs music. Don't get me wrong, I just can't worship if I can't hear the words or if it sounds like worldly stuff. What is difficult is that I go to a Christian college and we have to go to chapel. At times the worship is fine but at other times it turns into a concert where the band is showing off their abilities and the music sounds like worldly music. That is not worship, that is glorifying man, not God. When I say glorifying man I mean, guitar solos, vocal solos meant to show off a persons voice. I love singing hymns though! What do you guys think about this...I was going to a church where the worship team would dress up all country and they would have a hoe down for worship. The pastor would play the mandolin and sing. I was amazed because every time he finished singing everyone would whistle and clap and scream. They were doing that for him not God. Another thing...HOw do you feel about clapping after music is played? I know many worship leaders will say clap for the LORD, or all glory to God when the congregation claps. Who are they clapping for really? The band or for the glory of God?
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Post by Josh Parsley on Apr 3, 2006 10:59:17 GMT -5
I have no problem with clapping. Our church is actually quite clap-happy. EDIT: as long as it is for God... You can do any action that may look "religious" with a wrong motive.
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