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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 1, 2006 10:28:05 GMT -5
To twist the tables on the issue of sexuality...well, that's simply ignorance. How are you turning the tables on sexuality? I don't understand what you are trying to do here. You have said nothing that qualifies as turning the tables, as a matter of fact, you seem to not have said anything new at all. Ok, but we are attempting to define moraliy/immorality so this doesn't get us any closer. Besides which, what about those of us who don't give the Bible legal/moral authority? Oh dear, the breeders aren't going to like that (j/k). Unless you are sending the unmarried, widows/widowers, and divorcees to hell, you need to clarify your sentence by saying that "unless you are married, sex with someone other that that..." Because as it stands right now, your statement 'obviously' claims delusion for everyone outside of marraige, regardless of sexual activity or lack thereof. REPENT!
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 17:07:14 GMT -5
LOL. REPENT!!!!!!!
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 0:27:41 GMT -5
This is all you need on this topic:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 1:17:43 GMT -5
This is all you need on this topic: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version) 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. This old thing again? Please scroll back through the myriad other homosexuality threads. We've addressed this along with every other Biblical passage that mentions homosexuality.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 10:20:20 GMT -5
Again, this is all you need on this topic:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 10:38:57 GMT -5
Again, this is all you need on this topic: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version) 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Actually, I think this right here is all you need on that particular topic. Or if you don't like that one, perhaps you will enjoy this. Or what about this one? Did you not believe me when I said that point had been addressed and refuted? But by all means, continue posting it. I sincerely doubt that I will run out of cross-referrences to link you to and this makes my job easier because I do not have to respond to any new arguments.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 11:06:21 GMT -5
It's the truth of Scriptures, this is all you need. Whether you accept this as fact, it's not material if you do or not. The reality is you'll be judged on the truth as stated by Christ.
If you're both bored with the topics or truth, I'm not clear why you're on here. I think deep down both of you (morluna/val) are fearful of judgement. You should be. I am. That's why you're hanging around on this board. But you're too prideful to accept the truth. At this point, you'd rather die for your lusts, die for your sins--and you'll get exactly what you want. You will be judged and condemned by God if you don't repent and trust Jesus.
You can believe, if you want, you can jump off a 20 story building and fly around the city. You can believe this all you want. And you can contend that no god would permit you to fall, because he's loving. But this won't change the fact that you'll drop like a rock.
You can believe there's no God. Believe this all you want. This will not change the fact you'll be judged and sentenced to Hell, unless you repent and trust Jesus. Everything you need on this subject is disclosed to you in the Scripture I've previously recited--twice--this is all you need to know.
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Post by valentine on May 2, 2006 11:34:29 GMT -5
I'm here for two reasons: 1. You all amuse me very much and 2. I have met some good friends and interesting people here. I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth about my motivations. I do not fear your god. Since you've yet to address any of the three links I detailed above, here is another one for you. I think you will find that the "truth of the scriptures" has been shown to be significantly different from your understanding of such. If you wish to use these biblical passages to justify an opposition to homosexuality, very well, but at least qualify your statements with the assertion that this is your personal interpretation that is not widely accepted, by either Christians or otherwise. If you are going to propagate a faulty translation of a Bible verse, at least do this with full knowledge of your misinformation. Interpret your holy book any way you choose: your translation will remain inaccurate and I will remain unconvinced. This is assuming that I even accept the Bible as a valid tool of moral reasoning, which I do not, but even if I did, your arguments have been proven unfounded. Please do some research and stop posting things that have nothing to do with the topic. I don't know if you're just trying to make your posts longer but it's not helping your case. I am well aware of what will happen if I jump off a twenty-story building and I fail to see the relevance to the Corinthians discussions that I linked you to. I also fail to recall postulating that god did not exist in my attempt to explain the error of your scripture interpretation. For the record, I do not believe in the non-existence of god(s). Once again, I will thank you not to put words in my mouth.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 14:03:49 GMT -5
Val, you disclose who you are by you thoughts vis a' vis your postings. Anything that's comes out of you heart translates to your keyboard. My God is your God. Whether you want to believe this or not. You'll be judged by our God. Then I suggest you'll fear Him.
How hard is it to interpret this? Can you not understand this?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version)
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Here, let me put it to you in modern English:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom.
Here's another--is this not clear enough for you? How hard is this to understand?
Romans 1:18-32 (Holman Christian Standard Bible) 18 For God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, 19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. 21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles. 24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural. 27 The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty for their perversion. 28 And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong. 29 They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, disputes, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful. 32 Although they know full well God's just sentence—that those who practice such things deserve to die —they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
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Post by elwing96 on May 2, 2006 14:11:17 GMT -5
Val, you disclose who you are by you thoughts vis a' vis your postings.
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Post by wkufan on May 2, 2006 15:44:34 GMT -5
Val, you disclose who you are by you thoughts vis a' vis your postings. Doesn't annoy me at all. She's already commented she has no regard what God says. I'm only concerned for her eternal well-being and any other unsaved person on here. I've said my piece, reflected the truth of God's word--I'm not demanding anyone accept it. That's not up to me. I truly feel sorry for those who have willfully rejected God. All one has to do is revisit the passage in Romans I cited above to determine the ramifications. You don't play counter-debate (devil's advocate, as you put it) with insulting the royality or holiness of God. She and others have read the truth as described by God. Whether or not these folks repent, turn from their sin and trust Jesus is outside of my authority.
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Post by Jules on May 2, 2006 19:21:38 GMT -5
For the record, I do not believe in the non-existence of god(s). Once again, I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. Valetine, homosexuality, yours or anyone else's is really not the issue, or what is going to send you to hell. Just ONE LIE will send you to hell. You've fallen short already from God's law in doing just that. So it really isn't beneficial to "play the homosexual card" in the hopes you will repent. All it does it open debate to why it is wrong, etc. Lying is wrong, stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, pride is wrong. You are probably guilty of all those too. Do you want to justify all those sins as well? Because that is what you will be doing on judgment day - justifying your sins and lack of repentance to a holy and good God. His goodness is what prompts Him to punish for sins, unlike what most believe when they say because God is good He will simply overlook our sins. His justice demands He repay us for our sins. It isn't as if He is condeming everyone without offering a means of escape. But until you realize that your sins are what will send you to hell, and that nothing you do on your own will ever change that, you will be in a state of deception. The message of the Cross will be foolishness to you. Making a mockery of repentance, all of you unbeleivers on this board, is mocking God. The ABILITY TO EVEN REPENT is a GOFT of God and yet you guys mock that gift. We all deserve to be cut into a thousand pieces and burn in hell forever. But God in His MERCY sent Christ to take the punishment, if we repent. And you guys mock that gift. I have had enough. I rebuke ALL of you in the Name of Christ. May God weed out the goats who will never repent from this forum immediately for profaning His holy Name and trampling the blood of Christ underfoot. And may He have mercy on those who will repent.
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 17:35:28 GMT -5
i think i shall liven up this top with something new, and if someone has already heard this argument then feel free to stop me in the future so my time is not wasted.
homosexuality is a heated topic in the bible, no doubt, but i believe it to be of cultural relavence only. for example, i believe it to be in the same category as women shall not enter temples, and men shall not have long hair. other examples are piercings and tattoos. however, to provide evidence of this i must seek a reversal-role angle.
consider this: god created adam and eve. two people, right? god did not create adam and eve and ten thousand other people 'in the beginning.' so, by establishing this fact, we know that the first humans in the judeo-christian creation story practiced incest to populate the world. however, it was not until leviticus did god outlaw incest. this is not directly related to the topic, nor does it take on the same pattern but i want everyone to see a common thread in this. one action was acceptable, then prohibited. another example, if you need more than one, is that god used to punish the sons and daughters of sinners down to the fourth and fifth generation. however, in ezekiel, he promised not to do it anymore.
the point is why couldn't it be the same for the opposite?
why can't cultural laws change over time as culture changes?
tattoos, piercings, hair, clothing, etc. are all examples of cultural practices that change over time. so, the next question is why can't homosexuality be included in this section? first of all, homosexuality is not a crime. homosexuality does not hurt anyone, and that is usually what separates righteousness from sin.
i conclude, althuogh i would like to debate this later if anyone would like to add more (i thought i would just spice it up) by saying that if you want to prohibit homosexuality because a two thousand year old book says its wrong, then you will also have to say that long hair on men, anything but dresses on women, tattoos and piercings are all abominations of god.
i want any christian to admit to me that god hates all of these things. if not, then accept homosexuality for a cultural change as it is. there is nothing wrong with it.
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