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Post by messengermicah on Jun 25, 2008 23:01:33 GMT -5
Jesse,
I met with John Duncan last Friday and he claims the articles he has on his website from Leon Stump refuting Finney/Moral Government are irrefutable.
He claims no one has ever responded to his challenge to refute them because they cannot be refuted.
Why don't you take up the challenge?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 25, 2008 23:06:33 GMT -5
I have been planning on it for a while.
The articles are very long though. And he very badly misrepresents or misunderstands MGT.
I figured that the best defense of MGT is actually teaching MGT from the Bible, which is why I started that booklet series. People need to see how Biblical the moral government of God is.
Nevertheless, I do hope to critique these articles by Stump eventually. I have read them over many times and have never been impressed with them. His arguments are not very strong, his exegetical interpretations of Scriptures is weak, and he often misunderstands or misrepresents Finney.
John Duncan will be the first to know when I critique these articles. I might start with the atonement one. But it is a matter of time, and such a challenge requires a lot of it.
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Post by johneduncan on Jul 1, 2013 12:01:18 GMT -5
I have been waiting and waiting for many year for any moral government believer to systematically respond t these articles. If they are soo easy why has nobody done it? All I get (not from my good friend jesse!) is ad hominem arguments.
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Post by johneduncan on Jul 1, 2013 12:08:59 GMT -5
I think you would have to start with the first article on sinful nature, nature of man, born sinner or what ever it is called as you know all logically flows from that.... Leon and I do not see exactly eye to eye on the atonement but I am in definite disagreement with moral influence/governmental view being the main issue in Jesus atonement. I believe they are aspect but the classical/ransom/christus victor view I settled on a few years ago. I am not sure how to classify Stumps maybe a penal view. Atonement is my favorite theological subject (I claim am no expert) and the book of views on the atonement by www.amazon.com/The-Nature-Atonement-Four-Views/dp/0830825703 might be my favorite book ever. Boyd nailed it for me.
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