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Post by john316 on Aug 5, 2008 19:59:37 GMT -5
Did Jesus go immediately to the desert after his baptism (Mark 1:12-13), or did he first go to Galilee, see disciples, and attend a wedding (John 1:35, 43; 2:1-11).
In the synoptic gospels Jesus is said to have been baptized, then tempted in the wilderness, and after John the Baptist was put in prison Jesus is said to have called his disciples. Mark 1:14-20. Now in John 3:22-24. it is said that Jesus had disciples before John was put into prison.
It seems to me like a clear contradiction. I tried to work on it. but found no answers. see if you can debunk this one.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 6, 2008 17:55:16 GMT -5
Remind me if I don't reply to this within a day or so. I want to answer but I don't have time right now. I'm afraid if I don't post something on here, I'll forgot.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 6, 2008 21:59:32 GMT -5
Ok, I've got a little more time now. Rather than just lay it out how I see it, I'll just ask this question. Why do you think that the Gospel Of John is describing the moment the Spirit came on Jesus? Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. It sounds like John is relaying something that happened in the past. These are quotes from John so these things happened in the past from the prospective of the Baptist. In other words, it had happened before John spake it, not at the same time.
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Post by john316 on Aug 6, 2008 23:07:59 GMT -5
yup i just came across that. but what puzzles me is whether Jesus had disciples before John the Baptist was in prison or after. there still seems to be a conflict between John 3:22-24 and the synoptic gospels. God give us wisdom to think this one out
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Post by debonnaire on Aug 8, 2008 5:13:51 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus had disciples before The Baptist went in prison [some of these disciples were former John the Baptist 's disciples]. We can see this in the gospel of John, some of the Baptist 's disciples began to follow Jesus instead...
Later on, when Jesus called his disciples [12 to be always with him ] in the 3 synoptic gospels , they were already his disciples. But he prayed and chose these 12 to be always with him.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 8, 2008 17:29:07 GMT -5
It appears that Andrew and Simon were originally disciples of John. That is where they were introduced to Jesus and even spent some time with him. They went back fishing and when Jesus came back to Galilee he told them to come and follow him.
When Jesus met them fishing, it wasn't the first time they had met.
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Post by louisberard on Aug 14, 2014 18:41:13 GMT -5
I didn't read the other posts, but my quick reply is this. Simon Greenleaf is considered the Author/Founder of our legal system's rules of evidence. He set out to disprove the Gospel accounts, but because the Witness Testimony was so undeniably true (to one of America's greatest legal minds,) he was converted to Christianity. What you are thinking is contradictions, are actually just witness accounts from different people that were either witnesses of the same thing, or were second hand witnesses of these events (Life of Jesus.) The fact that some things are in some Gospels and not in others, or that timelines are not exactly the same, actually strengthen the veracity of the Gospel writers. In real life, witnesses that saw the same a week ago, will have similar discrepancies based on individual perceptions and focus. The fact that the Gospel writers had these differences (which do not in any way contradict each other,) written years after the events, only shows that they were writing truthfully. If everyone's story is exactly the same, that means they got together and concocted a story. That's why the "Father " of our Rules for evidence was so convinced that he converted to a follower of Jesus.
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Post by Louie B on Jul 31, 2015 20:06:55 GMT -5
Simon Greenleaf, (Father of American rules of evidence, and master of witness testimony,) was converted to Christianity by reading the four gospel witness testimonies. You see, only contrived false witness reports by several people on the same event or events line up exactly with perfect chronological synchronicity. If one reports he went to the desert, and the other reports he went some where else, it is not a contradiction. It is true he went to both places. One witness, may have left out one event, and or not been aware of it. So you see, the fact that the witness testimony basically tells the same truths, but are not carbon copies of each other, and some leave out details that others put in, shows that these are honest believable testimonies. Not the reverse. Ever do the test where someone runs into a room and does something loud and crazy and then runs out, and then everyone is asked to describe what happened and what the person looked like and how he was dressed? There is inevitably numerous different witness testimonies on this one brief act, due to different people seeing different things and paying attention to different things. Piecing together all the witness testimony gives you a richer, testimony, then just getting it from one person, and inevitably a truer testimony. the fact that the gospels are so similar, yet have different events recorded too, proved to Simon Greenleaf that this was true testimony, that must be believed.
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