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Post by davidvalley on Oct 13, 2008 22:15:49 GMT -5
I have a question.
Now from what I hear becoming under the influence of alcohol and marijuana is a sin.
Woulnd't drinking and eating caffeine be a sin as well then? It keeps you awake meaning you are under the influence of it. Sure it is not as dangerous as drugs or alcohol but it is not natural in any way.
Where do you all stand on that?
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 14, 2008 2:13:32 GMT -5
The great difference between marihuana or being under the influence of alcohol or other drugs And caffeine is that caffeine does not alter your mind and your personality. What alters personality or blurs the mind , or is an addiction or is an hindrance to the communion with the living God is sin. Caffeine is natural in coffee I think , and acts only on the body , not on the soul or the spirit. Caffeine does not change who you really are, like marihuana of the abuse of alcohol can do.
Some Christians do not take coffee at all (or other things) for conscience sake , while the others (the majority I think) drink coffee. Caffeine is not an hindrance to relationship and communion with the living God. It should be taken reasonably though ... after all there are countries where people do not drink coffee but tea or other... Christians all agree (or should to) that this matter of food and (healthy) beverages is a secondary point for us and that the importance is faith and mutual acceptance in Jesus. Anyway, that’s what the new testament teaches....
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Post by davidvalley on Oct 14, 2008 2:58:45 GMT -5
So what about Tobacco? Cigarettes do not alter your mine. Sure they are unhealthy for you but then again so is Caffeine.
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Post by debonnaire on Oct 14, 2008 5:59:12 GMT -5
Yes smoking normal cigarettes does not alter your mind and personality , but tobacco is not only very harmful for the body, it is also very addictive. Better never begin ... ;D We can't say the same thing of a good cup of coffee when taken reasonably. There are persons who can't stand coffee though, so i think it is more a matter of common 'wisdom' that can be applied...
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Post by dale on Oct 14, 2008 19:20:59 GMT -5
If you think caffeine cannot alter the mind or behavior,, you should see me when strung out on coffee....
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Post by Morluna on Oct 14, 2008 21:17:44 GMT -5
Yes smoking normal cigarettes does not alter your mind and personality , but tobacco is not only very harmful for the body, it is also very addictive. Better never begin ... ;D We can't say the same thing of a good cup of coffee when taken reasonably. There are persons who can't stand coffee though, so i think it is more a matter of common 'wisdom' that can be applied... I'm sorry sir, but I must disagree with you on the point that cigarettes are "very addictive." They simply are not. The Just Say No Club and DARE programs will tell you this crap all day long; that cigarettes and all illegal drugs are REALLY addictive and bad bad bad for you. I remember in 5th grade being warned by a DARE representative that ONE cigarette; ONE... was all it took to be addicted. Several years later when I experimentally tried it for myself in high school, I found the menthol cigarette I smoked to be... rather unremarkable; not too strong on the lungs or at all addictive. I remember feeling a little deceived by that DARE lady... Later on in college I discovered these remarkable little cancer sticks called clove cigs (Djarum Blacks are the BEST; they taste like Christmas potpourri smells, SO YUMMY), toasted cavendish pipe tobacco, and my personal favorite smoking experience... the Egyptian hookah. (Hookah tobacco has relatively the same effect on most people as does marijuana, so it's a good legal alternative; plus shisha smells AND tastes much better IMO.) I also like the occasional cigar. But to this day, regular cigarettes are just... not my cup of tea. They're just really boring and gross tasting. If I'm going to contribute to my eventual likelihood of developing lung cancer, you better bet I'm going to make the most of that experience and do only the best tasting stuff, LOL. Also, smoking is definitely a social experience for me, so I prefer to smoke things that take a long time to smoke, that can be smoked around a table while chatting with friends. Another reason I love the hookah; you can hook up several hoses, one for each smoker, and all share the yummy. But back to my main point... the idea that cigarettes are very addictive is just a flat out lie. I have been smoking, on and off, for about three years now. Sometimes I'll get in the mood for smoking for about a week or so, and go through two packs of Djarums in a week. One of the characters I cosplay at media conventions is a cigar smoker (lol, see avatar pic), and when I'm in her costume I'm constantly puffing cigars all weekend. If you could get addicted to nicotine through consistent use over a short period of time... I would surely be hooked by now. But I'm not. Currently, I haven't smoked ANYTHING in about... 2 months. I don't need it, or even want it really. But I know the next time I'm at a party or out with friends somewhere, if I have them, I'll probably smoke a clove or two, or have a pipe. *shrug* It's just really not that serious, you guys. It's really not. If you personally don't want to smoke, fine. I understand. It's bad for your health. I know this. I, personally... don't care. I enjoy it, on occasion. When I do it, it relaxes me and is an experience I enjoy having. If I ever got to the point where I felt I *needed* it, I would stop immediately. But, it's not a problem for me, and I don't forsee it ever being one. Now, keep in mind that what I am talking about here is OCCASIONAL USAGE, and not... 3 packs a day. Anyone who needs a cigarette every two hours is clearly addicted either physically or on a psychological "need" level. I do think that is unhealthy. But I think that's unhealthy when dealing with ANY substance, so... to my point about coffee. I personally, have a BAD coffee addiction. Or I used to. I've really curbed it over the last year or so by just having it in the morning on the way to and while at work, and then not making it again later in the day. My problem is that I get very cold easily, and I just like having something warm to drink and hold in my hands. Also, I just LOVE coffee. I love the taste of it. It's my chocolate. But when I found myself getting up to NINE CUPS A DAY at one point in college, I knew I had a problem. I decided I had to stop. So... I went cold turkey. No coffee for 30 days. That was the goal. I did it, but OH MAN DID IT SUCK. I had, to my great surprise and concern, actual substance withdrawals. I had shakes, headaches, insomnia, irritability, the whole works... for about the first 2 weeks. And then it started getting better. So, as you can see, for me personally... caffeine is a much more dangerous addiction than nicotine. Interesting, hm? So anyway... That's just my two cents on nicotine usage. I could go on, and I fear I already have gone too long for most people's attention spans. If you read this far, I applaud you for your patience to keep up with my ramblings, lol. But, anyway... if you want to talk about it more, please do. Also, marijuana should be legal. It's far less harmful for you than tobacco. Especially when compared to all the extra crap like tar and sawdust they put in cigarettes. (Another reason I'm not too fond of them) In fact, it's actually pretty good for you in moderation. It's medicinal properties are very useful. For instance, it helps with cramps, headaches, and fatigue related to PMS, as well as being a relief for migraine sufferers and people with stress-related illnesses. I should also add, I do not condone the use of hard drugs. Crack, regular cocaine, meth, heroin, PCP, LSD, Ecstasy; all that crap. NO. THANKS. In the first place, it's all synthetically created ick, some of which CAN kill you the first time you use it. Meth... is just disgusting. Anything that involves ammonia and liquid Draino has no place near my lungs. PCP makes you an indestructible psychopath just long enough for you to rip your own face off and have a heart attack. I'll pass. LSD makes you think you can fly so you go happily leaping off of buildings and making swift friends with the sidewalk. Hm, sounds fun until the sidewalk part. So, yeah... definitely not in favor of legalizing all those kind of things. - Laura
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Post by dale on Oct 15, 2008 9:08:05 GMT -5
You need to get addicted to Jesus.
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Post by Morluna on Oct 15, 2008 12:58:47 GMT -5
You need to get addicted to Jesus. I hope he doesn't expect us to approach him as an addiction... that's... scary. :/ But I don't worry that he does because I've actually read the Bible, and that's not want he wants. You should try it sometime; reading can be very informative. ;D
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Post by evilart on Oct 15, 2008 14:57:07 GMT -5
You can see plenty of addicts for Christ and where it leads right here on the board with people like Micah and such.
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Post by Morluna on Oct 15, 2008 15:00:00 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly. I don't think having the mind of an addict (read: rabid zealot) is the best way to lead the Christian life. Case in point; most of the members here.
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Post by Bornagain218 on Oct 25, 2008 20:11:54 GMT -5
I personally don't drink caffeine, whether it be in soda, coffee or tea. I also don't take and sort of energy drink. I hate how someone needs about five cups of the stuff just to get their day started, almost depended on it.
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Post by fs on Oct 26, 2008 8:17:52 GMT -5
Jesus provides the only boost I need.
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Post by spookygook on Nov 25, 2008 23:26:06 GMT -5
jesus and pot, nothing better.. the love i have for jesus is great and proud so when my mom smokes pot with me my dinkle feels strange, i hate how people are so dependant on coffee in the morning too. its like just get over it weirdo
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Post by Kureji on Dec 1, 2008 11:28:46 GMT -5
...your dinkle? Interesting. Ever read Oedipus Rex?
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Post by emmanuel on Dec 6, 2008 20:21:34 GMT -5
What alters personality or blurs the mind , or is an addiction or is an hindrance to the communion with the living God is sin. Caffeine is natural in coffee I think , and acts only on the body , not on the soul or the spirit. Caffeine does not change who you really are, like marihuana of the abuse of alcohol can do.
This total nonsense....Jesus said... Mark 7:15. There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
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Post by jreamable on Dec 10, 2008 21:29:02 GMT -5
Hey, be careful not to get legalistic! Just dont be mastered by caffein ya know
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Post by fs on Dec 11, 2008 10:53:26 GMT -5
Jesus fills your every need when you receive his grace and forgiveness.
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Post by debonnaire on Dec 11, 2008 11:04:51 GMT -5
What alters personality or blurs the mind , or is an addiction or is an hindrance to the communion with the living God is sin. Caffeine is natural in coffee I think , and acts only on the body , not on the soul or the spirit. Caffeine does not change who you really are, like marihuana of the abuse of alcohol can do. This total nonsense....Jesus said... Mark 7:15. There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. what does "this total nosense" is supposed to mean Emmanuel ? Can you explain a bit more ?
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Post by debonnaire on Dec 12, 2008 7:23:45 GMT -5
Okay, let’s be straightforward
[quote author=emmanuel Mark 7:15. There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. [/quote]
This quote is great. However one has to understand why Jesus said it. Jesus was teaching here about what true holiness is , versus false holiness. Jesus ‘ main intent was not to teach about food, but used the example of food to teach about what true holiness is. Jesus did not said that primarily to teach on what is good to be ingested and what is not.
This was given in a time where there was no coffee no marijuanah at least in Israel. There was wine though , and we know by the new testament that the first church was not forbidden to drink wine, but not to be drank of wine , or dependent of wine, and not to be enslaved to anything.
So what about coffee and marijuanah ? That was the topic of this thread , Emmanuel , the great verse you have thrown in does not justify what you have said about “that is nosense”.
It is not because a man is pure, that he can do everything , and ingest everything , even if he has the faith that it won’t harm him.
Questions : -> Can a man be pure and smoke marijuanah and stay pure even if he had no guile in his heart and mouth ? Of course such a man won't stay pure, because he will have to repent so that the full communion with the living Lord be restored. -> Is it possible for believers to drink coffee ? And if yes, how much ? That is the kind of questions that began this thread ...
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Post by praiseforaids on Dec 22, 2008 19:16:51 GMT -5
Coffee is a drug. Unacceptable in the eyes of the lord. Treat your body like a temple - many of my fellow open air preachers indulge in the drug known as FOOD which does alter the mind (fullness vs. hunger, happiness) and the physical temple. Only the strongest of hellfires await those who await on anything aside from JESUS himself every morning!
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Severian
New Member
Master of l?esprit d?escalier.
Posts: 10
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Post by Severian on Dec 29, 2008 0:31:23 GMT -5
If doing drugs is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Post by alberta74 on Dec 23, 2017 5:34:19 GMT -5
I completely agree that coffee is a drug and about treating your body like a temple. My cousin has been working with a top Los Angeles DUI lawyer for many years now and he has told me anything when done in excessive amounts can be really harmful.
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