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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 8, 2009 18:43:51 GMT -5
Brother Jed is a Christian author and a confrontational open air preacher. He was a College Professor turned Hippie in the 60’s. He was converted to Christ in the early 70’s. He has been traveling and preaching open-air full time on University campuses for over thirty years, starting back in 1975. He would often preach with Holy Hubert Lindsey when Hubert was still alive and preaching.
He has written a total of five books: Who Will Rise Up” which is an autobiography; “Grieve Not the Spirit” a treatise on sin, righteousness, and judgment; “Walking in the Spirit” a commentary on Romans 6, 7, and 8; “The Mystery of Christ Revealed: The Key to Understanding Predestination”, a Commentary on Romans 9, 10, 11, and Ephesians; and “Gold in the furnace: South Africa on trial”.
BROTHER JED SMOCK QUOTES
“The Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Evangelicals, alike, have a common flaw – they have quenched the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit. They have contrived new and better methods to win the world to Christ. These methods speak little on the subjects of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. Much is said of God’s love and willingness to accept the sinner just as he is. This new way attracts large numbers to the Churches. It also enables Christians to escape the persecution that Jesus promised would come…” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“The true message must warn men that they are judged guilty and in danger of eternal jeopardy. One only offers pardon to those who are already condemned, not to those who insist they have never done anything deserving hell.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not the Spirit)
“Evangelists would better serve the Church if they would challenge people to question their salvation in light of the conditions of justification, instead of attempting to give assurance of salvation.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“Some say, ‘But I don’t think that you ought to call them queers.’ ‘Well, you ought not to call them ‘gay’. God calls them abominable.’ When Christians use the term ‘gay’, they have sided with the perverts against God. These sodomites do not need our sympathy, they need the Truth which can set them free! Others will say, ‘But what about calling people whores and whoremongers? That is not nice!” No, it is not nice. Sin is a mean and deadly. One day a girl who claimed to be a Christian admitted that she was having ‘relations’ with her boyfriend. ‘Your going to have to stop fornicating,’ I said. ‘Oh, don’t use that word,’ the girl protested, ‘that makes our relationship sound ugly.” There is something ugly about the word “fornication”…. Students in human sexuality courses will discuss the merits and demerits of ‘premarital sexual relations’ but the Bible calls it whoredom. In class they discuss ‘extramarital relations’ or ‘an open marriage,’ but the Bible calls it adultery. The devil paints a pretty picture of sin, but the Gospel preacher peels back the paint and shows the ugly reality of lawlessness. Jed Smock (Who Will Rise Up)
“Debate and dialogue are two of the many tactics we use to gain and hold the crowd’s attention.” Jed Smock (Who Will Rise Up)
“...the over-eager proselytizer says, ‘Jesus died for all your sins – past, present, and future. Now all you have to do is accept it.’ The cross is presented as a cheap and easy fire escape instead of that great act of benevolence which was intended to break the power of sin and subdue the heart of the unrighteous.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“No rational being could be convinced that God is righteous if a believer is automatically forgiven for future sins.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“Teaching that God’s moral law is impossible to keep is another contemporary heresy which thwarts the Holy Spirit’s attempts to convince man that God is righteous. How could a righteous God give a law to man that he knew man could not keep and threaten him with eternal damnation for disobedience? Such a God would not be just, but a tyrant and a despot.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“Antinomians like to appeal to Romans 6:14 out of context: “…for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” But the first part of this verse is rarely quoted by the lawless: “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” What is sin still does have dominion over a person? What is he under – law or grace? Law! The individual sinning daily in thought, word, and /or deed is under law.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“...those who are not obeying the gospel but are continuing to sin, need either to repent and start living righteously – thus qualifying for the name Christian – or cease playing the hypocrite and calling themselves Christians.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“If a man still practices sin after claiming salvation, from what does he think he has been saved? Certainly not from sin. Jesus did not come to save us ‘in our sins’ but ‘from our sins” You went on to say a few pages later “There is much confusion on the subject of perfection because of a failure to make a proper distinction between purity and maturity. Perfection refers to purity. When a man is born again he is as perfect as he is ever going to be, but certainly is not mature. The rosebud is just as perfect as the full blown rose. There is a definite sense in which we are being sanctified or growing in grace (maturity). I make no claims to be a full blown rose yet; neither am I still a rosebud!” Jed Smock (Who Will Rise Up)
“Multitudes in the Church are deceived into thinking that sin will not condemn those who have been born again because they are sealed by the Holy Spirit. But they need to remember that they were sealed after hearing and believing the truth. Should they reject the truth and return to sin, the seal or bond between the believer and God is broken. Alas, those who are doing despite the Spirit of Grace will not see the day of redemption, but only the day of perdition.” Jed Smock (Grieve Not The Spirit)
“… there is no plausible way that the wretched-slave existence describe in Chapter 7 [of Romans] can be simultaneously experienced with the victory and freedom described in Romans 6 and 8.” You went on to say a few pages after, “Let us never get the glorious portrait of the Christian of Romans 6 and 8 confused with the ugly sketch of the sinner of Romans 7 trying, but failing, to serve God under the law.” Jed Smock (Walking In The Spirit)
“Paul teaches that sin is a choice, not a causation dwelling somewhere in the depth of our person.” Jed Smock (Walking In The Spirit)
“God always knew that he was going to have a people, but he did not know before, which individuals would respond to his universal call.” Jed Smock (The Mystery of Christ Revealed)
“The Calvinists doctrine [of decrees] makes God out to be tyrannical, despotic, inscrutable, arbitrary, capricious, and rigid. One who is not primarily moved by love but simply ‘the good pleasure of his will’. Certainly a person might fear such an entity, but how could anyone be attracted to such an offensive God, who would damn most of the human race merely ‘for the good pleasure of his will,’ independently of any good or evil that these pitiful creatures have done. This God is not good and benevolent, but cruel and malicious… Calvinism makes God the author of sin, he chooses its existence when it did not exist. He becomes the most unholy being in the universe – the cause and source of all wickedness and misery. Adam did not fall, he was shoved, was not deceived by the devil, but by the bully God of Calvinism… Everything our conscience tells us is good and right, the God of Calvinism violates.” Jed Smock (The Mystery of Christ Revealed)
“When Paul spoke critically of the works of the law, he did not have in mind the law of love, which he always promoted, which will never be abolished in this life or the one to come. He was critical of the dead works of the Jewish ritualist.” Jed Smock (The Mystery of Christ Revealed)
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Post by fs on Feb 9, 2009 15:37:48 GMT -5
Jesse, this friend of yours is arrogant, insulting and doing a disservice to Christianity with statements such as these. I am, however, keen to hear YOUR explanation or justification if the same and looking at this post with an open mind in case somehow I am missing something. I am not here to argue, but truly would like to hear some backup to justify which, at least from Christianity as I understand it, contradicts the bulk of what this man says.
1. Who does he think he is! Assuming the objective is to get homosexuals to receive Jesus and repent, how is he going to do so by calling them queers! This is pure idiocy! In fact, I would ,like to have seen him call some former associates of mine this name to their faces, in a men's room, an alley or someplace where there were no witnesses and see how he would end up. You all are offended by being called fanatics, fools and weirdos or worse, as I am also when trying to witness. This offends you, yet you still take no consideration for others with this foam at the mouth and name calling preaching style. Just how do you figure this edifies Christ or makes people want to be saved?
Please address these issues here, as I am really interested in some answers and to hear your thoughts on what he has said and WHY this is accurate or good.
Likewise, am I getting what you say right. At churches such as the Baptists, when people make an altar call and give their hearts to Jesus you are saying they are not saved at that moment? What? They must go clean up their acts and then ask to be saved? What if there is not time ?
This idea of being able to live a sinless life sounds absurd. Is this not pride to boast that YOU no longer sin?
I will say this, Smock sees Calvinist theory as nonsense and I will agree with him here. I will give him that and be fair to him.
I am interested in your explanation and justification of some of the rest of this . No need to argue. I would just like to hear and consider your answers.
I will so much as I can, try to keep an open heart and mine and hear what you have to say.
Yo me, some if the things this man says wreak of arrogance and are to me, unbecoming a Christian, period.
That is why I ask to hear your side as you know this man and I do not. To me he sounds like Phelps!
Also instead of putting so much emphasis on Paul should he not be placing more emphasis on the teaching of Jesus. Paul was, After all, a MAN.
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oaora
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Post by oaora on Feb 9, 2009 20:42:26 GMT -5
Well here's the thing. The sinless perfection doctrine that Jed preaches bothers me greatly. I don't believe that anyone can be sinlessly perfect. If you look at Jesus two great commands. I think that the rightful conclusion is that we are in a constant state of falling short. Please don't take this as I don't believe in Holy living....I do. I do not believe that Jed has come anywhere near the righteousness of Jesus Christ. As evidenced by his remarks and self reliance.
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
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Post by fs on Feb 9, 2009 20:59:14 GMT -5
Likewise, calling neighbors queers is really gonna make them want to come to Christ.
The more I read this, the more Smock sounds like a false prophet to me.
Like you, I am sure you are eager to hear the other side of the coin. I am all ears.
I keep thinking of "By your words you shall be comforted and by your words yous hall be condemned."
I do not find these Smock quotes "powerful." I find some of them egotistical and other points absurd.
Jesse stirred a hornet's nest by posting these words. Now he needs to deal with them and I mean with some good solid answers and not whining or complaining or saying "hypocrite." This argument gets old. He needs to answer instead of just banning and delaying posts he disagrees with.
We are all ears to have our questions about Brother Smock and his methods justified.....
Two of us now wait with ears open.....
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Post by Brother. Ross on Feb 9, 2009 23:48:23 GMT -5
fs, I am completely and utterly convinced that you are not a Christian.
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Post by fs on Feb 10, 2009 9:50:50 GMT -5
First off, who cares what you think! Second off, your name is Brother Ross, not Jesse, so who asked for your opinion concerning the questions I posed to Jesse (or Brother Smock if so inclined) on this thread, which you offer no answer to anyway, so I suppose it does not matter.
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Post by messengermicah on Feb 11, 2009 2:03:19 GMT -5
I agree with Saint Ross! I don't think you are a Christian either.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 11, 2009 7:51:52 GMT -5
I agree with Saint Ross! I don't think you are a Christian either. AGREE ALSO There are not much fruit that I can see in FS. You say that you believe that people have the right to murder babies. You agree with a man like OBAMA who goes against everything GOD stands for. You constantly belittle the TRUE PREACHING of the GOSPEL. You try to tickle the itching ears of nonbelievers (sinners) . You do not like to hear what sin truly is. Offended by the words, queer, whore, thieves, fornicator etc... This seems as though you are just trying to make sin seem so small. It is you who have from the beginning have constantly attacked the believers on this board. I believe you are doing the work of satan and you are demonized and do not know it. You have attacked many here and when someone corrects you you are so full of offense and rage. You will not hear me, but you need to repent and surrender your LIFE TO CHRIST fully. Matthew 7:16-20, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
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Post by fs on Feb 11, 2009 9:21:50 GMT -5
Again, who asked any of you! I was addressing Jesse to address the comments by Smock, NOT asking for feedback from any of you. What matters is what Jesus Christ thinks of me and NOT what any of you think of me, so quit trying to pump yourselves up at my expense.
And what kind of fruit do some of you bear in your street preaching and in your posts? Arrogance, pride, and other things where I could go on and on. Some of you are the funniest Christians I have ever seen and do a DISSERVICE to Jesus Christ.
Who are you to correct me. You are NOT mini Gods. You are mortals and sinners too, presume saved by the grace of Jesus Christ and I wonder deeply if some Of YOU are saved. Take the logs out of your own eyes.
As for fruit I bare, unless you follow me around how do you know what fruti I am baring?
If you know them by their fruits than I in turn will turn the tables and wonder about a few of you.
Get over yourselves and off your pedestal Put Christ here instead.
And keep some of rgw idiotic remarks off of here and let Jesse respond as he is the one I asked to hear from concerning these comments. I do NOT care whether some of you choose to consider me saved or not, so just shut up, back off and let Jesse or Brother Smock address the questions posed here.
I fear if some of you will face Jesus as it says and tell HIM you worked many miracles sin HIS name and HE will say "I never knew you!"
I pray this does bot happen.
I pray for some of you to find some good old fashioned humility before it is too late.
I think a few of YOU might be overestimating your own self importance
Now with that said, I have heard your posts and disagree with them. Stop making them. You have been heard and are being ignored.
I asked questions from Jesse and these were not addressed. I did not ask any of you for anything. So stop chiming in.
Let me hear Jesse or Brother Smock address my comments
I was not talking to any of you anyway and never was, so you need not chime in.
Notice too, it is always the same pack of four or five noisemakers>?
Find some humility.
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Post by fs on Feb 11, 2009 10:06:51 GMT -5
PS. If my "tickling the ears" of the nonbelievers means doing damage control over some of the idiotic antics some street preachers pull, to lead them to the true Jesus Christ, then SO BE IT
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Post by judgment on Feb 11, 2009 16:49:51 GMT -5
I am certain any unsaved person coming to this board wills read your comments and want to run right out and accept Jesus.
You all harm the cause of Christ.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 11, 2009 22:50:33 GMT -5
I like all the quotes very much.
And fs is clearly not saved...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 11, 2009 22:58:43 GMT -5
What I like most about Brother Jed is his doctrine of moral perfection in this life. There is no justifiable alternative. If we say that we cannot be perfect, we are giving an excuse. If we say God’s laws are impossible, we accuse Him of tyranny. If we say that Christians can’t stop sinning, we are limiting the powerful influence of the Holy Spirit.
The only reasonable, scriptural, justifiable conclusion is that God has given us the ability to be morally perfect in this life. Why wouldn’t He? God hates sin. God doesn’t want us to sin. Therefore God gives us the ability to be perfect in this life. God gives us His moral law and also gives our nature the ability of obeying His law. God gave our nature free will and conscience, and God also has given our minds and wills the influence of the Holy Spirit. Why would God convict us of sin if we couldn’t stop sinning?
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oaora
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Post by oaora on Feb 11, 2009 23:02:46 GMT -5
What I like most about Brother Jed is his doctrine of moral perfection in this life. There is no justifiable alternative. If we say that we cannot be perfect, we are giving an excuse. If we say God’s laws are impossible, we accuse Him of tyranny. If we say that Christians can’t stop sinning, we are limiting the powerful influence of the Holy Spirit. The only reasonable, scriptural, justifiable conclusion is that God has given us the ability to be morally perfect in this life. Why wouldn’t He? God hates sin. God doesn’t want us to sin. Therefore God gives us the ability to be perfect in this life. God gives us His moral law and also gives our nature the ability of obeying His law. God gave our nature free will and conscience, and God also has given our minds and wills the influence of the Holy Spirit. Why would God convict us of sin if we couldn’t stop sinning? It says in the Bible, that if we say we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves and the truth is NOT in us. I do believe that we can stop sinning.......and that a saved person will be sanctified. But I do not believe that a saved person will be sinless.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 11, 2009 23:33:00 GMT -5
What is the difference between being “sinless” and “stop sinning”??
We can never be sinless in the sense of saying that there is no sin on our record. We have all sinned. We cannot say that we have no sin, that is, on our record. But we can say that we have no rebellion against God in our hearts (no sin in our lives).
We can stop sinning. That is, we don’t have to sin every day in word, thought, or deed. We don’t have to have any sin in our life. All sin is avoidable. Temptation is never more than we can bear, it never exceeds our ability, we always have a way of escape. We can stop sinning, that is, we can be presently sinless or perfect. Sinfulness is having a heart of rebellion and disobedience. Sinlessness is having a heart of submission and obedience. If we cannot be sinless, we cannot stop our rebellion and disobedience. If we have to be sinful, we cannot submit to or obey God.
God’s commandments never exceed our ability. Our obligation is in perfect accordance with our ability. We are to love God “with all thy” and love our neighbor “as yourself”. Therefore, God’s commandments never exceed our ability. Since God’s commandments never exceed our ability, we have the ability of obeying God’s commandments. Moral perfection is obeying God’s commandments. Since we have the ability to obey God’s commandments, we have the ability to be morally perfect.
This is good news for everyone that hates sin! God, who hates sin, has made it possible for us to have lives entirely free from sin! Hallelujah!
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oaora
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Posts: 159
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Post by oaora on Feb 12, 2009 3:52:04 GMT -5
What is the difference between being “sinless” and “stop sinning”?? We can never be sinless in the sense of saying that there is no sin on our record. We have all sinned. We cannot say that we have no sin, that is, on our record. But we can say that we have no rebellion against God in our hearts (no sin in our lives). We can stop sinning. That is, we don’t have to sin every day in word, thought, or deed. We don’t have to have any sin in our life. All sin is avoidable. Temptation is never more than we can bear, it never exceeds our ability, we always have a way of escape. We can stop sinning, that is, we can be presently sinless or perfect. Sinfulness is having a heart of rebellion and disobedience. Sinlessness is having a heart of submission and obedience. If we cannot be sinless, we cannot stop our rebellion and disobedience. If we have to be sinful, we cannot submit to or obey God. God’s commandments never exceed our ability. Our obligation is in perfect accordance with our ability. We are to love God “with all thy” and love our neighbor “as yourself”. Therefore, God’s commandments never exceed our ability. Since God’s commandments never exceed our ability, we have the ability of obeying God’s commandments. Moral perfection is obeying God’s commandments. Since we have the ability to obey God’s commandments, we have the ability to be morally perfect. This is good news for everyone that hates sin! God, who hates sin, has made it possible for us to have lives entirely free from sin! Hallelujah! Sin is any transgression of the law. When someone gets saved there is a period of time. I would argue the entire rest of our lives, where we are made into the image of Christ. He is the potter and we are the clay. I hate sin....I hate the life I lead before I was saved. However I still lust, I still get angry sometimes, I don't love God the way He requires. I don't love my neighbor the way He requires. I do not fulfill to grand commandment in either the past present or future. But God is patent and reproves me of sin just like the Bible says. As I submit to Him I am conformed to His image. Sanctification is a process.......one day when we are in heaven we will be completely sinless. However Right now when we fall we will get back up....or a least a saved person will. Jes Smocks says he has no sin......but he's a lier because he sins every day. We are to confess our sins......pride Jesse pride. God resists the proud!!
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Post by fs on Feb 12, 2009 9:49:40 GMT -5
Thank you for your response at last, Jesse, though it is between God and myself and not God, myself and YOU whether I am saved or not. You also skirted the issue with the routine and now boring line questioning my salvation instead of fully addressing the questions I posed. Is this the best we can do here?
AS for the rest, I do not doubt your salvation Jesse, and Hod bless you in your ministry. may you be shown the right way on some issues where I feel you are in error. May the Lord lead you to these discoveries yourself.
I however can turn right around and say if you tell them by their fruit, Jed Smock is NOT saved.
MY advice, Jesse, is keep your eyes more on Jesus and less on Jed Smock.
May your actions in street teaching go well and may you be safe in your ventures.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 13, 2009 0:02:49 GMT -5
"I don't" is very different from "I can't".
Even if nobody was morally perfect, that does not negate the fact that we could be.
Even if nobody ever obeyed God, if everyone always disobeyed God, that does not negate the fact that we could obey God, that we don't have to disobey God.
If we couldn't obey God, we wouldn't feel bad for not obeying God. Regret presupposes free will. The reason we feel bad if we sin is because we know that we didn't have to sin, we could have obeyed God instead.
At conversion, we submit to God entirely in our heart. But then God continually sheds light upon us throughout the rest of our lives. As our knowledge increases, so also must our obedience increase. Our will should never be in a place of rebellion or disobedience. We should always obey the knowledge that we have.
If we are ever in a state of rebellion in our hearts (if we sin) we are backsliden and need to repent or perish.
What proof do you have that he sins every day? Do you really think that Jed is a hell bound sinner?
Or do you believe that EVERYONE sins every day? Because I don't. By God's grace, through the influence of the Holy Spirit, I obey God every day.
If a person really rebels against God every day, they are hell-bound. The difference between sinners and Christians is that sinners disobey God every day, Christians obey God every day.
A Christian is someone who follows or obeys Christ. If a person sins, they are not following or obeying Christ. Therefore we remain Christians so long as we obey or follow Christ. If we sin, we are temporarily not really Christians, that is, we are not really obedient followers of Jesus.
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Post by judgment on Feb 13, 2009 15:46:06 GMT -5
This is absurd. What proof de we have that Smock sins every day? The Bible says plainly that there is not ONE righteous but Jesus Christ. Therefore every day he preaches this ludicrous doctrine of sinless perfection he leis not only to Jesus, but to himself and to others around him. I do not blame you, Jesse, as much as I blame Smock. You are clearly not smart enough to think for yourself and someone like him will always be there to tell you what to think. Smock would make a great cult leader. He is on that road already. Smock is not here to speak for himself, so why pick on him alone? Let me ask YOU something , Jesse. Do you really think on a day to day basis you do NOT sin in the slightest way? A plain yes or no is all I ask. Spare me the sermons. I gave heard then from you all to the point of tedium. Just answer yes or no. Yes or no, Jesse? ?? Yes or no! That is all I want to find know.
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oaora
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Post by oaora on Feb 14, 2009 0:34:49 GMT -5
"I don't" is very different from "I can't". Even if nobody was morally perfect, that does not negate the fact that we could be. Even if nobody ever obeyed God, if everyone always disobeyed God, that does not negate the fact that we could obey God, that we don't have to disobey God. If we couldn't obey God, we wouldn't feel bad for not obeying God. Regret presupposes free will. The reason we feel bad if we sin is because we know that we didn't have to sin, we could have obeyed God instead. At conversion, we submit to God entirely in our heart. But then God continually sheds light upon us throughout the rest of our lives. As our knowledge increases, so also must our obedience increase. Our will should never be in a place of rebellion or disobedience. We should always obey the knowledge that we have. If we are ever in a state of rebellion in our hearts (if we sin) we are backsliden and need to repent or perish. What proof do you have that he sins every day? Do you really think that Jed is a hell bound sinner? Or do you believe that EVERYONE sins every day? Because I don't. By God's grace, through the influence of the Holy Spirit, I obey God every day. If a person really rebels against God every day, they are hell-bound. The difference between sinners and Christians is that sinners disobey God every day, Christians obey God every day. A Christian is someone who follows or obeys Christ. If a person sins, they are not following or obeying Christ. Therefore we remain Christians so long as we obey or follow Christ. If we sin, we are temporarily not really Christians, that is, we are not really obedient followers of Jesus. This is the cycle that we find ourselves in. I love the way you preach, "repent and believe". But I disagree with most everything else you are saying. Simply, sin is ANY transgression of the law.
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Post by fs on Feb 16, 2009 8:46:05 GMT -5
I am bowing out of this.
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Post by John McGlone on Feb 17, 2009 20:28:30 GMT -5
Well here's the thing. The sinless perfection doctrine that Jed preaches bothers me greatly. I don't believe that anyone can be sinlessly perfect. If you look at Jesus two great commands. I think that the rightful conclusion is that we are in a constant state of falling short. Please don't take this as I don't believe in Holy living....I do. I do not believe that Jed has come anywhere near the righteousness of Jesus Christ. As evidenced by his remarks and self reliance. “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.” “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Inconsistent. You believe in Holy living, yet you can't or won't. The question you must ask yourself is; which one is the truth.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Feb 17, 2009 22:09:10 GMT -5
Clemens of Alexandrinus said that the call of “the Divine word… requireth but that which is according to the ability and strength of every one.”
Gordon Olson said, “The words ‘all thy’ express our obligation. It is the exertion of ‘thy’ personality and ability that is required – ‘all’ this ability.”
Charles Finney said, “Entire obedience is the entire consecration of the powers, as they are, to God. It does not imply any change in them, but simply the right use of them.”
Again Finney said that the law “simply requires us to use what strength we have. They very wording of the law is proof conclusive, that it extents its demands only to the full amount of what strength we have. And this is true of every moral being, however great or small.”
Asa Mahan said, “the law, addressing men…requires them to love God with all their ‘mind and strength,’ that is…with the power they now actually possess.”
The fact that our moral obligation does not exceed our moral ability is proof of the fact that moral perfection is a possibility or is attainable in this life:
Charles Finney said, "entire obedience to God's law is possible on the ground of natural ability. To deny this is to deny that man is able to do as well as he can. The very language of the law is such as to level its claims to the capacity of the subject, however great or small that capacity may be. "Thou shalt love he Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, and with all thy strength" (Deut 6:5). Here then it is plain, that all the law demands, is the exercise of whatever strength we have, in the service of God. Now, as entire sanctification is nothing more than the right use of whatever strength we have, it is, of course, forever settled, that a state of entire sanctification is attainable in this life, on the ground of natural ability."
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Post by burningnow on Feb 19, 2009 15:44:43 GMT -5
Yay! Quote a total nut and you too can join him in being one.
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Post by curritodelacruz on Nov 6, 2010 9:16:14 GMT -5
Darkness must flow down the river of night's dreaming.
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Post by veritas77 on Jan 27, 2011 2:04:37 GMT -5
Interesting quote. It is true, possible indeed.
I Know that even in a dream conscience level in certain moments we can interact call it, with our dreams-knowingly.
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I believe we can walk sinless WITH God, but....that requires a breathe by breathe walk and sadly none of us are doing so. maybe...if we too were pinned on a cross next to Christ...we would ONLY be thinking/dwelling/speaking for Him alone. Till we died.
J.Morrell and myself etc are not without sin/or future. that is....as mentioned: if for even a second- our heart flutters when a person cuts us off in traffic etc...then are hearts are not 100% pure within. a fleeting moment of anger is more then pure holiness sadly.
Something to ponder. -V77
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Post by caymen on Mar 13, 2011 21:20:46 GMT -5
Jed's Language goes far beyond simply queer and Homo, his graphic descriptions of sex acts is what troubles those filled with the Holy Ghost. Reading through your opening statement of Jed quotes, one part really stuck out "God didn't know", so Jed doesn't believe God is omniscient?
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