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Post by John McGlone on May 27, 2009 6:39:32 GMT -5
1 Pet 1:6-8 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
Rev 3:17-19
17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
We can't find a baptism of fire in any of those passage that you've quoted. You've went all the way to the book of Revelation to try to prove that the Baptism of fire is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You don't even have to leave Matthew 3 to find out what is meant by fire. Read Matthew 3:10 and 12.Though I may be wasting my time, I will supply a little contextual understanding of Matthew 3:11. Context: Jesus is talking to the multitude which was composed of Pharisees, Sadduccees, Repentant, and non repentant men.As John was talking to the multitude he said "... every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit will be cast into the fire..." then, "I ... baptize with water... but he who cometh after me is mightier than I... he shall baptize you with the holy Spirit and with fire... He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire..." In verse 10 and 12 John tells us that fire will be the judgment of those who have not obeyed the Gospel. In verse 11 John said to the multitude (including the Pharisees and Sadduccees) that Jesus will baptize them (inclusive, general) with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Just as not all of them would be baptized with the Holy Spirit neither should all of them be baptized with fire. Though some of them would be baptized with the unquenchable fire, not all would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. It's unreasonable to believe that "Fire" has any sort of positive connotation in this passage. It's obvious that this text is dealing with condemnation for those who bear not good fruit. Acts 2:2 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Amazing, how you can pretzel scripture to fit your false teaching. Jonathan, you don't need to waste your time. God bless you. John P.S. You are just like this man! www.youtube.com/user/BibleSaysTV
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on May 27, 2009 8:40:55 GMT -5
We can't find a baptism of fire in any of those passage that you've quoted. You've went all the way to the book of Revelation to try to prove that the Baptism of fire is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You don't even have to leave Matthew 3 to find out what is meant by fire. Read Matthew 3:10 and 12.Though I may be wasting my time, I will supply a little contextual understanding of Matthew 3:11. Context: Jesus is talking to the multitude which was composed of Pharisees, Sadduccees, Repentant, and non repentant men.As John was talking to the multitude he said "... every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit will be cast into the fire..." then, "I ... baptize with water... but he who cometh after me is mightier than I... he shall baptize you with the holy Spirit and with fire... He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire..." In verse 10 and 12 John tells us that fire will be the judgment of those who have not obeyed the Gospel. In verse 11 John said to the multitude (including the Pharisees and Sadduccees) that Jesus will baptize them (inclusive, general) with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Just as not all of them would be baptized with the Holy Spirit neither should all of them be baptized with fire. Though some of them would be baptized with the unquenchable fire, not all would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. It's unreasonable to believe that "Fire" has any sort of positive connotation in this passage. It's obvious that this text is dealing with condemnation for those who bear not good fruit. Acts 2:2 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues as of fire, and it sat upon each of them." Amazing, how you can pretzel scripture to fit your false teaching. Jonathan, you don't need to waste your time. God bless you. John P.S. You are just like this man! www.youtube.com/user/BibleSaysTVIf exegesis is considered "preztling" scripture, then I'm guilty. You on the other hand have eisegeted this passage.
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Post by John McGlone on May 27, 2009 15:10:53 GMT -5
why are you still 'wasting your time'?
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on May 27, 2009 18:12:37 GMT -5
why are you still 'wasting your time'? I care about your soul.
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Post by John McGlone on May 28, 2009 6:09:08 GMT -5
I deduct by your statement, 'Because I care for your soul.' That you presume myself and many others to be unsaved here.
As I explained to you a few times already and I will explain again.
Almost 13 years ago, I was born again of the Holy Spirit. I confessed and forsook my sin and trusted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I was water baptized about a month later in obedience to the Holy Spirit, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Yet, you have erroneously presume that because I am outside of your 'church of Christ', I am not saved. I am in the body of Christ, I am a believer and I obey Christ and the gospel.
It is ironic that I hold to many things that you believe; obedience to Christ, original sin and sinful nature is false, etc. Yet, you don't have enough foresight to understand that you will not persuade me with your presumptions, nor your assumptions, nor your suppositions, nor your bad attitude. So be consistent Jonathan; don't post about wasting your time with us, and then come back with some false humility that you care for our souls. That is called hypocrisy, which would of course make you a hypocrite.
God bless you.
John
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on May 28, 2009 7:55:07 GMT -5
I deduct by your statement, 'Because I care for your soul.' That you presume myself and many others to be unsaved here. As I explained to you a few times already and I will explain again. Almost 13 years ago, I was born again of the Holy Spirit. I confessed and forsook my sin and trusted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I was water baptized about a month later in obedience to the Holy Spirit, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet, you have erroneously presume that because I am outside of your 'church of Christ', I am not saved. I am in the body of Christ, I am a believer and I obey Christ and the gospel. It is ironic that I hold to many things that you believe; obedience to Christ, original sin and sinful nature is false, etc. Yet, you don't have enough foresight to understand that you will not persuade me with your presumptions, nor your assumptions, nor your suppositions, nor your bad attitude. So be consistent Jonathan; don't post about wasting your time with us, and then come back with some false humility that you care for our souls. That is called hypocrisy, which would of course make you a hypocrite. God bless you. John It was 14 years ago, earlier. "I received Him with godly sorrow that led me to repentance almost 14 years ago." See, you don't even know when you got saved. According to your view there's no way to know either. Sir, you were not saved through the preaching of the Gospel. You believed a false Gospel which is not another. Jesus said in John 8:32 "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Friend, error cannot set you free. If you did not believe the truth about salvation how can you be set free? Your error has caused you to disbelieve the Gospel. As the same one you claim to be your savior said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Since you don't believe that verse (and many others as we have seen) you can't be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins. If you truly believed the Gospel then you would arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins. The problem is, you already believe your sins have been washed away. "If you were blind you would have no sin; now you say "We see" therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:41 As you stated before "All the Christians, that I know of, here have been immersed in water as an outward expression of an inward change in their hearts and minds."That the denominational world's baptism. Denominations made that up and you believed them over God. That baptism is not in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ because that baptism was not commanded by Jesus Christ. You must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins. You have already admitted that you are not in the body of Christ. The body of Christ is the church of Christ. You do not obey God. "These people draw near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips. But their heart is far from me and in vain they do worship me. Teaching for doctrines the commandments of Men" Matthew 15:9 You teach error on the unity of the church, salvation, worship, and have a lack of respect for the revealed will of God. You refuse to open your Bible and study to see if the things that I've written are true. When I prove you wrong you metaphorically cross your arms and pout like a child. Then, as one with ADD you completely change Bible passages. It's for these reasons I wrote: "I may be wasting my time..."
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Post by Kureji on May 28, 2009 10:02:29 GMT -5
mr whitehead, i love you. This is glorious trolling, I love it. Keep it up.
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Post by John McGlone on May 28, 2009 23:31:29 GMT -5
I deduct by your statement, 'Because I care for your soul.' That you presume myself and many others to be unsaved here. As I explained to you a few times already and I will explain again. Almost 13 years ago, I was born again of the Holy Spirit. I confessed and forsook my sin and trusted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I was water baptized about a month later in obedience to the Holy Spirit, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yet, you have erroneously presume that because I am outside of your 'church of Christ', I am not saved. I am in the body of Christ, I am a believer and I obey Christ and the gospel. It is ironic that I hold to many things that you believe; obedience to Christ, original sin and sinful nature is false, etc. Yet, you don't have enough foresight to understand that you will not persuade me with your presumptions, nor your assumptions, nor your suppositions, nor your bad attitude. So be consistent Jonathan; don't post about wasting your time with us, and then come back with some false humility that you care for our souls. That is called hypocrisy, which would of course make you a hypocrite. God bless you. John It was 14 years ago, earlier. "I received Him with godly sorrow that led me to repentance almost 14 years ago." See, you don't even know when you got saved. According to your view there's no way to know either. Sir, you were not saved through the preaching of the Gospel. You believed a false Gospel which is not another. Jesus said in John 8:32 "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Friend, error cannot set you free. If you did not believe the truth about salvation how can you be set free? Your error has caused you to disbelieve the Gospel. As the same one you claim to be your savior said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Since you don't believe that verse (and many others as we have seen) you can't be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins. If you truly believed the Gospel then you would arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins. The problem is, you already believe your sins have been washed away. "If you were blind you would have no sin; now you say "We see" therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:41 As you stated before "All the Christians, that I know of, here have been immersed in water as an outward expression of an inward change in their hearts and minds."That the denominational world's baptism. Denominations made that up and you believed them over God. That baptism is not in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ because that baptism was not commanded by Jesus Christ. You must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins. You have already admitted that you are not in the body of Christ. The body of Christ is the church of Christ. You do not obey God. "These people draw near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips. But their heart is far from me and in vain they do worship me. Teaching for doctrines the commandments of Men" Matthew 15:9 You teach error on the unity of the church, salvation, worship, and have a lack of respect for the revealed will of God. You refuse to open your Bible and study to see if the things that I've written are true. When I prove you wrong you metaphorically cross your arms and pout like a child. Then, as one with ADD you completely change Bible passages. It's for these reasons I wrote: "I may be wasting my time..." Aug 1, 1996 was the date that I responded to the Holy Spirit. So I made a mistake with my math. Hmmmm, I appreciate your correction about that, thank you. The blood of Christ has washed me clean, the Holy Spirit has confirmed that in me despite the machinations of your mind. Again more presumptions. I am part of the body of Christ. You are not a part of the body of Christ, you are the church of Christ. Thus it is easy to deduct you must not be saved and you are in error. You need to leave your traditions and get with the body of Jesus Christ! Get this Jonathan, the body of Christ is....the body of Christ.
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Post by jonathandwhitehead on May 29, 2009 7:24:06 GMT -5
The blood of Christ has washed me clean, the Holy Spirit has confirmed that in me despite the machinations of your mind. Again more presumptions. I am part of the body of Christ. You are not a part of the body of Christ, you are the church of Christ. Thus it is easy to deduct you must not be saved and you are in error. You need to leave your traditions and get with the body of Jesus Christ! Get this Jonathan, the body of Christ is....the body of Christ. "And he is the head of the Body, the church." Colossians 1:18
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Post by John McGlone on May 29, 2009 9:10:47 GMT -5
The blood of Christ has washed me clean, the Holy Spirit has confirmed that in me despite the machinations of your mind. Again more presumptions. I am part of the body of Christ. You are not a part of the body of Christ, you are the church of Christ. Thus it is easy to deduct you must not be saved and you are in error. You need to leave your traditions and get with the body of Jesus Christ! Get this Jonathan, the body of Christ is....the body of Christ. "And he is the head of the Body, the church." Colossians 1:18Good, now we are getting somewhere. Note the 'Body' of Christ is capitalized and not the 'church'. I am part of the Body of Christ fellowship here in Kentucky. You need to get baptized into the real Body of Christ and leave your false 'church of Christ'. Your water baptism is false, you need the Holy Spirit baptism that will regenerate you unto the only true fellowship of believers that are going to heaven. Then you will be fully immersed into the pure water we have here in KY and then you will be effectually saved. Please don't get into a car or plane accident on the way here as your eternity depends on you getting wet when you get here. Therefore your idolatrous views of water baptism in your made up 'church of Christ is leading you to damnation. Repent you heretic, I care for your soul....... Your arguments are just ridiculous Jonathan. :-I} Amish emoticon
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