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Post by benjoseph on Dec 9, 2009 21:45:44 GMT -5
I'd say temptation IS, by definition, experiencing a desire "for the thing which is tempting." If you experience no desire to turn the stones into bread then you aren't actually tempted to turn the stones into bread. If all you experience is hunger then that is no temptation at all because there is no "risk", so to speak, of doing anything unlawful. But, wait, which kind of desire did you mean? Voluntary or involuntary desire? haha, if you meant voluntary desire then I agree with you. In that case I would have just shown by example how easy it is to confuse the two senses of the word desire when discussing temptations and sin.
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Post by logic on Dec 10, 2009 11:24:08 GMT -5
I'd say temptation IS, by definition, experiencing a desire "for the thing which is tempting." If you experience no desire to turn the stones into bread then you aren't actually tempted to turn the stones into bread. If all you experience is hunger then that is no temptation at all because there is no "risk", so to speak, of doing anything unlawful. Temptation is to turn your desire towards sin. The ONLY desire for Jesus was to satisfy His hunger. Satan tempted Jesus to turn His desire (to satisfy His hunger) toward that which was wrong. Temptation is the proposition presented to the mind that you can satisfy a good appetite in a forbidden way (Paris Reidhead). There would be no temptation if you couldn't. The temptation is the ability, not the "sense of the word desire" Jesus was able to satisfy His hunger in a forbidden way. The temptation was, since He is God, to satisfy His hunger as He was able to turn a stone into bread (Because Satan propositioned Him). He did not desire to sin, but His flesh desires food. therefore He did not desire to turn the stone into bread, but He desired food in the proper time & place. What may complicate the matter in addition to His hunger is that the stones actually look like loaves of bread, which makes the flesh more compelling. ( Just an analogy for adultery; it has not happened & not an actual thing going on) I am able to satisfy my sexual desire in a forbidden way. The temptation is to satisfy my my sexual desire as I am able to with a co-worker (Because she propositioned me). I do not desire to sin, but my flesh desires sex. Therefore, I do not desire to with a co-worker, but with my wife in the proper time & place. What may complicate the matter is that she is HOT, which makes the flesh more compelling. But, wait, which kind of desire did you mean? Voluntary or involuntary desire? haha, if you meant voluntary desire then I agree with you. In that case I would have just shown by example how easy it is to confuse the two senses of the word desire when discussing temptations and sin. I think the difference in desire here is of the flesh &/or the mind. The flesh desires anything because it takes pleasure in what ever & however, good or bad, morally or immorally. This may be what you call "involuntary desire"
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Dec 10, 2009 12:57:12 GMT -5
Pelagius had a good teaching on this. He said that there were three types of thoughts:
1. Evil thoughts that come into your mind which you immediately reject and they immediately flee. 2. Evil thoughts that come into your mind which you immediately and continually fight against. They don't immediately leave but you don't give into them either. 3. Evil thoughts that come into your mind which you yield to and give into.
Only to the third can there be considered "sin". The first two are temptation.
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Post by Brother. Ross on Dec 10, 2009 17:09:26 GMT -5
benjoseph,
I pretty much agree with your last post,
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