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Post by Kerrigan on Jun 23, 2006 11:14:02 GMT -5
Everything you xians have said to us heathens is condescending and in that tone. One bad thing about Message Boards or even IM is that you can't see the persons tone or attitude most times...I sincerely love all non-Christian on this board and can't remember ever having a bad tone or attitude towards them. I have gotten a little out of line with my brothers when discussing doctrine a couple of times, but not with the unbelievers...
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Post by cervyy on Jun 26, 2006 0:16:36 GMT -5
sometimes after I read some of the "Christians'" posts I strangle or slap my "invisble friend." It's theraputic AND it stops me from wanting to track down the poster to do that to them ...
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Post by messengermicah on Jun 27, 2006 14:39:16 GMT -5
I was preaching with Ruben this weekend at homosexual parades in Columbus, Ohio and Chicago, Illinois. I think Ruben is probably the master of one liners. Here are a few ones I heard this weekend.
A homosexual is asking us to turn the banners around. "We want to see the backside!" (of the banner).
Ruben: "Why are you guys always so concerned with the backside?"
A masculine looking, butchy lesbian is cursing Ruben out as he is preaching.
Ruben: "Take it like a man!"
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Post by evanschaible on Jul 12, 2006 12:06:50 GMT -5
You better not go to the gay bar, you have to stand at the judgement bar
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Post by biblethumper on Jul 12, 2006 12:38:20 GMT -5
You better not go to the gay bar, you have to stand at the judgement bar Now THAT is usable! LOVE IT!
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Post by biblethumper on Jul 12, 2006 12:39:37 GMT -5
I was preaching with Ruben this weekend at homosexual parades in Columbus, Ohio and Chicago, Illinois. I think Ruben is probably the master of one liners. Here are a few ones I heard this weekend. A homosexual is asking us to turn the banners around. "We want to see the backside!" (of the banner). Ruben: "Why are you guys always so concerned with the backside?" A masculine looking, butchy lesbian is cursing Ruben out as he is preaching. Ruben: "Take it like a man!" Micah, you asked not long back what post I was referring to that was sinful in it's appraisal... It's this one. Not seeking to debate here... simply answering your earlier Q God bless. Dan
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jul 12, 2006 14:21:33 GMT -5
Here is one I use when someone "gives me the finger."
"You should take that finger and flip open a Bible."
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 12, 2006 20:32:31 GMT -5
Why is it sinful and unbiblical? Not seeking to debate here either, but I do not see anything sinful or unbiblical about the comments above.
Ruben did not call anyone unbiblical names here.
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Post by biblethumper on Jul 13, 2006 13:03:16 GMT -5
Ruben: "Why are you guys always so concerned with the backside?"
A masculine looking, butchy lesbian is cursing Ruben out as he is preaching.
Ruben: "Take it like a man!"
______________________________________
Brother, I think the above statements speak volumes mor ethan I ever could
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Post by Kerrigan on Jul 13, 2006 16:12:59 GMT -5
"'Christians' don't like to talk about hypocrisy any more than turkeys like to talk about Thanksgiving."
-Keith Green
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 13, 2006 17:41:47 GMT -5
I see nothing sinful or unbiblical there, especially given the environment.
If you accuse someone of sinful behavior, and they are not sure why it is sinful, I believe you should be able to give a biblical answer.
Is it sinful because it is sarcastic? Is it sinful because it is mocking sin? I honestly do not know what you are talking about. Neither of those qualify something as being unbiblical. The motive could be wrong, but the words are not necessarily wrong of themselves.
If I tell someone gangster rap is sinful I need an explanation why. If I tell someone movies are sinful I need an explanation why.
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Post by bullhornbob on Jul 13, 2006 23:21:06 GMT -5
I see nothing sinful or unbiblical there, especially given the environment. If you accuse someone of sinful behavior, and they are not sure why it is sinful, I believe you should be able to give a biblical answer. Is it sinful because it is sarcastic? Is it sinful because it is mocking sin? I honestly do not know what you are talking about. Neither of those qualify something as being unbiblical. The motive could be wrong, but the words are not necessarily wrong of themselves. If I tell someone gangster rap is sinful I need an explanation why. If I tell someone movies are sinful I need an explanation why. I think a lot of Christians simply disagree and then state their opinion. There is no use saying something is sinful without scriptural evidence to back it up.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jul 13, 2006 23:21:18 GMT -5
Here is one I use when someone "gives me the finger." "You should take that finger and flip open a Bible." When people give you the finger you can also say: "That's right. There is only one way to God"
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Post by bullhornbob on Jul 13, 2006 23:25:55 GMT -5
When people respond with, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!" I sometimes respond with, "He will! He will cast many stoney hearts into Hell on the day of judgment." Heckler - "he who is without sin, cast the first stone" Preacher - "Go and sin no more" I find that this response stops the mouth of the heckler, every single time.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jul 13, 2006 23:41:30 GMT -5
WITHOUT SIN
Heckler - "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
He who is without sin will cast Ten Stones. God has His Ten Commandments and on Judgment Day He will cast them. "Thou shalt not bear false witness" will shatter all liars. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" will destroy all adulterers. "Thou shalt not steal" will kill all thiefs. etc etc
MIDDLE FINGER
I've heard a preacher say to someone who gave them the middle finger, "is that your IQ or are you telling me that I'm number one?"
SMOKING AND BEER
Dr. Kent Hovind who does creation science has had some good lines for beer and cigarettes. "There really is no such thing as a smoker. No, the cigarette does the smoking, you are just the sucker."
And he calls bud-weiser - bud-dumber and miller high-life - miller low-life. The world puts a positive swing on a negative thing, and we ought to put some truth back in it.
STDS AND FORNICATION
Did you know that 4 out of 10 fornicators has STDs? Sometimes I start counting people in the crowd, 1,2,3,4. But 10 out of 10 fornicators go to hell! (should be said in a serious manner)
How many of you are involved in ppprrreee-martial-sex? Cheers come from the crowd. Did you know that STDS are more commonly reported then the common cold! You shouldn't be so proud of being sexually active. You might have the glorious gonorrhea, the splendid syphilis, or the awesome aids! No, they aren't glorious or splendid or awesome! They are harmful. They are shameful! Come on, raise your hands if you have herpes. Any takers? No, because it's not good!
God's way is good and works. Man's way is harmful and destructive. If you wait until you are married, and your wife waits until she is married, and you stay faithful one to another, you have zero threat of getting a sexually transmitted disease. God's way works and is best.
------------------------------------------------------------------
REBUKE OR INSULT?
I've been thinking about something for awhile and wanted to know what you guys think. When does a public rebuke become an unnecessary insult? What would the qualifications be for an unnecessary insult? What would be the characteristics of an unnecessary insult that we ought to look out for?
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Post by biblethumper on Jul 14, 2006 14:08:10 GMT -5
Example of an insult would be saying to a homosexual lesbian: Take it like a man! Such an example shows the lesbian would be driven FROM Christ rather TO Christ. Micah, debate it all you desire; I exhort you to watch Mark Cahill testify of HIS encounters with Gay Pride Festivals and how homosexuals weep and confess their sins as Mark tells them of the Love of Jesus. "Take it like a man" is the most blasphemous thing to say to anyone... Why? Because that statement is one of mockery and insult and shows hatred for the dignity of mankind created in God's image and cause sthat individual to think all Christians are like that. Micah, I'll tell you right now that I would NEVER want to be associated with ANYONE who speaks that trash to sinners. I want people to come to Christ through the preaching of the Gospel; I don;t want to spend my time explaining why some "Christians" are in fact hypocrites. Love the sinner to Jesus. Don't hate him into hell. If you'd like to know how to conduct yourself and get results when witnessing: vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoID=934067805
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 14, 2006 15:05:52 GMT -5
No one is debating you. I am just asking for a biblical reason of why it is sinful and unbiblical.
We are not talking about witnessing. Witnessing is much different than preaching. We are talking about preaching. Let's compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.
I don't understand your comment about explaining why some Christians are hypocrites. What do you mean and where did that come from? I am not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand.
About results. If you remember the report, there was a man who was saved as a result of Ruben's preaching at Mardi Gras from a homosexual lifestyle and now is preaching full time all over the country.
Please don't think I do not want to watch the link you are giving, but I cannot because my computer is dial up.
I am always ready to learn, but your last comment above sounds arrogant and presumptous on your part. Maybe that is not how you meant it but that is how it sounds.
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Post by Kerrigan on Jul 14, 2006 17:03:33 GMT -5
This is a good set of questions...I will be pondering this...
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jul 14, 2006 19:17:11 GMT -5
I've been finding lately scripture and/or spiritual/biblical illustrations can be insulting on their own - but that's not the fault of the preacher, or the content.
However, I think there are some things that are beneficial to being 'provocative.' For instance, our last visit to Lake Holbrook, here in Mineola, I, using scripture, told a young man that he was not saved - after he told me he was born again, while illegally drinking beer and using profanity and justifying sin. In no way did I intend to be insulting - but he was certainly offended at the idea that his 'old-time religion' was dead and stinketh. This sincere remark kept his attention and the attention of others - at the same time was scriptural.
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Post by biblethumper on Jul 14, 2006 19:27:58 GMT -5
Micah, I love Ruben's preaching, fo rthe most part.
I was referring to the fact of the ISOLATED incident where you glorify the words of Ruben, which are wicked and blasphemous.
Lemme say it like this:
Your insults may be funny in your city, but I prefer to keep guys who preach that trash out of my city, as you could destroy in one sentence what many of us here have worked to build for months.
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Post by newsong on Jul 14, 2006 19:42:06 GMT -5
The comment in question in the UK would be considered a coarse thing to say not wise at all. It did make me cringe also.
Dan said:-
"Take it like a man" is the most blasphemous thing to say to anyone...
Why?
Because that statement is one of mockery and insult and shows hatred for the dignity of mankind created in God's image and cause sthat individual to think all Christians are like that.
That is the truth in this instance. I agree.
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 14, 2006 20:28:17 GMT -5
You are entitled to your opinion. I have no problem with that. However, I have repeatedly asked why it was sinful and unbiblical and all I seem to get are your opinions.
Biblethumper, I am confused. In two seperate posts here you said you would not want to be associated with anyone who would say such a thing (Ruben).
Now you are saying you love Ruben's preaching for the most part.
Yes, those things are a small part of Ruben's preaching. I don't think you can make a blanket statement and say those things are always wrong.
I have heard people try to preach things others preached and it came across as hateful and mean spirited.
Ruben looks big and mean, and then when you read his words it sounds like it is that way. However, if you hear Ruben preach it is not mean spirited at all. Usually most of the homosexuals laugh a lot when he says some of these things.
I am a friend of Ruben, and he has been a real friend and like a pastor to me, but I do not try to be like Ruben, or anyone else because I have to be myself. I have learned a lot of things from Ruben and others though.
I do not say some of the things Ruben says myself, but I do not think Ruben's heart is wrong, nor do I think he is doing things the bible forbids.
I have to really wonder if many people who criticize Ruben, even have any right to criticize him, because they would not dare preach in most of the places he consistently preaches in.
I get a little tired of people who never preach at South Beach tell me how to preach there. I did not preach the way I preach there now when I started. Now after I have learned MUCH from spending over two and a half years there for hours every week, I have a good idea of the mindset there and through much prayer and bible study preach accordingly.
By the way, Ruben does not preach at every event the way he preaches at homosexual parades. That seems to be the only thing Ruben ever gets noticed for. I have been with him preaching in several different environments and he always preaches according to the event.
I believe with all my heart if most people had preached at homosexual parades as many years as Ruben has, they would preach more like he does at those events. Remember preaching is MUCH different from witnessing or talking one on one to somebody.
I am curious, when have you heard Ruben preach?
Believe me I really am not trying to debate, but I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I have tried to discuss this with others before who said it was wrong, but they would not discuss it directly with me, but chose rather to talk about me publicly.
Honestly I am a little ashamed to be grouped in with Ruben as he has really paid some dues over the years, and I have not.
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Post by newsong on Jul 15, 2006 4:18:10 GMT -5
Please check you pm for clarification re your question.
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 15, 2006 9:38:20 GMT -5
Thank you newsong. I understand your point and it makes absolute sense what you are saying.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jul 17, 2006 17:01:59 GMT -5
I think we need provocative preaching. And there is nothing wrong with offensive preaching. And I've been known for "shock and awe" preaching. Truth can be provocative, offensive, and shocking.
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Post by rebecca01 on Jul 17, 2006 20:34:50 GMT -5
I just want to be known for being like Jesus...
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 17, 2006 21:40:37 GMT -5
Jesus was often provocative, offensive, and shocking. In fact He is a rock of offence (1 Peter 2:8).
Truth is often provocative, offensive, and shocking, and Jesus is the truth (John 14:6).
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Post by rebecca01 on Jul 17, 2006 21:46:03 GMT -5
LOL! I wasn't refering to you Micah...I was just making a staement that's all...I guess you had to have been there...nevermind...refer to First Open Air...
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Post by messengermicah on Jul 17, 2006 21:55:10 GMT -5
I did not think you were referring to me, it is just that so many have a false idea of how Jesus dealt with many people. He was not always provocative, offensive, and shocking, but often He was.
I have made some mistakes on this board, but I am generally not overly sensitive to take everything personal.
We can't just pick and choose the things about Jesus we want to be like and ignore the others.
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Post by rebecca01 on Jul 18, 2006 4:52:19 GMT -5
AMEN!!! and AMEN!!!
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