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Post by Messenger Micah on Oct 10, 2005 19:43:57 GMT -5
I feel kind of silly posting this under "persecution" and I don't think it will earn me a spot in Foxes Book of Martyrs, but I felt it was the best place to post this question. I have been following Jesse's court battle and maybe him or someone else could respond.
Today a local chapter of Gideons were handing out bibles at a local community college. My good friend is the head of that chapter and preaches outdoors with me. While they were handing out bibles, I sought out a security officer on campus and asked him where I could preach. He told me where, so I went there and preached about 10 minutes before I was shut down by campus security. I talked to the director of activities and he told me the reason people can not preach on community college campuses is because they have to have a free speech area. Free speech areas are supposed to be next to student unions which community colleges are not given the money to have. Since there is no free speech area there is no place to have free speech.
What do you guys know about this?
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Oct 11, 2005 11:38:22 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Oct 11, 2005 16:35:00 GMT -5
I think they gave you a better excuse not to have preaching then the craziness I keep hearing. "Your not allowed on campus because your not a student" just doesn't make sense to me since it's a public campus.
I say, contact the ACLJ or The Alliance Defense Fund.
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jed
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by jed on Oct 17, 2005 16:30:55 GMT -5
I have a question: suppose that you became a student at one of these places... just taking one class.... could they say anything to you then? I know it is probably not economically feasible for every single college you go to .... Just wondering. It would be a great 300$ investment if you could preach a whole semester unmolested to probably some of the most spiritually hungry souls... college students.
Also, suppose you were an alum of a college... would they allow you to preach open air? Or would they insist on removing you?
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Post by Rodgers on Oct 17, 2005 20:00:37 GMT -5
I went to a four year school and preached at a few events that the campus put on. One was a drag show and the other was a play on very sick things. They could not do a thing to me because I was attending the school. I had every right to be there as any other student. If you want to make the investment of enrolling in a class I doutb it would even cost you $300. The community college by my house is $52 a credit, and the offer plenty of 1 credit courses.
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Post by Messenger Micah on Oct 17, 2005 22:23:08 GMT -5
That's a good idea to enroll as a student, but I do not think that would help on this Community College because there is NO FREE SPEECH area. That was the argument they gave me so it would not matter if you were a student or not. I am an alumni graduate of that particular community college.
I do think it would help a great deal at non community colleges to be a student. The local state university here requires people who are not from any of the campus ministries to get signed permits. If I was a student or involved in a campus ministry, I may not have to go through so much red tape. I am also a graduate of this school.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 16, 2006 7:12:17 GMT -5
If its a public college then its byways are open to the public and you can preach there as long as you don't block the sidewalk, or inter fear with the operation of the school. This is a serious violation of your rights.
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Post by messengermicah on May 16, 2006 21:59:14 GMT -5
Yes I realize that, but what can I do about it?
I have sent complaints to Christian based law firms but before anything was done I got arrested.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 6:48:02 GMT -5
Yes I realize that, but what can I do about it? I have sent complaints to Christian based law firms but before anything was done I got arrested. You got arrested..I didn't see that in your post. Tell me what happened. First off plead not quilty. Secondly, what state are you in....and thirdly....sounds like you would have a very good case. Can't wait to hear what happened.
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Post by messengermicah on May 17, 2006 23:01:25 GMT -5
I think I may have misled you. I was not arrested for preaching on a junior college campus but on a public sidewalk in Miami Beach. I wrote a report about it and posted it on this site. I think it was called Arrested at Lincoln Road 3/04. I had been harrassed by police many times before I was arrested, and had informed Christian based law firms but before they could get anything done I was arrested.
I don't really know what to do in these cases. I could probably give them many cases to work on every month, but it will not help much if they are not able to get to them for several years. You either have to avoid preaching in these places for all that time or end up getting arrested.
What to do? Any one have any suggestions or can you relate?
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 9:57:47 GMT -5
I think I may have misled you. I was not arrested for preaching on a junior college campus but on a public sidewalk in Miami Beach. I wrote a report about it and posted it on this site. I think it was called Arrested at Lincoln Road 3/04. I had been harrassed by police many times before I was arrested, and had informed Christian based law firms but before they could get anything done I was arrested. I don't really know what to do in these cases. I could probably give them many cases to work on every month, but it will not help much if they are not able to get to them for several years. You either have to avoid preaching in these places for all that time or end up getting arrested. What to do? Any one have any suggestions or can you relate? I'm going to read your other post. I say just do Wat's legal....get a good attorney and take them one at a time. The way the world is going....I would expect things to get worse.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 13:46:47 GMT -5
I think I may have misled you. I was not arrested for preaching on a junior college campus but on a public sidewalk in Miami Beach. I wrote a report about it and posted it on this site. I think it was called Arrested at Lincoln Road 3/04. I had been harrassed by police many times before I was arrested, and had informed Christian based law firms but before they could get anything done I was arrested. I don't really know what to do in these cases. I could probably give them many cases to work on every month, but it will not help much if they are not able to get to them for several years. You either have to avoid preaching in these places for all that time or end up getting arrested. What to do? Any one have any suggestions or can you relate? I wasn't able to find the post where you got arrested. Possibly you could take me through the event? But I think that basically these things are going to happen. Largely because the government is becoming homo-fascist. We are in for the long haul. So if it takes several years...then it does. If they violate your civil rights...there are court orders that can be issued that should not take that long. I had to call the Alliance Defensive Fund one time. Because they accused me of being "insensitive" at work. I was called to an incident where a "gay" man said he was being harassed. Because they called him fag. Well I asked if they knew he was gay. Certain police administrators read my report and thought that I shouldn not have asked this question. Because they want us to be "sensitive". Thing is....that question must be asked. So they were going to discipline me...but they backed off. There you have homo-facism...its very political and its a big reason for police harassment. And you can understand why police probably would never take a preachers side in a dispute...unless he was a Bible believing Officer and understood. Or was just smarter than most..maybe. Its almost like they have a civility code, that would obviously be unconstitutional. I found if you "call" the ADF they are extremely quick in responding. Maybe you want to speak to someone and get a referral to a local attorney and put him on retainer...and go from there. Its really a battle for soles, firstly and secondly public access. Also working with a para-legal at ADF is possible...just call and get a name and then just make that person your person to ask. Hope that helped.
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Post by messengermicah on May 18, 2006 14:07:41 GMT -5
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 15:56:17 GMT -5
Ok, I read the whole thing. 1)This is common...unfortunitally. However you can't arrest someone for disorderly conduct just because their speech is offensive. Con traversal speech is protected by the constitution. 2)A person would have to use fighting words to warrant an arrest..that I'm sure you didn't use. Like a threat or something. 3) I'm sure you will get off.... 4) Plead not guilty and get a referral from the ADF. For a local attorney. 5) One issue is to place a court order against the police....in conjunction with a lawsuit. To stop their harassment. 6)A judge will have to decide if the officers receive immunity..and decide if you were "reasonably" disorderly. This will be a big issue. They will try and say a "reasonable" officer would conclude that you were disorderly. 7) You have to look into...neglance and their training. Do they receive any training that would make them biased against Christians. Have the Officers made anti-Christian comments. That sort of thing. Diversity sensitivity training....its all biased. Did they receive it. What was said in this training and by who. A lot of attorneys over look that...its just now on the radar screen. 8) I could give you a run down of things to look for regarding training and such if you like...it would go a long was to prove "motive". 9) As far as the video cammera...she didn't tamper with it?? But they seized it without a warrant. Unsure what you state laws are. 10) The issue here is..did you receive a receipt for the camera and did the police tamper with it. 11) Could they be charged. 12) Also it appears as though they had her stop taping so they could mistreat you...don't you think.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 21:00:01 GMT -5
I just wanted to throw this out here real yquick. If you like to read...you can start to understand what is going on in policing. When did it become the job of the police to transform society? Look for words like facilitated.....the second link is a group that teaches police officers "diversity and sensivity" in my area. I've been mandated to go to their training in the past. You can see how someone that went through this training would discriminate against Christians. www.crossroad.to/articles2/Community-Policing.htmwww.ncbi.org
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 14:18:09 GMT -5
They never got the video and we did not tamper with it.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 4, 2006 10:15:55 GMT -5
public property is owned by private individuals. i learned this when i was escorted out of the mall, and banned, for passing out flyers on 'buy nothing day' which is the day after thanksgiving. see this website for more info: adbusters.org/metas/eco/bnd/
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