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Post by oap001 on Oct 1, 2006 20:20:52 GMT -5
I wanted to start a new thread and ask the following questions.
1) Should we be involved in activism?
2) If yes what would be our goals. For both the street preachers and non. In other words how can non-street preachers assist.
3) Should we ask the government for permission to be in the public square?
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Post by mahatma on Oct 1, 2006 21:50:03 GMT -5
My vote won't surprise you Pachristianpatriot Insofar as government/legal-related activism is concerned I think you should take part in any activism you believe in that does not have the goal of restricting the rights of or taking rights away from your fellow citizens
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Post by cervyy on Oct 2, 2006 1:44:33 GMT -5
And remember Pach, just because someone is forced to live by your rules (if you work to make them law) that doesn't mean they'll believe them and follow them in their heart. Meaning, it won't stop them from sinning.
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Post by biblethumper on Oct 4, 2006 15:28:24 GMT -5
Brother, we here are socail activists, and continue to be.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Oct 4, 2006 17:02:18 GMT -5
Our focus must be preaching, not necessarily protesting.
I go to homosexual parades, but not to protest, but but to preach!
I go to abortion clinics, but not to protest, but to preach!
But of course, our preaching would be considered a form of protesting, because we are protesting sin.
My motto is: if it's a sin you must preach against it!
But Christians need to be careful not to become onesided, and get so involved in politics. Politicians are not the light and salt of the world, but we are.
We shouldn't simply try to stop abortion or stop homosexual marriage, but our goal must be to get everybody saved!
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Post by mahatma on Oct 4, 2006 17:05:27 GMT -5
I think, Jesse, that is the smartest thing I have ever heard you say on the boards. *salute* Just keep protesting -sin- rather than -people-
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Post by oap001 on Oct 4, 2006 17:42:40 GMT -5
Should we hold the government accountable? Should we ask them permission to preach in public?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Oct 4, 2006 17:58:34 GMT -5
As far as accountability goes, even Paul asked the soldiers, "is it lawful to be a roman citizen without a trial?"
We too can take officers to court for the court to examine a situation to see if what the officers did was lawful or not.
And as far as permission to preach goes, our permission has already been granted by God to preach to everyone, everywhere.
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Post by oap001 on Oct 4, 2006 19:17:18 GMT -5
Ok..great answer..Jesse. Just wondering why you secure permission to preach on certain public universities? I am of the conviction that you should just preach....
When I say accountability. I mean that obviously there is corruption here in these places. Shouldn't that be exposed?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Oct 4, 2006 19:55:09 GMT -5
Constitutionally, the supreme court even ruled that the permit process should not be enforced.
But, it is enforced on many campuses, and the only way to overcame that would be a lawsuit.
But a lawsuit process takes a few years.
So if a school says, just fill out this paper work and you can preach all you want, for the sake of the campus I fill out the paper.
Otherwise, I would have to wait a few years before I can preach to those people who desperately need Jesus.
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Post by dale on Oct 5, 2006 13:37:49 GMT -5
Jesse actually sounds halfway intelligent for once.
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Post by mahatma on Oct 5, 2006 13:40:12 GMT -5
There's nothing more American than good old-fashioned pragmatism (and I mean that as a compliment)
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Post by oap001 on Oct 5, 2006 16:54:06 GMT -5
Constitutionally, the supreme court even ruled that the permit process should not be enforced. But, it is enforced on many campuses, and the only way to overcame that would be a lawsuit. But a lawsuit process takes a few years. So if a school says, just fill out this paper work and you can preach all you want, for the sake of the campus I fill out the paper. Otherwise, I would have to wait a few years before I can preach to those people who desperately need Jesus. But there is more going on here than meets the eye. There is a civility code attached to the permit process at most schools. That many people are afraid to violate. In fact with this in place, most are afraid to preach at all. So why not have the policy knocked down for their sake? I don't understand why you couldn't go back to a school with a law suit pending? Think of the students that are not engaging in christian free speech activites on these campuses because of these codes....where they can't hurt people's feelings. Whats the dilio Jesse...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Oct 5, 2006 22:00:39 GMT -5
A "code of conduct" that I keep seeing on these permits is, "no fighting words".
But that does not exclude the personal, sharp preaching. It simply means you can't say things to intentionally make a person want to physically fight you. But you can say things that would make a person want to verbally debate you.
John Bunyan was in jail because he refused to become an ordained preacher. I'm told that they left his cell door open, had the ordination papers right outside his cell ready to be signed, but he refused to do it because he felt ordination comes only from God, and he was already ordained.
Repent America and Michael McCavage refuse to do the permit process. He was arrested on a campus for refusing to get a permit. He took it to court and won.
I support him and his mission. I think that if he can do away with all this permit garbage good!
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Post by oap001 on Oct 6, 2006 5:48:37 GMT -5
What they are trying to do and...just be aware. It to place time, space and manor restrictions on speech. They are also saying that the word of God is fighting words. So this is a huge leap from fighting words or controlling protesters. To silencing certain unfavored speech.
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Post by mahatma on Oct 6, 2006 12:34:06 GMT -5
This actually isn't only limited to christians. This is a disturbing phenomenon all over the country where protestors, speakers, etc. are being roped into "free speech zones" (eh? isn't America a free speech zone??) or having their speech limited. It's been bothering me a lot and while I think it's reasonable to take the time to go to a campus office and say "we're gonna be here today, don't freak out or anything" the idea that people should be roped off in order to exercize their rights makes me grind my teeth
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Post by oap001 on Oct 7, 2006 10:28:04 GMT -5
This actually isn't only limited to christians. This is a disturbing phenomenon all over the country where protestors, speakers, etc. are being roped into "free speech zones" (eh? isn't America a free speech zone??) or having their speech limited. It's been bothering me a lot and while I think it's reasonable to take the time to go to a campus office and say "we're gonna be here today, don't freak out or anything" the idea that people should be roped off in order to exercize their rights makes me grind my teeth I agree with you on this, it's not only Christians, but anyone who would be out of sync with the institutions moral relative idea of "education". It all has to be knocked down.
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Post by cervyy on Oct 7, 2006 11:11:52 GMT -5
Knocked down and then you can burst in and enforce only "Christain" laws.
Right Pach?
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Post by oap001 on Oct 7, 2006 12:10:51 GMT -5
Knocked down and then you can burst in and enforce only "Christain" laws. Right Pach? Laws have to be constitutional. What do you think should happen to officers who knowingly enforce, either disorderly conduct laws, or permitting policies that are used as a method to stifle free speech. Say for the sake of argument that this is done in negligence or even knowingly.
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Post by oap001 on Oct 7, 2006 12:15:07 GMT -5
I guess I'm saying that people like Talitha Snow are right. Because after an unlawful arrest all this can be uncovered in a subsequent lawsuit/investigation.
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Post by oap001 on Oct 7, 2006 13:23:49 GMT -5
This is very interesting.
Court Allows Case Against West Chester University to Go Forward Recently, a lawsuit was filed against West Chester University challenging the University's Distribution of Noncommercial Literature/Nonsponsored Presentations policy. THe University's Motion to Dismiss the Complaint was denied by the Court. As a result, the case will now be able to proceed on the merits.
This policy at issue in the case requires any individual who wants to engage in non-sponsored expressive activity on the WCU campus to register at least two hours before engaging in such activity. In this instance, Mr. Marcavage, the Plaintiff, went to the WCU campus to distribute pro-life materials. Mr. Marcavage was told by University Officials that he could stand on the sidewalks and move about campus as long as he did not speak with anyone about abortion or try to hand out literature. If he wanted to engage in expressive activities, though, he would have to register and wait two hours. He would also have to comply with certain restrictions regarding where he could be located. Mr. Marcavage refused to register or leave campus and was charged with criminal trespass. This policy and its application raise many important issues. For example, if a non-student came onto campus wearing a George Bush or John Kerry t-shirt, would they have to register? If PA Governor Rendell was in West Chester and spontaneously decided to walk around campus and shake hands, would he be required to register? If Governor Rendell made a scheduled appearance to speak on campus and someone wanted to protest, could they be denied the opportunity to do so because he left campus before the two hour waiting period expired? A copy of the complaint can be found at this link: Marcavage v. West Chester University, et al.
The criminal charges were dismiss on June 5, 2006 by Chester County Common Pleas Court Judge James P. MacElree II who ruled that Repent America (RA) director Michael Marcavage did not violate the law while he was ministering on a public sidewalk near the campus of West Chester University last year. Despite the prosecution's vigorous efforts to see the evangelist stand trial, Judge MacElree dismissed a trespassing charge, dissolved a lower court's restriction barring the public minister from the campus, and declared that the University's permitting policy does not pass constitutional muster.
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Post by voicefortruth on Mar 5, 2007 15:26:07 GMT -5
I went to the local community college today to open air preach. I first stopped by the security office to let them know what I planned to do, I was instructed that I needed to talk to the public relations director and also the humanities and divinity director in seperate buildings. I went to both offices over an hour period and neither was present in their offices, I called each one seperately and left a message. I am starting to believe that this is the royal run around. I will try again tommorrow. I wonder if you can tell me what is my legal rights? Am I within my rights to just begin public preaching? What say you friends?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 5, 2007 15:43:42 GMT -5
If you are on a public campus, you are well within your rights.
If you can secure a permit, do it. Talk to the Admin and see what they want you to do.
If they do not let you preach on campus, see if there is a good public road that you can preach from.
And if they will not let you preach on a public campus, contact attorney Nate Kellum with the Alliance Defense Fund who defense campus preacher for free: 903 323 6672
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Post by oap001 on Mar 6, 2007 23:35:48 GMT -5
If its a public college..preach away. If they make an arrest or a threat to arrest you then you would have a case. If you look at that Bible Gregg video...that is what he was trying to get that State Trooper to say. To make a threat of arrest against him. But notice the Trooper wouldn't say it. All he said was, "If you go up there....there "MAY" be a problem.
So play the game a little and just preach.
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