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Post by alan4jc on Jul 10, 2007 17:49:27 GMT -5
Mr. Kerrigan on your website, you claim the same thing :Mike: disclaimed, Peolpe call anything an "cult if they disagree theologically" with their traditions, of church or pastor says. Disclaimer: the creator of this site, Kerrigan Skelly, doesn't necessarily agree theologically with all of the open air preachers he has put on this site. He just wants to provide materials and allow the Holy Spirit to work in people's lives. God Bless! TrustandObey TOB, the difference is that you are part of a CULT that believes E G White was a true prophet, that Jesus is Michael the archangel, sunday worship is the mark of the beast etc...
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Post by trustandobey on Jul 10, 2007 21:58:22 GMT -5
Alan, Please Show the Sunday Commandment, and the reason You keep a day based on church tradition. Gentiles need to give up their Sunday worship and become Followers of Jesus Christ [actions serve, not lip serves], Pagans worship their Idols on Sunday, The Lord does not associate His day with theirs. Between the Holy and the profane.
In the wilderness, the tabernacle's door was facing East, so when they worshiped God, Their Backs faced the Sun.
In Ezek, ezek was shown the worst crime against God, Where He was aloud to see, the leaders of Israel, worship the Sun.
Sunday worship in God's eyes is "modern Baal Worship" The First Angels message is a return to the Law of God, the Judgment is in place, and to return to the Sabbath. Rev 14:7
Jesus Old Testament Name was Micheal. The Bible defines the truth, not me. I will let the Bible speak for itself.
E g. White was God's Prophet. [take it up with the Lord] Which followed the Gifts of the Spirit.
I do not follow traditions, and make them requirements, and then claim everybody that disagrees with me is in a cult.
The mark of the Beast, is about worship, please follow the Bible and the Bible alone, for it answers itself, and tells you what the Mark of the beast is.
Beast is a kingdom,"government Power" What is the Mark of this Government power. why do you follow the False prophet system" Apostate Protestantism.
Alan come out of the False Cult worship, of all the False Doctrines which you fell back into.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jul 10, 2007 23:08:22 GMT -5
Sean, we must study Scripture, line upon line, precept upon precept. hear alittle, there alittle. Isa 28:9
Fear God, Do a word search on what the Fear of the Lord is, or Fear God.
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORDis to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
How do we give glory to God, without faith it is not passable to please Him.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
What is Sin, Sin is the transgression of the Law. 1 John 3:4
Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Luke 17:18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 10 people where Healed, only One Gave Glory to God.
and worship Him: Who identifies Worship: Only God Does: where it is mentioned
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: 1st Commandment
2 Chronicles 7:19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
not keeping the commandments, is worshiping other gods.
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Pretty Clear!
Rev 14:7 who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and made it a worship day
The first Angels message, is speaking to turning us back to God, and His commandments, the Elijah Message, and the return back to Remember His creation day, Gen 2:1 and the Sabbath Commandment
TrustandObey
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Post by overcomeevil on Jul 11, 2007 9:45:27 GMT -5
Ellen G. White Fact Sheet
In Seventh-Day Adventist (SDA) circles, a vision that Ellen G. White (EGW) had in 1847 is important to their exaltation of the Sabbath command: (EGW is considered an inspired prophetess among the SDA.)
We felt an unusual spirit of prayer. And as we prayed the Holy Ghost fell upon us. We were very happy. Soon I was lost to earthly things and was wrapped in a vision of God's glory. I saw an angel flying swiftly to me. He quickly carried me from the earth to the Holy City. In the city I saw a temple, which I entered. I passed through a door before I came to the first veil. This veil was raised, and I passed into the holy place. Here I saw the altar of incense, the candlestick with seven lamps, and the table on which was the shewbread. After viewing the glory of the holy, Jesus raised the second veil and I passed into the holy of holies.
In the holiest I saw an ark; on the top and sides of it was purest gold. On each end of the ark was a lovely cherub, with its wings spread out over it. Their faces were turned toward each other, and they looked downward. Between the angels was a golden censer. Above the ark, where the angels stood, was an exceeding bright glory, that appeared like a throne where God dwelt. Jesus stood by the ark, and as the saints' prayers came up to Him, the incense in the censer would smoke, and He would offer up their prayers with the smoke of the incense to His Father. In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were four, and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious -- a halo of glory was all around it. I saw that the Sabbath commandment was not nailed to the cross. If it was, the other nine commandments were; and we are at liberty to break them all, as well as to break the fourth. I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for He never changes. But the pope had changed it from the seventh to the first day of the week; for he was to change times and laws ....
I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints (Early Writings, 1963, pp. 32,33). The summary meaning of this EGW vision is stated as follows: In this revelation, Mrs. White was carried down to the close of time and saw the Sabbath as the great testing truth on which men decide whether to serve God or to serve an apostate power (Early Writings, pp. XXI, XXII).
But John Saw No Temple!
Several important points need to be mentioned about this key EGW vision: (1) She had this vision of the Holy City and stated that she saw a temple there. In contrast to this, the Apostle John saw the Holy City and stated that it had no temple: I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple (Rev. 21:22).
The Apostle John informs us that there is no temple in the Holy City, where EGW claims she saw one! Note: though we read of a "temple" in Revelation (7:15; 11:1; 11:19; 14:15,17; 15:5-8; 16:1,17) such is not found inside the Holy City, because the Apostle John said there was no need since the Lamb and God are its temple. Since there is no temple in the Holy City, according to Scripture, one must wonder: (1) Did EGW really have this vision? (2) If she did have the vision, it couldn't have been from the same spiritual source that John's vision was from, since the Apostle John said there was no need for a temple there. This single contradiction, centering around the temple in New Jerusalem, is enough to discredit EGW's whole prophetic ministry. This is true because a true prophet can't contradict God's written word. But there is even more to notice from that same vision. EGW stated in that same vision:
... the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name.
Again, Scripture declares something different about the Sabbath: Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day (Deut. 5:15).
Scripture states the Sabbath command when given to Moses was a memorial for Israel to remember their deliverance from Egypt. It was not given in honor of God's holy name. Also, EGW exalted the Sabbath command to primary importance:
I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints (Early Writings, p. 33).
What Is The "Greatest" Commandment
In a different vision, EGW stated that the Sabbath is the "greatest" of the ten commandments:
The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God (Early Writings, p. 65).
In contrast, the Lord Jesus Himself tells us something different about the "greatest" commandment:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments (Mt. 22:36-40).
When Jesus was asked the above question, it would have been the perfect time for the Him to state that the Sabbath command was the greatest command if it was. However, not only didn't He say that, the Lord clearly stated the (first and) greatest command was something else! So again, in contrast to God's message, E. G. White has clearly declared something different. This is the exact opposite of how her prophetic visions are presented:
... Ellen White was given light that helped to explain their difficulty and open the way for the study to continue. The visions also placed the stamp of God's approval upon correct conclusions. Thus the prophetic gift acted as a corrector of error and a confirmer of truth (Early Writings, pp. XXIII, XXIV). Those Who Receive The Mark Of The Beast According to Ellen G. White:
The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false Sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God's law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God (The Great Controversy, 1950, p. 605).
In other words, EGW stated that ONLY Saturday Sabbatarians will not receive "the mark of the beast." If you worship God on Sunday, like the early Christians did (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor.16:2), then you WILL receive the mark of the beast, according to EGW! The Bible states that such a time as when the mark of the beast will be issued will "call for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus" (Rev. 14:12). The "commandments" mentioned in context with that verse especially point to fearing and worshiping God (v. 7). The command to worship God implies that Christians who "remain faithful" to Jesus won't commit idolatry by worshiping the image of the Antichrist. "In A Few Months"
Ellen G. White also related what she says occurred on June 27, 1850:
Some of us have had time to get the truth and to advance step by step, and every step we have taken has given us strength to take the next. But now time is almost finished, and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months. They will also have much to unlearn and much to learn again. Those who would not receive the mark of the beast and his image when the decree goes forth, must have now to say, Nay, we will not regard the institution of the beast (Early Writings, p.67).
Since much more than a few months have gone by since 1850 and the decree to receive the mark of the beast has not been issued, we know this was a definite false prophecy by Ellen G. White. What does Scripture say about this?
You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him (Deut. 18:21,22). According to the Bible, E. G. White was, therefore, a false prophetess. What did Jesus say about false prophets? He warned us to watch out for them for they are deceivers that have the appearance of a Christian:
... and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people (Mt. 24:11).
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves (Mt. 7:15). Furthermore, God told Jeremiah the following about false prophets:
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds" (Jer. 14:14). Apostate Sabbathkeepers "howling in agony" Sabbatarians are given a very solemn warning through a different Ellen G. White vision:
Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, "Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting." I asked who this company were. The angel said, "These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up." I heard them cry with a loud voice, "We have believed in Thy coming, and taught it with energy." And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud. I saw they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet -- trodden the Sabbath underfoot -- and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting (Early Writings, p. 37).
Dear reader, if you are a Seventh Day Adventist (SDA), remember do not be afraid of what any false prophet says (Dt. 18:22), including EGW.
According to the General Index of Early Writings, the people in EGW's vision who were howling in agony were Apostate Sabbathkeepers (p. 307). How convenient to have such a vision that could prevent other Adventists from leaving their group as occurred after "The Disappointment" of Oct. 22, 1844: Almost immediately following the disappointment of October 22, many believers and ministers who had associated themselves with the Advent message dropped away (Early Writings, p. XV). What EGW called a "disappointment" the Bible calls a false prophecy! (William Miller's false prophecy about the Lord's return on 10-22-1844 indicts him too.)
William Miller Rejected SDA Sabbath Teaching!
Ellen G. White was not consistent with her own vision though, for even William Miller turned from keeping the Sabbath, yet she said he would not be held responsible and upon his death entered the heavenly Canaan:
At the time of the disappointment on October 22, 1844, Miller was worn and ill. He depended largely on his younger associates who stood with him in proclaiming the Advent message. They led him to reject the Sabbath truth as it came to his attention soon after the Disappointment. For this they, and not William Miller, will be held responsible (Early Writings, p. 303).
So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth (Early Writings, p. 258).
One must ask from these two EGW revelations: Is God a respecter of persons? The Bible clearly teaches NO (Acts 10:34). But if the apostate sabbathkeeper, William Miller, would not be held responsible, as other apostate sabbathkeepers would, then either: (1) God is a respecter of persons, which is impossible or (2) EGW was not spreading God's truth to people!
Do Angels Carry "Golden Cards" as Passes?
Some ardent SDA members seem to imply that EGW never went beyond Scripture with her visions, but merely confirmed the correct interpretation. This could not be further from the truth. The follow EGW vision mentions golden pass cards that angels need, yet it is impossible for this to be verified with Scripture: Then my attending angel directed me to the city again, where I saw four angels winging their way to the gate of the city. They were just presenting the golden card to the angel at the gate when I saw another angel flying swiftly from the direction of the most excellent glory, and crying with a loud voice to the other angels, and waving something up and down in his hand (Early Writings, 37).
EGW mentions the same elsewhere: All the angels that are commissioned to visit earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out (Early Writings, p. 39).
Friend, there is not the slightest hint of angelic golden cards in Scripture. No Seventh-day Adventist can supply Scriptural support for such. Therefore, members of the SDA church go beyond the Bible for their beliefs and this is because of the writings of Ellen G. White, a Bible-defined false prophetess. Were Our Sins Placed On Jesus Or Satan?
The answer to that question depends on if you believe the revelations of Ellen G. White or the Bible. First, let's look at what EGW says:
It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of his ministration, he will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners (The Great Controversy, p. 422).
Now let's see what the Bible says:
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all (Isa. 53:6).
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21). He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed (1 Pet. 2:24).
Clearly then, EGW has taught something very different from the word of God about this most important issue related to the plan of redemption. The truth is, our sins were laid on Jesus not Satan! EGW also stated in the aforementioned revelation that Satan will finally be blotted from existence. Again, this is clearly different from Scripture:
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Rev. 20:10).
What About The Year 1844?
Today, sincere Seventh Day Adventists believe that Jesus entered the most holy place of the Heaven Temple in 1844 to make final atonement:
Thus those who follow in the light of the prophetic word saw that, instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming (The Great Controversy, p. 422). But before Oct. 22, 1844 the Seventh Day Adventists believed something very different:
Hiram Edson, one of this group, lived in central New York State at Port Gibson. He was the leader of the Adventist in that area. The believers met in his home on October 22, 1844, to await the coming of the Lord (Early Writings, p. XVIII).
Elsewhere EGW wrote about this time period:
Therefore, though they proclaimed the message which God had committed to them to be given to the world, yet through a misapprehension of its meaning they suffered disappointment (The Great Controversy, p. 352).
Dear reader, do you believe that the message that Oct. 22, 1844 was to be the coming of the Lord was the message which God had committed to William Miller and other Adventists to give to the world, as Ellen G. White wrote? Is it possible that God would want that lie about Christ's coming to be taught to the world? Isn't it impossible for God to lie? See Titus 1:2. If EGW was a true spokesperson for God how could she write like this?
Furthermore, in contrast to EGW, the Scriptures clearly teach something different about the point in time that the Lord entered the Most Holy Place. Please note that the following verses were written and fulfilled long before 1844:
We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek (Heb. 6:19,20). He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12).
Please notice the past tense of the aforementioned word entered. But there is even more in Scripture to refute Ellen G. White. The following verse shows the atonement was completed by the time Rom. 5:11 was written:
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement (Rom. 5:11, KJV).
"It Is Finished"
To be more exact as to when the atonement was finished, let's consider the Lord's words from the cross:
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, It is finished. With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit (John 19:30). The words It is finished do NOT mean the end of the moral law, but shows the plan of redemption was finished at that point, according to the Lord Jesus. This is further confirmed by the following:
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split (Mt. 27:50,51).
The tearing of the temple's curtain, before the Holy of Holies, shows that the whole system of sacrifice for sins is now over with once and for all since "the Lamb of God" [Jesus] was slain on the cross for our sins. Clearly, there is no more sacrifice for sin since the cross (Heb.10:10-14). Col. 1:20 supplements this truth: And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
In contrast to Scripture, EGW says:
By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven (The Great Controversy, p. 489). Therefore the announcement that the temple of God was opened in heaven and the ark of His testament was seen points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement (The Great Controversy, p. 433).
Dear reader, which conflicting record about the atonement will you believe?
So where did Ellen G. White get the 1844 date? It comes from a misinterpretation of Dan. 8:14. That verse reads: And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed (Dan 8:14, KJV). By taking the 2300 days mentioned in Dan. 8:14 to mean 2300 years and adding that number to 457 BC, the year that Artaxerxes decreed the restoration and rebuilding of Jerusalem (Ezra 6:1,2), EGW got 1844. Several points need to be made regarding this SDA interpretation:
(1) The SDA people use Ezk. 4:6 and Num. 14:34 to interpret a day to equal a year! But if one is going to reject that Daniel's 2300 days means 2300 literal 24-hour time periods, that is, a little over 6 years, then why shouldn't we use 2 Pet. 3:8 and Psa. 90:4 which states a day is 1,000 years! These verses are just as non-related to Dan 8:14 as Ezk. 4:6 and Num. 14:34!
(2) The NIV version does not say "days" in Dan. 8:14, but instead "evenings and mornings," which clarifies that these are 24 hour time periods, not years, months or anything else. Daniel 8:14 does NOT say "days" in the Hebrew.
(3) The context of Daniel's vision is from 8:9 to 8:27. The context clearly shows the 2300 "evenings and mornings" (also in v. 26) is not years and it should not be calculated from 457 BC. Notice verses 13 and 14 together:
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled -- the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?" He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
NOTICE: Daniel's vision concerns: (1) the daily sacrifice, which the Antichrist will take away (v. 11), (2) the rebellion that causes desolation, (3) the surrender of the sanctuary and (4) the host that will be trampled underfoot. Clearly, the time frame of this is the rebellion that causes desolation, as stated in v. 13. Jesus referred to this same event in Mark 13:14-20. There the context is clearly the great tribulation period for it states then will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning of creation. This shows that EGW, who has been clearly wrong numerous times and is guilty of false prophecy, has also misinterpreted the meaning of Dan. 8:14. She has come up with something different about the atonement which Scripture says was done at the cross.
What Should Seventh-Day Adventist Members Do ...? What should SDA members do when they learn these revealing facts about Ellen G. White's unscriptural revelations and interpretations? They should cleave to Biblical truth only and forsake all teachings that conflict with it. In other words, they should believe the Bible and turn from EGW's teachings!
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Post by trustandobey on Jul 11, 2007 17:34:36 GMT -5
The Early Christians did not keep Sunday, keeping the Commandments by faith was their way of Life. So Lets see if the Bible says the Early Christians really did keep Sunday.
Lord, Did not your Church take up an Offering on Sunday ? 1 Cor 16:1-3
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: on the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem.”
The text doesn’t say, “take up offerings at church on the first day of the week.” Notice what the text does say:
A.) This was a collection “for the saints” and not “of the saints.”
B.) This collection “for the saints” is actually relief aid for the poverty stricken saints in Jerusalem [Romans 15:25-28]
C.) They are to “lay something aside” or “lay by him in store”. The original Greek is translated: “Let each one of you put on one side and store up at home” or “saving it up” Notice this instruction is for individuals to put this gift aside at their HOME and not a collective offering at Church. They were to make an account of how the Lord had prospered them the week prior and to put some of the profit aside at home.
When Paul visited, he would find all the aid ready to take to Jerusalem, This passage doesn’t say the Sabbath had been Changed.
Does Acts describe a church worship service on Sunday morning? Acts 20:7-11
“now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until Mid night. There were many lights in the upper room where they were gathered together.
And in a window sat a certain young man named eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, “do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him. Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till Dawn, he departed. Finally, we’ve found a meeting on the first day of the week.
And it is a religious meeting. But does it say the Sabbath was changed or that the disciples always kept Sunday? NO!
A.) The disciples preached and broke bread “daily” every day of the week – [Acts 2:46]
B.) Braking bread, doesn’t make this a communion at a church service. This phrase often describes eating a meal as in “breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food” Even if it were a communion service, the Bible doesn’t say communion was held only on Sundays. [Acts 27:33-35]
C.) This meeting took place in the evening of the first day. How did God create a Day, Evening and Morning where the first day. Darkness was first, then day.
This took place Saturday Night and in the Dawn Paul departed. If Sunday was the Day of Worship, why did Paul Leave, should not he preach or attend Church services on God’s Holy Day, Friend No! Sunday is a work day, Paul walked about 25 miles: That is all day long.
No Sunday worship Here.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jul 11, 2007 17:59:23 GMT -5
The Devil is not immortal, for only God is immortal. The Devil will be tormented until he will be burned into Ash and be no More.
Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
When coming to two text that seem to contradict each other. The Doctrine of Hell, will prevail as truth. Hell is only Temperary, therefore the Devil will not burn for ever and Ever.
The Bible uses forever and ever approx 54 times, with something already ended. The Bible only answers itself, no private intretations will prevail.
Anything attacted to the Lord using forever and ever, is eternal for God is Eternal.
According to your post on Hell, you appear to agree Hell, is as long as you burn to Ash 'Temporary'. And be no more. So this is out of context with your beliefs, as it does appears to me. Maybe I am wrong.
Did you do this research yourself or did you use some elses research, and just agree with it. and if so please idenify the Author of the website, book etc. Thank you
TrustandObey
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Post by overcomeevil on Jul 18, 2007 14:15:18 GMT -5
This is taken from the second to last paragraph from "Marks of the New Birth" by John Wesley "Verily, verily, I say unto you, ye" also "must be born again." "Except ye" also "be born again, ye cannot see the kingdom of God." Lean no more on the staff of that broken reed, that ye were born again in baptism. Who denies that ye were then made children of God, and heirs of the kingdom of heaven? But, notwithstanding this, ye are now children of the devil. Therefore ye must be born again. And let not Satan put it into your heart to cavil at a word, when the thing is clear. Ye have heard what are the marks of the children of God: All ye who have them not on your souls, baptized or unbaptized, must needs receive them, or without doubt ye will perish everlastingly. And if ye have been baptized, your only hope is this, -- that those who were made the children of God by baptism, but are now the children of the devil, may yet again receive "power to become the sons of God;" that they may receive again what they have lost, even the "Spirit of adoption, crying in their hearts, Abba, Father!" You can read a little more at the website. Click on "Born Again" and you will be able to read this whole paper. Particularly the last few paragraphs on this subject. It used to be common knowlege that baptism and the new birth went together. Mike www.OvercomeEvil.com
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Jan 27, 2008 1:26:58 GMT -5
What do we do with those who can't be baptised in water due to imprisonment, and physical and geographical circumstances? I'm wondering what happens to those in prison on death row who can't be baptised. Also, what about people in wheelchairs who can't recieve water baptism. Is there hope for the one who is in the desert lands who cant be baptised? What do we make of these people Amen to that, I was also thinking about the thief on the cross in respect to Baptism and how it relates to what you stated. My doctrinal stance is that Baptism is essential after coming to Christ if one is able to be baptized. But for those that you mentioned it would not be from my understanding of scripture essential because God doesn't command us to do what we can't do. In Christ Matt
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