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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Aug 25, 2006 2:20:05 GMT -5
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Post by robdog on Aug 25, 2006 12:06:42 GMT -5
I gotta disagree. Wouldn't the greek be the only true Word. I do agree that some new versions sell God short and omit things, but that's what the subtext and notes are for. What would you tell a three year old reading a picture Bible? Don't let Satan decieve you with those pictures kid?
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 25, 2006 18:45:42 GMT -5
Would it be too shocking to you if I said that the AV is copywrite too? You KJV guys knew that though right?
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Aug 25, 2006 22:58:13 GMT -5
Guys,
I don't want to debate this over again. The reason I made this video was to show the truth about the modern bible versions.
I know that many will not agree, and thats fine.
The KJB is God's perfect Word. Not the Greek etc because we don't have the originals today.
The KJB text is not copyright only the study notes and maps in the bibles are.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 26, 2006 0:23:56 GMT -5
Rob Dog,
Wouldn't the greek be the only true Word.
What about the Egyptian? Moses spoke to Pharaoh in Egyptian and yet the book of Exodus was written in Hebrew.
So which is the original?
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Post by cervyy on Aug 26, 2006 1:18:58 GMT -5
None of the versions that we have at our fingertips are even close to original. They're not even runner-up!!
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Post by robdog on Aug 26, 2006 8:43:41 GMT -5
None of the versions that we have at our fingertips are even close to original. They're not even runner-up!! Actually, they're the most accurate ancient documents in all antiquity. Google "Bible manuscripts."
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Post by robdog on Aug 26, 2006 8:44:12 GMT -5
...Sorry to argue Jon, it just seems like there are so many other things we can dedicate our time to then debating which Bible is the most correct translation...It's worth discussing, but not dividing over.
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Post by cervyy on Aug 26, 2006 14:20:47 GMT -5
Actually, they're the most accurate ancient documents in all antiquity. Google "Bible manuscripts." Ah, MOST accurate however, not COMPLETELY accurate. Most also does not signifay 99% accuracy either! It could be only 10% accurate, as long as it's only a little more accurate then other versions. That statement is an admission that it is not 100 % accurate. If it's not 100 % accurate, which parts are accurate? We don't know.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 26, 2006 16:54:50 GMT -5
I don't want to debate it either. But Crown Publishing holds the copyright to the KJV. It's not a wordwide copyright, it's only restricted in the UK. I just wanted to point out that the KJV is not "unbound" everywhere. Atleast not in the sense that the speaker was saying it was.
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Post by robdog on Aug 26, 2006 17:50:11 GMT -5
And the presentation was not as meek as to be expected from a Christian...It was more of an attack on non-kjv-ers then supporting the kjv...
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Post by robdog on Aug 26, 2006 17:52:05 GMT -5
Actually, they're the most accurate ancient documents in all antiquity. Google "Bible manuscripts." not COMPLETELY accurate. You can assume, but you can't support that statement.
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Post by cervyy on Aug 26, 2006 18:00:16 GMT -5
Nor can you prove it IS indeed 100% accurate
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Post by robdog on Aug 26, 2006 18:33:18 GMT -5
Nor can you prove it IS indeed 100% accurate Ah, but I can prove it to be the Word of God by it's repeated fulfilled prophecy...If God can the predict the future and raise men from the dead, don't you think he could get a perfect book into our hands?
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Post by cervyy on Aug 26, 2006 22:34:58 GMT -5
A perfect book at one time sure, but is it the same book now?? Nosireebob.
Now, if you wouldn't mind, please point out where in the Bible it guarantees I'm reading a 100% accurate, non-tampered with Bible?? Oh wait, you can't. I even remember Miles saying the Bible doesn't say that. Sure, it warns that if someone WERE to add to it, they'd burn in hell. But it doesn't say that those tampered with versions STOP circulating. Miles only said he BELIEVED (with no Biblical proof) that God COULD keep the Bible pure. Not that he did.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 26, 2006 22:51:06 GMT -5
Ps 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Ps 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Ps 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
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Post by cervyy on Aug 26, 2006 23:57:59 GMT -5
"settled in HEAVEN," note, key word there is heaven NOT a book.
"Forever," but where?? In heaven like the above passage? Or in the not-yet-formed New Testament??
Again, see above.
Stand forever, WHERE???
Abideth WHERE???
And the last one, a but of a doozey (and being half-asleep sure helps). What I can say though, is that the version of the Bible I have doesn't even have the line "And this is the word etc." But "preached" and "written," two different verbs, two different meanings.
The point I'm trying to make is, God's word sure has been kept well if we've got so many versions.
And thanks for proving Miles kinda wrong for me. That kinda made me smile.
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 27, 2006 11:46:16 GMT -5
Brother, I see that video as a tremendous waste of valuable time. think of how many people died while you were making that! Think of how many people sank into hell while you were setting at the computer making that. I saw quite a few filthy words in those comics brother, is that Christian? I read only the KJV, and I disagree. Do you know why they have copyrights on those bible translations? So that people dont make changes to them that are not authroized, not to make money. I couldnt even watch the whole thing. To go so far as to say that every other translation is of the devil??? Come on brother? I wil just take that as a joke unless you tell me otherwise. The NKJV is a decent translation. But anyway, those comics are rather filthy, no offense brother. I just thought I would voice what I thought This isnt personal against you brother, it justs grieves me.
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Post by cervyy on Aug 27, 2006 22:30:01 GMT -5
"To go so far as to say that every other translation is of the devil???"
I have to agree, that does seem a tad harsh ... but then Thumpy keeps surprising me with his beliefs (ppl are gay because their parents sinned). I couldn't even guess if he was joking.
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Post by Miles Lewis on Aug 27, 2006 23:40:04 GMT -5
A perfect book at one time sure, but is it the same book now?? Nosireebob. Now, if you wouldn't mind, please point out where in the Bible it guarantees I'm reading a 100% accurate, non-tampered with Bible?? Oh wait, you can't. I even remember Miles saying the Bible doesn't say that. Sure, it warns that if someone WERE to add to it, they'd burn in hell. But it doesn't say that those tampered with versions STOP circulating. Miles only said he BELIEVED (with no Biblical proof) that God COULD keep the Bible pure. Not that he did. I don't know what version you are using, it just might be a tampered with version. What exactly are you trying to say that I said and how did Biblethumper prove me wrong?
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Post by cervyy on Aug 27, 2006 23:49:46 GMT -5
I just remembered you saying that God was so powerful, how could he not keep his Bible in tact? That statement said to me, there was nowhere in the Bible that actually said that. You only believed this as an assumption you made based on God. BUT Thumpy provided some verses (only one though came close to proving the Bible said that God actually would keep his Bible whole/pure).
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Aug 28, 2006 1:12:22 GMT -5
Brother, I see that video as a tremendous waste of valuable time. think of how many people died while you were making that! Think of how many people sank into hell while you were setting at the computer making that. I saw quite a few filthy words in those comics brother, is that Christian? I read only the KJV, and I disagree. Do you know why they have copyrights on those bible translations? So that people dont make changes to them that are not authroized, not to make money. I couldnt even watch the whole thing. To go so far as to say that every other translation is of the devil??? Come on brother? I wil just take that as a joke unless you tell me otherwise. The NKJV is a decent translation. But anyway, those comics are rather filthy, no offense brother. I just thought I would voice what I thought This isnt personal against you brother, it justs grieves me. I appreciate your words Evan. Unfortunately the truth does hurt sometimes. I had some spare time on Friday afternoon and after reading more into the topic I decided to take a solid stand on the KJB. I am posting this video on many other MB (not just this one) why? Because people need to know the truth. Again, you may not agree with me and that is fine. That is up to you. I am just fed up with all the modern versions that are available today. We want God to do great things through us. Why should God do great things through us when we don't even accept that He has given us His perfect Word today (KJB). We read of the great revivals of old and the great preachers, God used them because they took a stand on His Word. People even went to death over it. We will not see God's great work today using all these modern versions and doubting the KJB. 'Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.' (2 Tim 4:2)
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 28, 2006 14:48:54 GMT -5
Yes, they did stand on His word. I agree brother. However, I challenge you to prove to me, using scripture, that the KJV is the only adequate translation . I think you will find that it is rather difficult, yea, even impossible. . I dont recall anyone going to the stake for the KJV. I know Wycliffe and Tyndale went to the stake, but not for the KJV. In fact, I am almost sure that you do not even read a KJV 1611 - but rather an Americanized version of the KJV 1611. The true 1611 is very hard to read as the spelling is not at all like it is in the translations that pose to be 1611's. Just a few thoughts brother. I admire you confidence and courage to stand even in the face of opposition brother. I do love you, I am just concerned. Dont let my oppostion dissuade you, as this is not an issue of salvation. However, if you do, like some do, go so far as to say that people who dont read the KJV are not saved...then we have a debate on our hands . But I am fairly confident that you kow salvation is a PERSON, not a translation. Salvtion IS Jesus Christ. Evan
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 28, 2006 18:30:27 GMT -5
I also have to agree SOMEWHAT...
lemme explain....
I am a KJVO advocate also; I read nothing else, promote nothing else as the Word of God and am 100% KJVO.
However, many KJO advocates are tight knit "meanies" who get kicks out of trashing people BECAUSE of the their choice of other versions.
My church fellowship uses a version other than the KJ in it's services; many KJO advocates, on thsi basis alone, would "dis-fellowship" on this ground ALONE... regardless of that church's Gospel Message, Holiness Lifestyle, etc etc.
I find myself in better company with NON KJO people; they seem much more in Love with Jesus....
There are DEFINATELY great Brethren in the KJO camp; however, because of the brainwashing tactics of many of the KJO leaders, it's unhealthy to stick too close to those whose time and efforts center around the version issue rather than the Person of Christ and His Gospel.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 28, 2006 20:03:58 GMT -5
Brother, I see that video as a tremendous waste of valuable time. think of how many people died while you were making that! Think of how many people sank into hell while you were setting at the computer making that. I saw quite a few filthy words in those comics brother, is that Christian? I read only the KJV, and I disagree. Do you know why they have copyrights on those bible translations? So that people dont make changes to them that are not authroized, not to make money. I couldnt even watch the whole thing.
To go so far as to say that every other translation is of the devil??? Come on brother? I wil just take that as a joke unless you tell me otherwise. The NKJV is a decent translation. But anyway, those comics are rather filthy, no offense brother. I just thought I would voice what I thought This isnt personal against you brother, it justs grieves me.Evan, It shouldn't grieve you. I agree if all we did is sit around arguing about the KJB and nothing else. But you know Bro. that the SWAT team is out there in the streets preaching the gospel just like you are. Are the cartoons offensive. Well I don't know. If, as a Catholic I had seen some of the cartoons in Jack Chick's tracts I guess I would have found them offensive. But now I see them as accurately portraying the truth about Catholicism. Likewise I believe these cartoons also accurately portray the truth about the new perversions. I do not believe they are attacking those who are ignorant of the true facts. They are attacking those who are being WILFULLY IGNORANT, there is a difference. We have discussed this issue on this board at length before so I agree there is no need to go over it again.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 28, 2006 20:09:12 GMT -5
However, if you do, like some do, go so far as to say that people who dont read the KJV are not saved...then we have a debate on our hands . But I am fairly confident that you kow salvation is a PERSON, not a translation. Salvtion IS Jesus Christ.Amen Bro. Those KJVO people who make that claim are a CULT. The SWAT team disassociates itself from anyone who would teach such heresy and I know that some do. That's the problem of tarnishing everyone with the same brush, and of course I know you are not doing that. Thank's for that comment.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 28, 2006 20:15:30 GMT -5
There are DEFINATELY great Brethren in the KJO camp; however, because of the brainwashing tactics of many of the KJO leaders, it's unhealthy to stick too close to those whose time and efforts center around the version issue rather than the Person of Christ and His Gospel.
Agree with you Biblethumper whole heartedly.
I know what you think of Ruckman and Riplinger.
Have you ever come across Dr Sam Gipp?
I met him last year when came to Sydney.
Heard him preach three times and he never mentioned the KJB issue. He came across as being a godly man, a zealous soul-winner and willing to stand up for the truth in a courteous manner.
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Post by luketentwo on Aug 28, 2006 21:08:23 GMT -5
I know a picture is woth a thousand word, or so "they" say, so take a look at this.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 28, 2006 21:14:57 GMT -5
lukentwo,
They forgot to include the 'original' Greek and Hebrew!
or did they.....
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Post by luketentwo on Aug 28, 2006 21:16:50 GMT -5
true, oh well, I thought that at a glance it was kind of a birds eye view of what was being discussed
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