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Post by jerh2007 on Nov 13, 2006 21:21:54 GMT -5
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Nov 14, 2006 3:49:14 GMT -5
If this pastor wanted a real glimpse of hell all he needed to do was meditate on Luke 16:19-31.
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Post by jerh2007 on Nov 17, 2006 2:47:07 GMT -5
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Post by alan4jc on Nov 17, 2006 17:08:19 GMT -5
Watched it! Believe it! Preach it! Warn all men everywhere of the judgment day!
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Post by tbxi on Nov 17, 2006 21:25:53 GMT -5
I have heard of these kinds of things before, and I don't believe in them. People have all kinds of NDEs; some people think they are in hell, some people feel peaceful and think they're in heaven, some people just go through a sort of ethereal experience and come back without any sort of spiritual concern. Due to this, I don't think we should be basing our theology on personal experiences with NDEs...
Did the guy's heart just stop for that 23 minutes, or even that? Did he have a flat brain wave? I have heard the latter is how we've been defining death lately. People do not come back from brain death.
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Post by Doc H on Nov 19, 2006 18:56:20 GMT -5
I have heard of these kinds of things before, and I don't believe in them. People have all kinds of NDEs; some people think they are in hell, some people feel peaceful and think they're in heaven, some people just go through a sort of ethereal experience and come back without any sort of spiritual concern. Due to this, I don't think we should be basing our theology on personal experiences with NDEs... Did the guy's heart just stop for that 23 minutes, or even that? Did he have a flat brain wave? I have heard the latter is how we've been defining death lately. People do not come back from brain death. Spot on tbxi, Again this has been discussed before. Dead=Dead, otherwise I may have performed thousands of autopsies on live people. Can God raise people from the dead-sure he can, nothing is impossible with God. The reason why he did was to prove the Messiahship of Jesus Christ and prove that the Apostles had authority from God to speak on his behalf. Now that we have the Bible we have a more sure word of prophecy than signs, wonders, resurrections and experiences. Does God raise the dead today? I don't believe he does, neither does he give visions of hell and heaven. If he does, then keep your MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT! If Paul wasn't allowed to talk about what he saw when taken up to the third heaven, then what right does anyone else? biblethumper, Before you ask me what about John in the book of Revelation, let me remind you he was an apostle and the canon of scripture is now CLOSED.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Nov 20, 2006 0:31:05 GMT -5
There are many out there who have some 'experience'. If it doesn't match up with the bible then it is not true. And obviously all of these 'experiences' never match up with the bible.
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Post by alan4jc on Nov 20, 2006 1:16:32 GMT -5
Just for the record my close friend who is a believer and I worked together and he had a heart problem and flatlined 4-5 times and during the last time he told us there was a bright light that was spinning real fast and he doesn't know if he was moving toward it or it towards him. But he said he wanted to go and was at peace and seemed excited to go. I was right there with he and his wife when this happened. Sure it isn't like someone going to Hell, but why do christians always seem to deny the spiritual things, I'm not saying to blinbelieve everythig. But God is alot bigger than we are and we just can't say we know how He will always work.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Nov 20, 2006 1:22:00 GMT -5
I believe God can give us peace concerning death. A family friend is dying of cancer. He has peace that he is on his way to heaven. This is the peace that God gives christians.
I'm reminded of the scripture:
'For God is not the author of confusion.' (1 Cor 14:33)
All we need to know about heaven and hell we get from the bible.
Nothing more, nothing less!
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Post by tbxi on Nov 20, 2006 1:30:02 GMT -5
Just for the record my close friend who is a believer and I worked together and he had a heart problem and flatlined 4-5 times and during the last time he told us there was a bright light that was spinning real fast and he doesn't know if he was moving toward it or it towards him. But he said he wanted to go and was at peace and seemed excited to go. I was right there with he and his wife when this happened. Sure it isn't like someone going to Hell, but why do christians always seem to deny the spiritual things, I'm not saying to blinbelieve everythig. But God is alot bigger than we are and we just can't say we know how He will always work. Was it his heart that flatlined or his brain? I'm going to guess it was his heart, because when your brain dies, you are dead and you do not come back. It would be normal for a believer to be at peace when near death and that is a good thing. I realize you are not saying we should believe everything. But NDEs are so subjective that we cannot possibly say they give us any kind of objective truth or anything useful for ... well, anything. The fact that an unbeliever can have an NDE and come back feeling MORE at peace about their inevitable death makes that pretty clear, in my book...
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Post by Doc H on Nov 20, 2006 20:01:39 GMT -5
Just for the record my close friend who is a believer and I worked together and he had a heart problem and flatlined 4-5 times and during the last time he told us there was a bright light that was spinning real fast and he doesn't know if he was moving toward it or it towards him. But he said he wanted to go and was at peace and seemed excited to go. I was right there with he and his wife when this happened. Sure it isn't like someone going to Hell, but why do christians always seem to deny the spiritual things, I'm not saying to blinbelieve everythig. But God is alot bigger than we are and we just can't say we know how He will always work. This is a typical near death experience. Christians, Budhists, Muslims, Atheists and all sundry have experienced this. It means nothing!
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Post by biblethumper on Nov 21, 2006 15:01:48 GMT -5
Just for the record my close friend who is a believer and I worked together and he had a heart problem and flatlined 4-5 times and during the last time he told us there was a bright light that was spinning real fast and he doesn't know if he was moving toward it or it towards him. But he said he wanted to go and was at peace and seemed excited to go. I was right there with he and his wife when this happened. Sure it isn't like someone going to Hell, but why do christians always seem to deny the spiritual things, I'm not saying to blinbelieve everythig. But God is alot bigger than we are and we just can't say we know how He will always work. This is a typical near death experience. Christians, Budhists, Muslims, Atheists and all sundry have experienced this. It means nothing! The Bible talks about being Born Again in John 3:3... no one dis[putes that one must experience the New Birth in order to become a Child of God. You see, what makes the Word of God so real and alive is in it's power YESTERDAY, and TODAY and FOREVER. Say what you will, but I choose to believe that 1 Cor 12-14, along with all other Books of the Bible, are for me...today and always.
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Post by Doc H on Nov 21, 2006 19:57:26 GMT -5
Say what you will, but I choose to believe that 1 Cor 12-14, along with all other Books of the Bible, are for me...today and always.
I sure you stand by this statement?
All the books are for today?
So do you advocate stoning to death homosexuals and adulterers?
What about children who dishonor their parents?
What about keeping the ceromonial and civil OT laws?
How's about foot washing?
Yes, ALL the books are for our learning but they do not ALL apply to us today!
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