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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 5, 2008 7:25:01 GMT -5
I just uploaded a video of me preaching/teaching on the first letter of T.U.L.I.P. I hope to have the rest of the series up by the end of the week. CLICK HERE to watch.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Mar 5, 2008 12:51:48 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this teaching brother, keep up the good work in the name of our Lord.
In Christ Matt
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 5, 2008 15:13:36 GMT -5
This is a great teaching video. If someone can get a proper understanding, that man's character is totally depraved, but only because man's constitution is not totally depraved, then they will get a proper understanding that man is a criminal and not a crippled.
If a person can grasp the true concept of total depravity, and understand what total depravity is not, then all of Calvinism completely falls to the way side. But their version of "total depravity" is right, then all of TULIP has to be right. But if their view of "total depravity" is faulty, then their entire system falls apart.
The entire series that Kerrigan did on TULIP is a great series. I would encourage everyone to watch them.
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Post by joem on Mar 6, 2008 9:35:20 GMT -5
I was able to watch about an hour of the video so far and enjoyed thoroughly. Great points and great presentation. I look forward to the rest of the series!
Grace and Peace, Joe
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Post by sean on Mar 6, 2008 17:59:18 GMT -5
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Post by sean on Mar 6, 2008 18:06:41 GMT -5
David didn't "finally" decide to give up his sin as you said. No...God had to send a prophet to REBUKE David and expose his heart to lead him to repentance. Again the source was God and His Grace and not David and his choice.
Also, let me ask you a question. If men are able to repent on their own..as you say... then why does God have the Holy Spirit draw men (which you believe He does)?
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 6, 2008 18:46:41 GMT -5
I didn't "appeal" to the Early Church Fathers as you say. I just simply quoted from them to show that the Calvinist Doctrines of Total Depravity/Total Inability and Original Sin are NOT historical...
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 6, 2008 18:50:26 GMT -5
David didn't "finally" decide to give up his sin as you said. No...God had to send a prophet to REBUKE David and expose his heart to lead him to repentance. Again the source was God and His Grace and not David and his choice. Also, let me ask you a question. If men are able to repent on their own..as you say... then why does God have the Holy Spirit draw men (which you believe He does)? Just because God sent David a prophet to rebuke him, doesn't mean that he had to give up his sin. Of course God sends people our way to preach the truth to us, but that doesn't mean that we have to obey the rebukes of the preachers. I preach all over the place every week. Hundreds of students hear the word of God preached every week. That doesn't mean that they have to choose to Repent and Trust in Christ. In the end, David did NOT have to receive the rebuke of Nathan. He could have hardened his heart, but he DID receive it and CHOOSE to give up his sin. The second part of your question is a Straw Man. I never said they Repent "on their own." God has given ALL men the gift of free will, is drawing ALL men near through the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is convicting the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgment.
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Post by danlirette on Mar 6, 2008 18:52:26 GMT -5
In the end, David did NOT have to receive the rebuke of Nathan. He could have hardened his heart, but he DID receive it and CHOOSE to give up his sin. Do you believe that he was being convicted of his sin by God's Holy Spirit or that his choosing to forsake sin was of his own accord without the convicting Power of God?
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 6, 2008 18:56:28 GMT -5
In the end, David did NOT have to receive the rebuke of Nathan. He could have hardened his heart, but he DID receive it and CHOOSE to give up his sin. Do you believe that he was being convicted of his sin by God's Holy Spirit or that his choosing to forsake sin was of his own accord without the convicting Power of God? There has NEVER been a sinner nor will there EVER be a sinner who didn't or won't come to God because God was FIRST working in the sinner's heart...
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Post by danlirette on Mar 6, 2008 18:57:37 GMT -5
Do you believe that he was being convicted of his sin by God's Holy Spirit or that his choosing to forsake sin was of his own accord without the convicting Power of God? There has NEVER been a sinner nor will there EVER be a sinner who didn't or won't come to God because God was FIRST working in the sinner's heart... Amen on that!
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Post by sean on Mar 6, 2008 19:26:03 GMT -5
I didn't "appeal" to the Early Church Fathers as you say. I just simply quoted from them to show that the Calvinist Doctrines of Total Depravity/Total Inability and Original Sin are NOT historical... If you're quoting them...you're appealing to them. same thing. If you've using them to show that total depravity is not historical you put yourself in the same boat as the catholics. They would appeal to the same men you are to defend their religious system of priest, bishops, popes...ect. So do you agree with them on this subject as well?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 6, 2008 19:26:41 GMT -5
If men didn't have a free will, it would make no sense for the Holy Spirit to draw us.
Why would the Holy Spirit have to draw us away from sin if it was God who decreed that we should sin, if sin was not our own free will choice?
The Holy Spirit needs to make us willing to do what God at creation already made us able to do. The problem with sinners is that they are unwilling, not unable, so they are criminals not cripples. And the Holy Spirit is working upon all men, convicting them of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come, to break their will and bring them to a place of voluntary and broken submission and surrender.
That is why we must preach the Gospel to sinners, to influence them to rightly use their free will, to influence them to make the decision to forsake all their sin and to surrender unto the Lordship of Christ. And that is what the Holy Spirit is trying to do as well.
God wants everyone to repent and be saved (Acts 17:30-31; 2 Pet. 3:9). The atonement makes salvation possible and available to all men, it is a gift that God offers to all to accept and receive (Jn. 1:20; Lk. 14:17; Rom 5:18) through a decision (2 Cor. 5:20) to repent and believe, though many reject God’s offer (Lk. 14:18-20) and resist His grace (Gen. 6:30; Lk. 7:30; Acts 7:51). God is trying to save all men (Jn. 3:16, 6:44-45, 12:32; 16:8; Acts 17:30-31, 2 Pet. 3:9).
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truth2liberty
Junior Member
?God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.?
Posts: 65
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Post by truth2liberty on Mar 6, 2008 19:29:06 GMT -5
Man is indeed "Totally Depraved" for he was made in the image of God. Mans depravity is only in light of the diparity between Fathers design and mans purpose to Live in the Love and fellowship of God and for the creed "Holiness unto the Lord." Man willfully, universally and personally rebelled against the light of the Truth, the will of God revealed through His conscience and the Word of God. We all like sheep have gone astray, we have all rebelled, eaten our share of the forbidden fruit. Turned our back on "Our Father", said along with lucifer, "I will ascend and be like God!" The the Holy and Glorious One, had no choice but to cast us from His presence. Who shall save me from my "Total depravity"? Thank You Jesus for your Precious Blood that Sets the Captives Free and Restores the Royal Priesthood who's creed and cry is "Holiness unto the Lord!" Thank You Jesus! Worthy is the Lamb!
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 6, 2008 19:38:35 GMT -5
I didn't "appeal" to the Early Church Fathers as you say. I just simply quoted from them to show that the Calvinist Doctrines of Total Depravity/Total Inability and Original Sin are NOT historical... If you're quoting them...you're appealing to them. same thing. If you've using them to show that total depravity is not historical you put yourself in the same boat as the catholics. They would appeal to the same men you are to defend their religious system of priest, bishops, popes...ect. So do you agree with them on this subject as well? Actually, Catholics don't quote the same ECF's that I quote. Say what you want Sean, this issue has NOTHING to do with the ECF's. This has to do with Scripture. Can you refute what I have said from SCRIPTURE?
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Post by sean on Mar 6, 2008 20:35:31 GMT -5
The reason I bring them up is because you appeal to them in your sermon. If this has nothing to do with them then don't bring them up in your preaching. But, I will respond to your sermon.... I just have to finish listening to it. I'm only about 35 min into it. I had to leave for a while but will finish it tonight.
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 6, 2008 20:37:47 GMT -5
The reason I bring them up is because you appeal to them in your sermon. If this has nothing to do with them then don't bring them up in your preaching. But, I will respond to your sermon.... I just have to finish listening to it. I'm only about 35 min into it. I had to leave for a while but will finish it tonight. Sean, as I said in the other thread, just because I quote somebody in a sermon, doesn't mean that I agree with everything they say or that I think their teachings have the same authority as Scripture...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 6, 2008 21:23:57 GMT -5
Sinners are totally morally depraved by choice not by birth. Sinners have absolutely no righteousness, their heart is entirely wicked by choice.
But sinners are not totally constitutionally depraved, that is because they were formed by God in the womb, it was God who gave them their constitutional nature. Our nature has a free will and a conscience, our body has good appetites given to us by God. Our body does function and the faculties of our personality are also functional.
So it is the character of sinners, and not the constitution of sinners, which is totally and entirely depraved.
God has given us our constitutional nature, and it is good. But man has given himself his own moral nature, for the Christian their moral nature (habit) is holy and good, while the sinner's moral nature (habit) is wicked, rebellious, selfish.
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Post by John McGlone on May 25, 2008 11:31:45 GMT -5
bump
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