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Post by tomah on Feb 2, 2006 19:24:36 GMT -5
I was asked by an unsaved man today if those in gentile nations prior Christs coming went to hell or not. My first instinct was 'yes, they went to hell apart from those like Ruth who received Jehovah as God.' But just as I was thinking that the verse in Acts 17 where Paul says "the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." And I thought "does this mean that God overlooked (winked) at those who knew not the truth in O.T. times?"
I haven't had time yet to look into it, but thought i'd throw it in here to see the response.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 2, 2006 19:33:46 GMT -5
As far as I know God has always allowed the Gentiles to worship Him. Wasn't that what the court of the Gentiles is for in the temple?
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Post by tomah on Feb 2, 2006 19:47:45 GMT -5
Don't know brother. I thought maybe the court of the gentiles was where the Jews were to pray for the gentiles. That's why Christ was angry because they made it into a place of buying and selling. Do you think Gentiles didn't go to hell then?
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 2, 2006 20:06:46 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if you can say one large sweeping statement about the Gentiles... What about Rahab the Harlot? Did she go to hell? I guess it would depend on who they worshipped: God or pagan gods. Not all the Jews were saved just because they were Jews. What about Korah and his rebellion? Did they go to heaven after the earth swallowed them up? This may venture into other doctrines... but could it have been their choice? Ok, you can omit that last line if you want, I couldn't help myself.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 2, 2006 20:13:10 GMT -5
Here is what John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible says about that passage you refered to (this is the commentary of when Matt. mentions it): My house shall be called the house of prayer. These are the, words of God, calling the temple his house, which was built according to the plan he gave; and was the place of his worship, and where he dwelt, and vouchsafed his presence to his people; and signifying, that in time to come, it should be an house of prayer; not for the Jews only, but for the Gentiles also: "for all people", as it is expressed by the prophet, and cited by Mark; and particularly this part of it, in which were the money changers and sellers of doves; for that was the court of the Gentiles, where they were admitted to pray, and perform other parts of worship. These words are rightly applied by Christ to the temple; nor can the Jews themselves deny it; for their own Targum paraphrases it thus, áéú î÷ãùé, "the house of my sanctuary shall be called an house of prayer"; or shall be one; for the meaning is not that it should go by such a name, but should be for such use, and not for buying and selling, and merchandise, to which use the Jews now put it: hence it follows,
but ye have made it a den of thieves. These are the words of Christ, affirming what is complained of in Jer_7:11 and applying it to the present case, on account of the wicked merchandise, unlawful gain, avarice and extortion, of the priests and other officers of the temple, who had a considerable share in these things; and to whom the temple was, and by them used, as a den is to and by thieves and robbers, where they shelter themselves; for these persons robbed both God and man, and the temple was a sanctuary to them: here they screened themselves, and, under the appearance of religion and devotion, devoured widows' houses, plundered persons of their substance, and were full of extortion and excess.
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Post by tomah on Feb 2, 2006 20:31:29 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if you can say one large sweeping statement about the Gentiles... What about Rahab the Harlot? Did she go to hell? I guess it would depend on who they worshipped: God or pagan gods. Not all the Jews were saved just because they were Jews. What about Korah and his rebellion? Did they go to heaven after the earth swallowed them up? This may venture into other doctrines... but could it have been their choice? Ok, you can omit that last line if you want, I couldn't help myself. The Jews like Korah knew the truth though and rebelled so he and his followers went to hell. The 'winking' of God seems to apply to the gentiles as it was gentiles Paul was preaching to. Rahab went to heaven Heb 11:31 says. It says that the others perished but i'm not sure whether that is physically or eternally.
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Post by ejuliot on Feb 2, 2006 22:46:43 GMT -5
I think it wouldn't be any different than the question we always get about the pigmies in Africa going to hell. Everyone deserves to go to hell, so it isn't like God would be unfair by sending them to hell. As for Acts 17:30, I actually just read this verse yesterday and thought the same thing. I think that they did go to hell and God overlooked them because he did not send them any prophet to warn them. The reason why is because of Romans chapter 2. Here is a snippet but I would read chapters 1 and 2 for context.
Romans 2:11-16 "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
I would say that they probably still went to hell because their conscience would accuse them of idolatry because the law was written on their heart. So, God would be unjust if he did not punish them. As for what they were ignorant about... I think Romans chapter 1 covers that. I am not absolutely sure about all this but it was the thought process I went through yesterday and just now. God bless! Liz
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