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Post by evanschaible on Mar 16, 2006 14:53:19 GMT -5
I have heard this term over and over as a stereotype four calvinists, reformed. Why? Pentecostals are reformed. Lutherans are reformed. Prebsyterian are reformed. Methodists are reformed. Anybody who isnt a Roman Catholic is reformed. So what is the deal with this stereotype, reformed?
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 16, 2006 16:33:57 GMT -5
You are wrong! Armen and RickB are the only ones who are officially "reformed" in their theology on this website.
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Post by Steve Noel on Mar 16, 2006 16:39:26 GMT -5
I think part of the problem is that extreme Calvinism has tried to make the Reformation and Calvinism synonymous. They conveniently emphasize the people and events that agree with them.
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Post by evanschaible on Mar 16, 2006 17:54:19 GMT -5
Oh, alright. So we are all reformed then?
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Post by Steve Noel on Mar 16, 2006 21:11:43 GMT -5
It depends on how you define Reformed. If Reformed means believing in T.U.L.I.P., then no. If you mean Protestant, then yes.
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Post by josh on Mar 17, 2006 0:42:25 GMT -5
If you mean reformed as in the Protestanst coming from the reformation, then I am reformed in that sense.
But if you are talking as Reformed theology (i.e Calvinism) then no, I am not reformed.
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Post by tomah on Mar 17, 2006 12:01:34 GMT -5
'Reformed Theology' includes the blessed 'Doctrines of Grace'. The God-given enlightenment upon the vast majority of reformers, whether Calvin, Luther, Tyndale, Zwingli, Knox, Beza, etc, was the spiritual illumination to recognise the truth of what we now call 'Calvinism' or what I prefer to call 'the Doctrines of Grace'.
It was these teachings that changed the history of the world (for the better) and liberated millions of souls and many nations.
The 'Doctrines of Grace' was the main teaching of the Reformers and so it is therefore only right to call it 'Reformed Theology'.
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Post by Juli on Mar 20, 2006 2:36:03 GMT -5
Ask any "Calvinist" if they like that term and most say no. But it is the term others know. By the way, John Calvin did NOT come up with the 5 points of Calvinism. Many people erroneously think this, and because it is named after a man, it is further seen as unbiblical.
The Synod of Dordt was held in order to settle a serious controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism. Jacob Arminius questioned the teaching of Calvin and his followers on a number of important points. After Arminius's death, his own followers presented their views on five of these points in the Remonstrance of 1610. In this document or in later more explicit writings, the Arminians taught election based on foreseen faith, (God chose us because he knew we'd choose him) universal atonement (Christ died for everyone, even those who reject Him), partial depravity (we are not dead in sins, only sick), resistible grace (man can refuse God), and the possibility of a lapse from grace (or one can lose their salvation). In the Canons the Synod of Dordt rejected these views and set forth the Reformed doctrine on these points, namely, unconditional election, limited atonement, (Christ died only for His elect) total depravity (man is dead in his sins, incapable of anything), irresistible grace (those God draws unto Himself will come to Him), and the perseverance of saints (those God calls, God will keep)
I hate theological terms, probably because presuppositions cloud the truth and our understanding. But, to answer the question, individuals who are reformed don't refer to people who don't believe in the 5 points listed above as also being reformed. They just don't, no matter how you dice it. I know, we all came out as Protestants from the reformation. They refer to them as Arminian for the most part.
Within reformed circles you certainly find those with an excess of pride because they "know something others don't" (which makes no sense to me because they certainly didn't "figure it out" themselves and can take credit for it, God showed them), some hyper-calvinists (who think we shouldn't bother with evangelism since God chooses who will be saved) and some who are balanced. The same you find in Arminian circles.
Anytime you hear Doctrines of Grace, sovereignty of God, reformed theology, Calvinism, etc. it all speaks to the points listed above. And it is true - the points all fall or stand together. Most evangelical Christians in mainsteam churches today are 5th point Cavinists (though there are some reformed Baptists, because originally Southern Baptists all held to the doctrines of grace. It was only in the last 100 years things changed as a result of Scofield, etc.) - The majority of Baptists and other Protestant denominations believe in eternal security.
I questioned that doctrine (5th point) instead of questioning the others, of course I had no idea what the 5 points were at the time, but in questioning eternal security, I believed for a while I could lose my salvation. I have never been so miserable and scared in my life. I was scared because I saw my total depravity - I could never obey Him, or have enough faith to the end and be saved. I knew my heart was wicked. And I cried out for His mercy. Seeing my total depravity was the key for me - it all fell into place after that. I realized I had been taught in error and guess what? I didn't shrink back into a self-righteous hyper-Calvinist posture. How could I? I know it is by God's grace FIRST, then my faith SECOND (that HE gives by the way) that I am saved. I plugged into a solid church and my zeal for the lost has never been stronger.
By the way, all reformed or Calvinist people I have met believe you must use the law in the gospel. This is why many in WOTM and GNN are dealing with these issues of Calvinism, Arminianism, eternal security, etc.. It was also through WOTM and using the law that God brought things to clarity for me. For those of you questioning these doctrines and who are willing to challenge your faith a bit, just keep going back to His Word, tackle those difficult passages that have never made sense to you, and ask the Spirit to teach you. Then hold on and get ready for the ride of your life! A faith unchallenged is a faith unchanged. And we all need more faith.
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Post by SlowBro on Mar 21, 2006 3:08:51 GMT -5
I questioned that doctrine (5th point) instead of questioning the others, of course I had no idea what the 5 points were at the time, but in questioning eternal security, I believed for a while I could lose my salvation. I have never been so miserable and scared in my life. I was scared because I saw my total depravity - I could never obey Him, or have enough faith to the end and be saved. I knew my heart was wicked. And I cried out for His mercy. Seeing my total depravity was the key for me - it all fell into place after that. I realized I had been taught in error and guess what? I didn't shrink back into a self-righteous hyper-Calvinist posture. How could I? I know it is by God's grace FIRST, then my faith SECOND (that HE gives by the way) that I am saved. I plugged into a solid church and my zeal for the lost has never been stronger. ..... A faith unchallenged is a faith unchanged. And we all need more faith. Juli, your post almost brought a tear to my eye. ::clapping:: You said everything just like I would have said it, from not liking the title "Calvinist" to this piece. I can tell you're a good Berean, not just accepting a system but really examining it with scripture. I love these doctrines because they keep me humble!
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