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Post by tomah on Mar 17, 2006 11:42:33 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this a bit recently and I would like to hear your views and ideas on it. Is CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) acceptable to God or not? Is it ok to worship God through Christian Rock, Pop, Rap etc. music? Maybe you think it's ok outside church but not inside church? Is music 'moral' or 'amoral'?
Let me know brethren!
God bless!
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Post by ejuliot on Mar 17, 2006 12:25:58 GMT -5
Here is a video of Keith Daniel preaching. The sermon is actually about the power of prayer but he goes on this HUGE tangent where he talks about modern Christian music and tells some really thought provoking stories. I know that Keith is super conservative but this really made me think.
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Post by tomah on Mar 17, 2006 12:30:07 GMT -5
Where is it sister?
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Post by ejuliot on Mar 17, 2006 12:32:05 GMT -5
Haha oh sorry, I can't get it to download fast enough so this is the page and it is called The Power of Prayer and it is a video.
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Post by ejuliot on Mar 17, 2006 12:34:17 GMT -5
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Post by Josh Parsley on Mar 17, 2006 13:48:05 GMT -5
I've found myself listeneing to less and less of it. This song right here makes me cringe everytime I have ever heard it. I always turn it off when I hear it. Only Unchanging One I looked for love in every single situation For something, someone That would last a lifetime, a love that never dies And I find You know when I wake, when I rise, when I pray, when I curse You And You love me the same You know when I stumble and fall, and You’re there through it all The only unchanging one I looked for faith on the edge of my roof No fear, daddy’s here Still I struggle to trust You with the rest of my life When I could just fly CHORUS I looked for God… You know when I wake, when I rise, when I pray, when I curse You And You love me the same You know when I stumble and fall, and You’re there through it all The only unchanging one (repeat and repeat) You know my inmost being You know my deepest scars You know my darkest secrets You know and You love and You love I'm not so sure that what I underlined it a true statemet. I think songs like this seems to strengthen sinners grip on their sin and give them a false sense of security. This is why when most of us preach we are looked upon as heretics.
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Post by rsmportland on Mar 17, 2006 13:58:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with Josh, sound doctrine and modern Christian music don't really mix well...overall the stuff coming out today is very worldly, attrative young people with catchy hooks and benign lyrics...it's bland...Hootie and the blowfish bland...And as for bringing glory to the Lord, that reamins up for debate as well.
-R
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 17, 2006 14:26:21 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys would consider Keith Green "CCM", but he has some great songs and great lyrics. He was close to people like Winkie Pratney, Leonard Ravehill and the founder of YWAM.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Mar 17, 2006 15:05:20 GMT -5
I don't really think I have a huge problem with the music itself (although some of it I do not like at all), but with the doctrine that the words carry.
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Post by tomah on Mar 17, 2006 20:37:05 GMT -5
EXCELLENT message sister! This man is clearly in touch with God unlike most today. As for his opinion on music, he hits the nail on the head. Music communicates a moral message; either good, or bad. Music is not amoral. Rock, pop and rap music is morally bad and adding 'Christian Lyrics' does not sanctify it! Oh brethren! Leave it for the devil's crowd!
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 17, 2006 20:41:23 GMT -5
I'm curious Armen...what in and of itself makes rock, pop or rap music "morally bad." Did you know that the Wesley brothers used to take bar tunes and put Christian lyrics to them? The people who were getting saved through them knew the tunes, so they thought it best to keep the tunes and change the lyrics...
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Post by tomah on Mar 17, 2006 21:14:54 GMT -5
Just because Wesley did that doesn't make it right. I am very surprised at that though, but it doesn't change the facts.
Music is a form of communication, just like language and art.
Language uses different combinations of letters. No single letter is sinful or moral, but depending on how different letters are formed, makes up the morality of what is being communicated; either good (wholesome, edifying, neccessary words) or bad (blasphemy, swearing, etc).
Art is basically made up of a combination of lines and circles. You take a page and draw a line, it does not have any moral message. But if you combine different lines and circles to form a pornographic picture, it communicates a message of sin.
Music is just the same. No particular note has a moral message. But depending on the combination of notes, a moral message is portrayed; either good or evil. Ever heard any of Handel's Messiah? It communicates a sane, understandable message or good morality. The very same pieces can be altered to sound evil and corrupt and USUALLY the difference is to do with instruments of melody or rhythm. Pieces based on 'melody' (flutes, violins, etc) are usually sane and understandable. Pieces based on 'rhythm' are usually characterised with lust, insanity, etc.
Once rhythm overtakes the melody, you have an unscriptural and satanic style of music (the Bible says to "sing and make MELODY in your heart" not 'rhythm')
CCM is made up of: Bass Guitars = rhythm Sythesizers = rhythm Drums = rhythm Lead guitars = melody
Rhythm drowns the melody and we are moved by 'the beat' not the melody (it's hypnotic).
The joy of N.T. is the 'simplicity' in worshipping God in a melodious manner and not beats and bangs drowning out semi-spiritual lyrics!
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Post by messengermicah on Mar 18, 2006 0:23:26 GMT -5
Here is my two cents: As far as the lyrics of CCM, I think most of it is shallow trash. I would also add that the industry is not much different than secular music. As far as the actual music goes (I certainly do not like Christian rock, rap, etc.), I think it is difficult to make an unbiased judgment. I remember well an example Dr. Michael Brown gave of when he was preaching in India. They heard music there they thought was demonic but actually it was Indian praise and worship music. It is too easy to judge music based on our own preferences. I think we should look at the fruit. I do not see good fruit coming from most CCM music or Christian rock or rap. Maybe there is some but I do not see it. Sometimes during praise and worship services I have to take an Elijah "Holy Run" around the building when the power of God comes on me. I think this is very Biblical. I can't imagine making an Elijah "Holy Run" across the sanctuary with Handel's Messiah playing.
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Post by tomah on Mar 18, 2006 8:58:42 GMT -5
LOL @ "I can't imagine making an Elijah "Holy Run" across the sanctuary with Handel's Messiah playing."
Although I wasn't necessarily speaking about the music being in the sanctuary/house of God, but rather ANYWHERE. I wouldn't appreciate Handel's Messiah in the house of God anyway. I prefer the worship to be 'simple' in nature. I mean the N.T. as far as I can see had NO instruments in public worship and their praise would have been sweeter to God than any about these days. A preacher once asked an important question; "Do you go to church FOR the worship, or TO worship." He went on emphasizing that how we feel about worship doesn't matter at all, it's how God see's it and whether he accepts it or not.
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 18, 2006 10:36:58 GMT -5
Do you go to church FOR the worship, or TO worship." He went on emphasizing that how we feel about worship doesn't matter at all, it's how God see's it and whether he accepts it or not. That's good Armen, this is too often the case in the modern day Church. That's why there is so much a dispute on whether Churches should have "contemporary" or "traditional" Church services. I am often sat back and watched people worship during "comtemporay" worship services and have seen that the people were very much manipulated by the music. They would stand up or raise their hands at the same time in the song or tears would come from their eyes at the same point everytime. The true test of whether a person was truly worshipping GOd or not, whether they were truly in the presence of God as they sang is if it changes them or not. DO they go out the same way they came in? THen they surely WERE NOT in the presence of God. I haven't read of one person in the Bible who was in the presence of God and walked away the same person...
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Post by tomah on Mar 18, 2006 12:28:45 GMT -5
Precisely brother!! I work with a fella who is charismatic (I'm not stereotyping by saying this) and he does all that and goes on about the amazing worship at his services. I went ONCE after being plagued to go for two years and I was saddened by what I observed. He was all into the music (guitars, drums, synthesizers), holding up his hands, closing his eyes, etc. The last time I saw something similar was when I was unsaved and going to nightclubs!! The beat of the music in the club used to put me in a trance even though i never realised it at the time, I can look back and know that that was what it was doing. The reality is that I know holier people than this fella who don't claim to be saved. This is sadly a very common trend in such circles as far as I can see. They live, look and act like the devil and then are 'heavenly' worshippers in church.
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Post by evanschaible on Mar 18, 2006 16:30:42 GMT -5
I think that much of the modern 'Christian' music plays too much from the modern secular music. They use terms that greatly play into the libido and arouse more sexual thought than truthful thought. However, I do like that newer song "He is" that goes through every book of the bible.
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