|
Post by Jeff Fuller on Mar 24, 2006 15:47:50 GMT -5
While learning about calvinism and arminianism I often went to the extremes of each until I spoke with a friend of mine who is working on him doctoral degree. He explained something to me that I had never heard before concerning the spectrum of both teachings.
The end result of going to the extreme with Arminian theology is that God is under the subjection of man's free-will which in essence is antinomianism (lawlessness).
The end result of going to the extreme with Calvinist theology (Hyper Calvinism) is that man can do whatever he pleases because God will do whatever He wills regardless of man's actions which in essence is antinomianism (lawlessness).
Antinomianism strays into universalism.
Is there a way to remain balanced between Calvinism and Arminianism? Yes. Both ultimately believe in both God's sovereignty and mankind's will-power to make choices. Both usually just disagree with how God and mankind interact in the process of salvation and sanctification.
The key really is simply staying away from the heretical extremes of each theology.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Noel on Mar 24, 2006 15:55:43 GMT -5
AMEN X 10 ;D
It's also good to remember that this is an in house debate. When you get on the fringes of each view this gets blurred. Be careful that this elitist spirit doesn't get in. As Jeff has pointed out the debate often focuses on controversial philosophical assumptions by both sides.
Thanks Jeff for this post. When discussing these things on the internet there's a tension because we often imagine that the other person is in the extreme camp. As such we don't always treat each other with the respect that we should. I think it also eliminates any chance for a dialogue. If we start out "defending are theological turf", then there's no room for us to weigh and consider what the other is saying. We must feel at ease enough to be vulnerable not feeling like we are under attack.
May the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Fuller on Mar 24, 2006 16:02:16 GMT -5
On a similar note, there is no denying that scripture talks about men making choices such as, "All who desire to be saved come to me." And within the same context of scripture the statement being made, "Yet none can come unless the Father draws him." (By the way I was paraphrasing in order to use a generic example.)
To those struggling between Arminian and Calvinist theology, those parts of scripture look like they are a contradiction to both theologies. But we have to remember that the chief end of those scriptures is God communicating to believers, "Trust in Me!"
So please, I urge you to examine your theological views in the simple light, "Do these things I believe cause me to trust in the Lord and in the faithfulness of His word?"
The worst product of theological training is if men make God an object to be studied! Whatever you do, do not lose your ability to worship Him, serve Him, and trust in Him!
|
|
|
Post by Manna on Mar 24, 2006 16:10:21 GMT -5
Great Points..!! that is why i am Christocentric ;D.. .In Him we live, and move, and have our being." ACTS 17:28 Blessed Regards..
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Fuller on Mar 24, 2006 16:13:59 GMT -5
I'll someday be famous for being a man who most often quoted other men... thus, I nearly forgot to a dd a quote: Not Corrupting the Word "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ" (2 Corinthians 2:17). When can it be said of us, that we corrupt the Word of God in the present day? What are the rocks and shoals which we ought to shun, if we would not be of the "many" who deal deceitfully with God’s truth? A few suggestions on this head may not be without use. We corrupt the word of God most dangerously when we throw any doubt on the plenary inspiration of any part of the holy Scripture. This is not merely a corrupting the cup, but the whole fountain. This is not merely corrupting the bucket of living water, which we profess to present to our people, but poisoning the whole well. Once wrong on this point, the whole substance of our religion is in danger. It is a flaw in the foundation. It is a worm at the root of our theology. Once allow the worm to gnaw the root, and we must not be surprised if the branches, the leaves, and the fruit, little by little decay. Secondly, we corrupt the Word of God when we make defective statements of doctrine. We do so when we add to the Bible the opinions of the Church, or of the Fathers, as if they were of equal authority. We do so when we take away from the Bible, for the sake of pleasing men; or, from a feeling of false liberty, keep back any statement which seems narrow and harsh or hard. We do so when we try to soften down anything that is taught about eternal punishment or the reality of hell. We do so when we bring forward doctrines in their wrong proportions. We do so when we exhibit an excessive anxiety to fence and guard and qualify such doctrines as justification by faith without the deeds of the law, for fear of the charge of antinomianism; or when we flinch from strong statements about holiness, for fear of being thought legal. We do so, not least, when we shrink from the use of Bible language in giving an account of doctrines. We are apt to keep back such expressions as 'born again,' 'election,' 'adoption,' 'conversion,' 'assurance,' and to use roundabout phraseology, as if we were ashamed of plain Bible words." - J. C. Ryle
|
|
|
Post by Steve Noel on Mar 24, 2006 17:49:21 GMT -5
I posted this in another place but many probably didn't get to see it. This is what John Wesley wrote concerning doctrinal differences between believers: "But some may say, I have mistaken the way myself, although I take it upon myself to teach others. It is probable many will think this, and it is very possible that I have. But I trust, whereinsoever I have mistaken, my mind is open to conviction. I sincerely desire to be better informed. I say to God and man, "What I know not, teach thou me!"
Are you persuaded that you see more clearly than me? It is not unlikely that you may. Then treat me as you would desire to be treated yourself upon a change of circumstances. Point out to me a better way than I have yet known. Show me it is so, by plain proof of Scripture. And if I linger in the path I have accustomed to tread, and am therefore unwilling to leave it, labour with me a little; take me by the hand, and lead me as I am able to bear. But be not displeased if I entreat you not to beat me down in order to quicken my pace: I can go but feebly and slowly at best; then, I should not be able to go at all. May I not request of you, further, not to give me hard names in order to bring me into the right way. Suppose I were ever so much in the wrong, I doubt this would not set me right. Rather, it would make me run so much the farther from you, and so get more and more out of the way
Nay, perhaps, if you are angry, so shall I be too; and then there will be small hopes of finding the truth. If once anger arises, [aute kapnos], (as Homer somewhere expresses it,) this smoke will so dim the eyes of my soul, that I shall be able to see nothing clearly. For God’s sake, if it be possible to avoid it, let us not provoke one another to wrath. Let us not kindle in each other this fire of hell; much less blow it up into a flame. If we could discern truth by that dreadful light, would it not be a loss rather than gain? For, how far is love, even with many wrong opinions, to be preferred before truth itself without love! We may die without the knowledge of many truths, and yet be carried into Abraham’s bosom. But if we die without love, what will knowledge avail? Just as much as it avails the devil and his angels!
The God of love forbid that we should ever make the trial. May he prepare us for the knowledge of all truth, by filling our hearts with all his love, and with all joy and peace in believing!"
|
|
|
Post by ejuliot on Mar 24, 2006 18:01:39 GMT -5
Pro 12:25 Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad
Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!
Pro 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
Thank you. That was refreshing.
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Fuller on Mar 26, 2006 22:08:24 GMT -5
The greatest aim of our theology should be to equip us to point men to Christ, giving God credit for all things righteous and true. But many times instead, we become learned men who point people to abstract ideas and vain pursuits. Greater a stupid man, a humble man, who knows no better than to rely fully on Christ.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Mar 27, 2006 0:23:13 GMT -5
to this one I will look, he who is humble and contrite of spirit, and trembles at My word.
AMEN!
|
|
|
Post by Jules on Mar 28, 2006 19:31:59 GMT -5
Man, this thread is refreshing to a weary soul after reading some hard and judgmental posts this afternoon. I wish I had read it sooner. And, I wish some of the posters who were bordering on "danger ground" would post here...but alas they have not. We do well to learn from men such as Whitefield and Wesley. And we do BETTER to learn from men such as Paul and Peter. But we do BEST when we learn from Christ Himself.
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Fuller on Mar 30, 2006 15:00:58 GMT -5
This Is The One To Whom I Will Look How to Daily Weaken Pride and Cultivate Humility by C.J. Mahaney But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word. Isaiah 66:2 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you. 1 Peter 5:6 1)Begin the day acknowledging your dependence upon God and your confidence in God. “Have you realized that most of your unhappiness in life is due to the fact that you are listening to yourself instead of talking to yourself?” D Martin Lloyd Jones Set the tone for your day by immediately speaking truth to yourself rather than listening to lies from yourself. Let the truth of person and substitutionary work of Jesus Christ for your sins be where you begin your thoughts, meditation and declarations each day. 2) At the outset of each day express specific gratefulness to God. “Thankfulness is a soil in which pride does not easily grow.” John Stott An ungrateful person is a proud person. Throughout the day be an alert and thankful observer of the post it notes provided by God reminding you of common and saving grace. Remember, whatever grace you receive from God is far more than you deserve and whatever pain and suffering you experience is far less than you deserve. 3) Practice the Spiritual Disciplines “When we fail to wait prayerfully for God’s guidance and strength, we are saying, with our actions if not our lips, that we do not need him.” Charles Hummel Practicing the spiritual disciplines is daily declaration and demonstration of my need for God and my dependence upon God. 4) Seize Your Daily Commute as an Opportunity to Mediate on Scripture. Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers: but his delight is in the law of the Lord and on his law he meditates day and night. Psalm 1:1-2 5) Throughout Each Day Cast Your Cares Upon Him. Humble yourselves...casting ALL your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. 1 Peter 5:6-7 The humble are care free. Where there is worry, anxiety, anxiousness there is pride. The root of worry and anxiety is self-sufficiency. God gives grace to those who humble themselves and cast each and every care on him. The effect of this act is the weakening of pride and the experience of peace and joy. 6) At the End of the Day Transfer the Glory to God “When we have done anything praiseworthy, we must hide ourselves under the veil of humility, and transfer the glory of all we have done to God.” Thomas Watson 7) Before Falling Asleep Acknowledge the Purpose of Sleep Prior to falling asleep each night seize this opportunity to acknowledge a purpose of sleep. The need for sleep is a daily reminder that we are creatures not the Creator, that we are not self-sufficient and that only God is self-sufficient. Only God neither slumbers nor sleeps.
|
|