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Post by josh on Mar 29, 2006 23:11:38 GMT -5
This is from the Roman Catholic Catechism of 1994.
"For the Son of man became man so that we might become God." #460
"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." #460
"Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ." #795
Clearly anyone teaching this or holding this doctrine is preaching another gospel, and are heretics.
No way can we say that the church of Rome is a Christian church.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Mar 29, 2006 23:16:05 GMT -5
As a former Catholic that grew up in a Catholic home, the Catholic Church, and took some Catholic classes, I can confidently and boldly proclaim, because of scriptural truth and knowledge of the Catholic church, that the Catholic church is not of God but is a counterfeit of the devil.
Certainly a counterfeit in many ways looks at times in as though it is the real thing, but in reality it is a fraud - a fake!
And that is clearly what the physical Catholic Institutional Church is: a fake that is of the devil.
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Post by elwing96 on Apr 21, 2006 21:09:50 GMT -5
i have no evidence or a defence really. i would just like to say that i disagree. maybe (and i suppose you must thing) i'm wrong, but i always thought that as long as you loved Jesus and accepted his love and sacrifice, you were a Christian. while i think the catholic church has a great need to reform, the people i know who are catholic do love Jesus.
side note: you should watch God or the Girl on A&E, very insightful. it follows 4 catholic men in their 20's as they try to decide if God is calling them to be priests. there's an episode where one gets in a debate with a fundamentalist christian.
again, i always thought we should work together to change the world.
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Post by josh on Apr 21, 2006 22:29:40 GMT -5
But to claim that they are God, surely that is blasphemy. They clearly go against scripture, and prove time and time again that they are not a Christian church, but rather a tool of satan.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 21, 2006 22:36:04 GMT -5
For someone to become a Christian and stay a Catholic is an utter contradiction. All that the Catholic Church teaches and does goes contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only way I could see someone staying as part of the Catholic Church is if they are trying to bring it back to its Biblical roots. On another note, many of the things that are in their Catechism are not taught, not followed, not practiced and not even know about by Catholics. Not saying they should be there, just saying that most don't know about them and aren't following them. I thank God for you Josh! Keep reaching those Hell-bound Catholic down under brother!
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Post by Rodgers on Apr 21, 2006 22:38:35 GMT -5
what about the Eastern Church where will they end up for eternity?
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Post by elwing96 on Apr 21, 2006 23:11:27 GMT -5
as i said, i have no real defence to my stance. i have not read the chatechism and am very unfamiliar with the intricacies of catholic doctrine. it just seems wrong to me to condemn every catholic ever.
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Post by josh on Apr 21, 2006 23:20:20 GMT -5
as i said, i have no real defence to my stance. i have not read the chatechism and am very unfamiliar with the intricacies of catholic doctrine. it just seems wrong to me to condemn every catholic ever. The first major issue Protestants have with Romanists, are the fact they dictate that good works can save you. Now that is clearly unbiblical. So we have a movement, relying on works to save, rather than the grace of God. Rome underminds the scripture, and elevates themselves to a equal if not great level, than God's Word. So clearly we have issues.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 21, 2006 23:23:39 GMT -5
as i said, i have no real defence to my stance. i have not read the chatechism and am very unfamiliar with the intricacies of catholic doctrine. it just seems wrong to me to condemn every catholic ever. I don't know who you are referring to, but if you read my post a little closer, I am NOT condemning every Catholic ever. I am saying that if someone gets saved, born again, they will reject the teaching, theology and doctrine of the Catholic Church. To not is to reveal that one does not understand the Gospel AT ALL. If one doesn't understand the Gospel, then they can't be saved. Someone doesn't get saved by accident...simple as that. The Catholics don't just mess up non-essential stuff, they mess up the essentials. They don't even know how someone gets saved. They have made Mary co-redeemer of the World! The take tradition (teachings of men) over the Bible...meaning they don't believe the Bible is the Word of God...YET, if someone stays in the Catholic Church while rejecting their doctrines for the purpose of reforming it, praying for it and reaching out to the lost in it, then there is no problem.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 22, 2006 14:22:07 GMT -5
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 22, 2006 20:52:22 GMT -5
The RC Church is an institution driven by devils; it was formed by, and has always been maintained by, devils.
The doctrine of the RC Church speaks for itself, so I won't get into the "if's, and's and but's" of their doctrine.
However, I personally know some solid Christians in the RC Church who are Born Again and Holy Ghost Filled, who DO NOT pray to dead saints or believe in ANY other Gospel than the Gospel of Grace alone.
God sometimes calls these people into that demonic institution as He also calls street preachers into the street, to reach the lost.
To set ourselves up as those who judge another's Salvation based on their church attendance is to be in error.
We are to judge fruit, not whether or not a person is saved based on the pew he sits in.
If one attends an RC Church yet claims Salvation by the Blood of Jesus alone and teaches the fundamentals and believes them, then how dare anyone claim that his sitting in an RC pew is wrong.
God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again.
I know them personally.
They do not believe the RC Doctrine.
They deny the RC Doctrine.
They vocalize it.
Yet, no one kicks them out, so they stay and tell of the Salvation offered in Jesus alone.
Many times have I worshipped with these dear precious people.
Amen.
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 22, 2006 20:56:35 GMT -5
The RC Church is an institution driven by devils; it was formed by, and has always been maintained by, devils. The doctrine of the RC Church speaks for itself, so I won't get into the "if's, and's and but's" of their doctrine. However, I personally know some solid Christians in the RC Church who are Born Again and Holy Ghost Filled, who DO NOT pray to dead saints or believe in ANY other Gospel than the Gospel of Grace alone. God sometimes calls these people into that demonic institution as He also calls street preachers into the street, to reach the lost. To set ourselves up as those who judge another's Salvation based on their church attendance is to be in error. We are to judge fruit, not whether or not a person is saved based on the pew he sits in. If one attends an RC Church yet claims Salvation by the Blood of Jesus alone and teaches the fundamentals and believes them, then how dare anyone claim that his sitting in an RC pew is wrong. God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again. I know them personally. They do not believe the RC Doctrine. They deny the RC Doctrine. They vocalize it. Yet, no one kicks them out, so they stay and tell of the Salvation offered in Jesus alone. Many times have I worshipped with these dear precious people. Amen. Would it be okay to be a born again Christian converted from Mormonism or Jehovah's witness's and still stay in those churches?
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 22, 2006 21:17:11 GMT -5
Well sister, the RC Church denies the Fundamentals and yet also holds to the fundamentals, showing itself to be demonically inspired and hypocritical; the mormons and the JW's cannot even be compared as they teach NONE of the cardinal truths of our Faith.
You have set up, in my opinion, your own strawman; I'm not going to bite into that issue, simply because you've asked a Q that can only be answed in your favour, which is quite circular.
Now, mind you, I'm in NB, Canada.... our RC Church may not be like your's.... I don't know.
What I do know is that if a man claims to be Born Again and walks in that Holy Lifestyle, then I refuse to answer your one sided question, as it will serve only to cause me to speak evil of those whom Christ died for.
I can't do that in good conscience.
I also leave the issue at that; I'm not one for much debate....
I was a debater once, to the extreme.
The Lord really dealt with me on the issue.
I no longer have anything to prove.
Call/Imply an RC Pew sitter false; you're choice is your choice....I will not base salvation on a pew, but on Christ's Sacrifice and not on works or any other thing...
If God calls one to stay in such an institution, while they are being vocal they deny the RC Doctrine, who are you and I to call them liars or to question their salvation?
I won't do it and nothing will sway me from loving my Brethren and supporting them in their Faith, if that Faith is Biblical.
I have only Jesus to obey.
Amen
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 22, 2006 21:21:13 GMT -5
It was not meant as a rude question. I was just curious about what you thought. Sorry if it came off the wrong way.
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 22, 2006 21:37:26 GMT -5
No no.... you didn't come off rude at all, sister; its just that when you used the Mormon/JW anaology it blew my mind outta the water because those groups are far from RC's or any other group claiming to be Christian...it;s simply that such an argument cannot be logically presented to allow for several interpretations except for one which favours your own.
Hey, I could be wrong, and if I am, I'll confess and forsake my wrong ideas.
God bless you.
Dan
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Post by repentcanada on Apr 23, 2006 15:06:18 GMT -5
Amen to this post
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 16:17:59 GMT -5
The RC Church is an institution driven by devils; it was formed by, and has always been maintained by, devils. The doctrine of the RC Church speaks for itself, so I won't get into the "if's, and's and but's" of their doctrine. However, I personally know some solid Christians in the RC Church who are Born Again and Holy Ghost Filled, who DO NOT pray to dead saints or believe in ANY other Gospel than the Gospel of Grace alone. God sometimes calls these people into that demonic institution as He also calls street preachers into the street, to reach the lost. To set ourselves up as those who judge another's Salvation based on their church attendance is to be in error. We are to judge fruit, not whether or not a person is saved based on the pew he sits in. If one attends an RC Church yet claims Salvation by the Blood of Jesus alone and teaches the fundamentals and believes them, then how dare anyone claim that his sitting in an RC pew is wrong. God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again. I know them personally. They do not believe the RC Doctrine. They deny the RC Doctrine. They vocalize it. Yet, no one kicks them out, so they stay and tell of the Salvation offered in Jesus alone. Many times have I worshipped with these dear precious people. Amen. Brother, By your own statements don't you also make judgments? In love I speak this out. YOU SAID "To set ourselves up as those who judge another's Salvation based on their church attendance is to be in error." There are many times Paul spoke to believers to come out from them, from the false places of worship such as synagogues. 1 Cor 5:12,13; 3-5 and 1 Cor 6:1-6 We are to judge our own but not the world. If they are "called out", then they would also be called out of a wicked system to a place where they could have proper fellowship with brothers and sisters and teaching and preaching etc. Not the same as street preachers, they are spreading the light in a dark world they are not there fellowshipping. Street preachers I'll bet when they are afforded the time they wouldn't go sit in a Kingdom Hall service they would find a Spirit filled worship service. Amen? Please give scripture and verse for this statement. YOU SAID "God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again."
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 16:26:18 GMT -5
No no.... you didn't come off rude at all, sister; its just that when you used the Mormon/JW anaology it blew my mind outta the water because those groups are far from RC's or any other group claiming to be Christian...it;s simply that such an argument cannot be logically presented to allow for several interpretations except for one which favours your own. Hey, I could be wrong, and if I am, I'll confess and forsake my wrong ideas. God bless you. Dan There is more to it than that man. Please read. www.evangelicaloutreach.org/catholicmormon.htm
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 23, 2006 16:48:01 GMT -5
I think this is the key. If they are staying the the RC "Church" for any other reason then this, then I would say there must be something wrong!
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 16:52:18 GMT -5
Amen, RevK.... My sentiments also
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 16:55:52 GMT -5
DARC, evangelical outreach is by Dan Corner...
I don't mind Arminians, but I personally see Dan Corner as presenting a false way of Salvation; thus, Dan Corner is, in my Biblical estimation, no better than the ones he himself condemns.
I have EXTENSIVELY studied the writings, theology and words of Dan Corner.
I am apprehensive in calling Dan Corner or anyone with his line of theology a Brother in the Faith, as none of us would call a JW or Mormon a brother.
I see Dan Corner as the same; a cultist presenting a works Gospel.
Corner is NOT a true blue Arminian; he's a psuedo-Arminian, not teaching the gospel we are commanded to believe.
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 17:04:50 GMT -5
DARC said: Please give scripture and verse for this statement. YOU SAID "God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again."
here''s the Scripture: Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Now, go read the entirety of the chapter, in the hopes of receiving the full contextual meaning.
It becomes quite clear that God has a Faithful Remnant among the seat of satan; simply meaning that the theology of being IN the world and not OF the world stands true.
Now, DARC, I see (and could be incorrect) a difference in your disagreements than that of REVk's... in comparison, I'm going to respectfully agree with Rev's partial disagreement and with your's I'll no longer reply, as I simply do not sense the moving of the Spirit leading me to reply to your posts; possibly I am wrong in replying NOW; I don't know.
(EDIT)
(EDIT)
However, I won;'t reply to your posts further, as I don't want to engage you in conversation.
Blessings in Jesus
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 17:12:04 GMT -5
PS:
Sometimes, the Lord simply asks us/prompts us/leads us to walk with some and yet not others.
Why?
I have no idea.
I simply believe the Lord is able to show us who to maintain a friendship/fellowship with and who not to.
Amen.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 17:29:44 GMT -5
DARC, evangelical outreach is by Dan Corner... I don't mind Arminians, but I personally see Dan Corner as presenting a false way of Salvation; thus, Dan Corner is, in my Biblical estimation, no better than the ones he himself condemns. I have EXTENSIVELY studied the writings, theology and words of Dan Corner. I am apprehensive in calling Dan Corner or anyone with his line of theology a Brother in the Faith, as none of us would call a JW or Mormon a brother. I see Dan Corner as the same; a cultist presenting a works Gospel. Corner is NOT a true blue Arminian; he's a psuedo-Arminian, not teaching the gospel we are commanded to believe. My friend, I did not ask you to judge. Brother Dan has understanding that is truly blessed by the Lord Jesus Himself. You contradict your own statements about not judging. Incredible!
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 17:35:34 GMT -5
DARC said: Please give scripture and verse for this statement. YOU SAID "God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again." here''s the Scripture: Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. Now, go read the entirety of the chapter, in the hopes of receiving the full contextual meaning. It becomes quite clear that God has a Faithful Remnant among the seat of satan; simply meaning that the theology of being IN the world and not OF the world stands true. Now, DARC, I see (and could be incorrect) a difference in your disagreements than that of REVk's... in comparison, I'm going to respectfully agree with Rev's partial disagreement and with your's I'll no longer reply, as I simply do not sense the moving of the Spirit leading me to reply to your posts; possibly I am wrong in replying NOW; I don't know. (EDIT) (EDIT) However, I won;'t reply to your posts further, as I don't want to engage you in conversation. Blessings in Jesus amazing! truly. no division here I forgive thee, because I've been forgiven. I do not hold this against you. I love you and I hope the Lord opens your eyes and reveals nothing but absolute truth to you. All things in love....
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 18:10:21 GMT -5
Dan Corner is a false prophet who teaches a gospel of "do" rather than "it has been done/it is finished".
That said, and because Dan Corner has obviously deceived some Saved Arminians, I'll be posting in a week or so, after careful consideration, how to approach this man's false gospel.
Stay tuned; and this will not be about Calvinist/Arminian debate; it will be based on Corner and his false gospel.
This will not be meant for DARC or anyone in particular; it will be for the purity of the Body.
Corner is false, heretical and I'll show it with his own words and doctrines, all kept in context and in exegetical Biblically correct standing.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 18:40:21 GMT -5
DARC said: Please give scripture and verse for this statement. YOU SAID "God calls men to sit in the pews of devils; thus, devils tremble at the True Word being declared by these RC pew sitters who in fact are Born Again." here''s the Scripture: Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. Jesus has the sharp two-edged sword. He also knew where Satan’s throne was, that is, right in that same location where there was a Christian congregation. To reverse this would be to try and say it doesn't matter where we fellowship. We see examples where in the early church they avoided certain places and people. They did as Acts 2:42-47 says. They all gathered together in the temple courts. They were not in the temple itself. For the life of me I wouldn't know why anyone would stay where we know that false teaching and false doctrine and a false salvation message still is being preached. That would be like telling a sexually immoral person that after they repent and get saved they don't need to stop going to the strip joints or brothels. We need to encourage each other. When we are called out though, we are called out of the old religious systems, false teachings, etc. for a purpose of protection. We can be deceived. We don't see any of the sheep going off into places where their Master isn't. (John 10). It is the devil that invades the church. (Matt. 13:24-30) We need to evangelize the Catholics, Mormons and J.Ws. in the work place, on the street etc. Someone who is truly regenerated will not desire to stay in a place where the workings of Devil prevail as the only teaching/doctrine. They will want to run away from the idolatry! They will abhore this and desire to go where the Spirit of the Lord is!
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 18:59:28 GMT -5
Lord, You are, more precious than silver....
Lord, You are, more costly than gold.
Lord, You are, more beautiful than diamonds...
And nothing I desire, compares with You.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Apr 23, 2006 20:15:19 GMT -5
Dan Corner is a false prophet who teaches a gospel of "do" rather than "it has been done/it is finished". That said, and because Dan Corner has obviously deceived some Saved Arminians, I'll be posting in a week or so, after careful consideration, how to approach this man's false gospel. Stay tuned; and this will not be about Calvinist/Arminian debate; it will be based on Corner and his false gospel. This will not be meant for DARC or anyone in particular; it will be for the purity of the Body. Corner is false, heretical and I'll show it with his own words and doctrines, all kept in context and in exegetical Biblically correct standing. Even though it won't be meant for me I still welcome the challenge! Praise the Name of Jesus my all in all! Everyone that speaks against a teacher or ministry must give Biblical reasons. You must show from scripture why the teacher is off base or wrong. Your opinions don't mean anything. Show the contradiction by Scripture please. It bothers me that this is continuing to happen when Jesse and Miles and Jeff were just slandered!!!!! How quickly we forget. It is OK to disagree with someone, but to call someone a heretic or make accusations without Biblical backup is slander! I implore everyone to be very careful with this!!!(1Cor 6:9-10) To those that have slandered brother Dan Corner I forgive you.
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Post by biblethumper on Apr 23, 2006 21:24:45 GMT -5
Random Posts section states the facts on Corner and his annoying traits of bothering godly people... he's been found to be a liar and a fraud; this I myself will show within a week or so Till then ppl, check out the Corner articles in the Random Posts Thread
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