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Post by evanschaible on May 14, 2006 9:31:56 GMT -5
God has been opening up to me a very interesting point of theology. It is still very much experimental but here is what I have thus far.
I am thinking that we do, in one condition have eternal security. But that security is itself conditional. When we abide in Christ we will never fall, this is plainly taught in scripture. However that abiding relationship has to be maintained by the individual that is on the human side of the convenant.
My conclusion is that if we abide in Christ we are eternally secure, but if w fail to cultivate and maintain that abiding realtionship we are not eternally secure.
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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Post by biblethumper on May 14, 2006 11:00:58 GMT -5
Very interesting, Evan! Looking forward to more here.....
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Post by evanschaible on May 17, 2006 13:59:59 GMT -5
Let me articulate a little more what exactly I mean by conditional eternal security. I don't even know if the two terms can be congruent, but for some reason I have always had a conviction that they can be harmonized.
Both aspects of the believer’s security are most definitely outlined in scripture. I know full well that this will get me into trouble with my Arminian brethren, but believe it or not, I am still Arminian. I also know full well that this will get me into trouble with my Calvinist brethren, but believe it or not, I am still not a Calvinist. So, here we go.
“The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand” (Psalm 34:23-24).
This scripture advocates eternal security, but in the context of the entire Bible it cannot be taken to mean what our feeble minds think it means.
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.” (John 10:27-29)
This is the classic Calvinist proof text for eternal security. But let us look at the context of Jesus words. Notice these phrases, “they follow me”, “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand”, “No man is able to pluck them out of my hand”. I think Jesus put an emphasis on no man, or outside force, being able to do this for a reason.
Maybe no man can pluck us out of the saviour’s hand, but can we leave his hand?
“And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.” (Jeremiah 32:40)
I like this verse. It poses the possibility of people turning away but also puts forward the solution. In this day there are those “that fear not God” who were once believers but now are apostates. The fear of the lord makes men depart from iniquity, it is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge, and in this case, is the Lords solution to apostasy.
So with that in mind let us now move on to the next scripture in my mind.
“Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:5)
Notice we are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH. Our faith in the power of God, or rather God himself, is what enables the power of God to keep us to the end. Notice these two verses in the Gospel according to Matthew.
“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.” (10:22)
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (24:13)
This is where the controversy will start. Notice Jesus mandate of enduring to the end. This does indeed clearly teach our conditional security, but we cannot endure to the end apart from the power of God.
Jesus plainly teaches in the fifteenth chapter of John that “apart from me [Jesus] ye can do nothing.” Which would naturally include our persevering to the end. This is where it gets hairy for me, which is why I post here. Observe.
“For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil. 1:5-6)
Now it would only make sense that in order for God to work in us we would have to yield ourselves to Him. God will not force you into obedience. Applied here it would concur with the teaching of John 15 (the branch and the vine), that we have to abide in the Lord Jesus and permit him to keep us.
Two of my very favorite scriptures now come into play.
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Heb. 12:1,2)
The very fact that Jesus is at the right hand of god, making intercession for us, is the consolation we have for our perseverance to the end. Notice the emphasis on “looking unto Jesus”, next to the command, “abide in me” proves that if we do surrender our all to God, keep ourselves in that relationship of obedience and look unto Jesus he will ensure our strength when we are about to fall.
But if we fail to rely on Jesus, and we try it on our own, and look away to things beneath, we can indeed fall away from the faith. We can fall unto perdition. So I guess the paradox is this, conditional eternal security. Jesus said, “apart from me ye can do nothing” the branch that abides not in Jesus will be cast forth into the fire. So when we fail to live abiding in Him we can kiss our salvation good bye.
Like I said, this is experimental. I have not, and probably will never get the loose ends tied up as this doctrine just goes deeper and deeper. I could probably right a thousand pages on it.
To simplify my statement down to the bare bones I could say, “He that abides in the Jesus will never fall, but he that does not abide in Jesus can and most likely will fall.” Like I said this doctrine just goes deeper and deeper, but that is what I love about experimental theology. I also hopefully will add to this some deeper points from John 15.
Naturally we could now debate entire and partial sanctification, as your presupposition has to be entire sanctification to even understand what I mean. We could debate the possibility of living in unbroken fellowship with God, which I also believe is possible, for this too plays a large part in this point of theology.
But again to simplify my point here again is my statement; “He that abides in Jesus will never fall, but he that does not abide in Jesus can and most likely will fall.”
Brother Dan, any input?
Darc, for once I welcome YOUR comments, not Corners.
Any thoughts, refutes, additions, please interject.
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Post by evanschaible on May 19, 2006 12:50:56 GMT -5
I guess I am the only one interested in this,....Oh well.
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 12:54:13 GMT -5
Conditional Eternal Security... nice way of putting it.
I also have to concede that I agree
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 12:56:06 GMT -5
As for unbroken fellowship with God, I can state that i know of one man on a PERSONAL level who has walked in unbroken fellowship with God for almost 12 years
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Post by evanschaible on May 20, 2006 12:16:11 GMT -5
I wrote an article about that very thing. It is in the article section and is a chapter in the book I am trying to complete. It is called abiding.
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