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Post by Josh Parsley on May 17, 2006 8:58:44 GMT -5
I may just be getting frustrated but, it seems that not everyone here is honestly wanting to understand, but only to prove THEIR point. This is a forum. Forum 1. a)The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business. b)A public meeting place for open discussion. c)A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program. 2.A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
A forum is a place where you can learn. I think their are some that are not here to learn. Some only want to teach, but yet are not acting as a teacher should. Any teacher that is worth his salt is not proud or arrogant, but honestly wants to share. Is that how we are? I'm no old man, quite young to be honest, but I've found out that when discussing doctrine the best way is to understand it first, then show why you disagree. It is hard to understand someone else's opinion if that person is proud and just shooting off flippant answers. What is your honest purpose for being here? Do you feel like you are some Prophet of the Hour or something? Or are you wanting to understand and share? This isn't directed towards any one person, if it was I would mention your name.
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Post by Kerrigan on May 17, 2006 9:06:10 GMT -5
Amen Josh...good post!
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Post by biblethumper on May 17, 2006 11:18:17 GMT -5
Josh, some who are here ARE here to flippantly shoot off, but not all of them would claim to be the "Prophet of the Hour" because some of them don't believe Prophets are for today (If the shoe fits, wear it)
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Post by evanschaible on May 17, 2006 13:47:31 GMT -5
I think we found our culprit ;D ;D ^^^^^
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Post by biblethumper on May 17, 2006 15:28:07 GMT -5
hahahaha... culprit this brother: NEENER (tongue in cheek...smiling at you Evan)
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on May 18, 2006 1:08:24 GMT -5
Let's remember what the bible states:
'Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.' (Jude 1:3)
I think things are slowly getting out of hand with the Tongues, Spiritual Gifts and KJV threads. At the end of the day we shouldn't be name calling or allowing our emotions to get the better of us. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we are going to have different opinions on the above topics. We can discuss them in a loving way but I think it can be difficult sometimes on a MB because things can get misinterpreted, quotes may come across the wrong way etc. (I'm not against discussing different doctrines on a MB)
Let us remember that we are all going to have to give an account on the day of judgement on what we have done and not what anyone else has done.
I enjoy learning about both sides of the various topics but at the end of the day remember that only ONE side is correct, both can't be right.
'...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.' (Acts 17:11)
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2006 9:47:08 GMT -5
If you would all just shutup and stop your bickering! Just believe everything I say and we'll all get along! Give peace a chance and tolerate all things... hummmmmmmmmm hummmmmmmmm hummmmmmm (meditating). Now don't you feel better? ****************** EDIT: Btw, this is a post that fits this thread... give a read
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Post by biblethumper on May 18, 2006 9:49:00 GMT -5
Yes, much better now
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Post by Doc H on May 18, 2006 18:37:49 GMT -5
I am glad for the humour. It maketh the heart merry!
Just a personal message from me.
I just wanted to point out that the thread on Tongues/Spiritual gifts and the KJ Bible was NOT started by the cessationists or KVO believers.
I simply responded to the salvos that were directed at the beliefs that I hold dear to my heart. I apologise if my messages have been offensive, this was never my intent, but when you are passionate about something, things can easily get out of hand.
Let me end by saying that if you believe and preach that one can only be saved by repentance from sin and belief in grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Then, with regard to the other issues we must simply agree to disagree in a spirit of love.
In Christ, DocH
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Post by messengermicah on May 18, 2006 22:55:00 GMT -5
Doc H,
The thread on tongues was started by Josh Williamson. He claims he is not a cessationist but was debating as if he is one. He seemed to be coming against tongues and the gifts like yourself.
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Post by josh on May 19, 2006 0:43:03 GMT -5
Doc H, The thread on tongues was started by Josh Williamson. He claims he is not a cessationist but was debating as if he is one. He seemed to be coming against tongues and the gifts like yourself. I am against the misuse of tongues. I have come out of the pentecostal movement for the very reason that the giftings are abused, and many who claim to have the giftings don't.
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 7:20:02 GMT -5
Amen, Josj. I also have removed myself from the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement as it is known TODAY.
(I am far from a Cessationist also)
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Post by tonyholland on May 19, 2006 9:03:08 GMT -5
Doc H, The thread on tongues was started by Josh Williamson. He claims he is not a cessationist but was debating as if he is one. He seemed to be coming against tongues and the gifts like yourself. I am against the misuse of tongues. I have come out of the pentecostal movement for the very reason that the giftings are abused, and many who claim to have the giftings don't. Honestly, I am a bit confused and still studying the Word for answers concerning the spiritual gift of speaking in tounges. I am undecided at this point, but I completley agree with what Josh said here. I have a very close friend that left a major charismatic denomination because one of the "requirements" for leadership positions in the Church is being baptized in the Holy Spirit. That baptism is shown to be true ONLY by speaking in tounges. My friend is a true man of God, and he spent much time in prayer asking for this gift to no avail. He went to his Church leadership about this and was assigned a person to "help" him. His helper told him that sometimes you have to PRACTICE speaking in tounges before you are able to do it.....practice a gift given by God? I don't think so! I think that the modern charismatic movement (not all Churches by any means) often unwittingly encourages their congregation to fake these gifts in a effort to be accepted by the Church. Very sad.
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Post by Kerrigan on May 19, 2006 9:42:11 GMT -5
I had a similar experience. The guy told me that random syllables should just start coming to my head and if they didn't that I should just try to start speaking them and maybe they would come to me. It is very sad...
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 10:24:41 GMT -5
In my younger days I took to Wesleyans to a "prophet".... he then took them into his car and got them to repeat aba caba....then he said "Say it fast and let it flow".
haha
What a joke.
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 11:19:40 GMT -5
I agree with Josh too condemning much of the modern practices of charismatic churches and the so called gifts (tongues included).
He may not be a cessationist however if you go back and read his posts he was debating the issue from the standpoint of a cessationist.
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Post by josh on May 19, 2006 11:39:33 GMT -5
Reason I debated from the cessationlist view point since nearly all penty's I come across base on experiance and not scripture.
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 11:45:23 GMT -5
I take it you have never come across the Calvary Chapel movement, then? They are charismaticand base their experiences on the Word...
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Post by evanschaible on May 19, 2006 12:19:45 GMT -5
What about the Vineyard Movement; I have not heard anything bad or good. It is a holiness movement as far as I can tell, but with Charismatic tendencies.
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 12:32:10 GMT -5
The Vineyard Movement is akin to the Toronto Blessing, complete with dog barkers and howling wolf sounds...
John Wimber, before he passed on, repented of coming against the Toronto Movement.
Wimber founded the Vinyeyard.
I have attended Vineyard meetings...let's just say I don't go for people having epileptic fits and calling it the Holy Spirit.
PS: Evan...you're hard to get ahold of!
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 13:52:12 GMT -5
I have met MANY people from both Vineyard and Calvary churches who preach easy believism and live worldy, compromised, sinful lives. I am sure there are exceptions but I am not too impressed with either of them.
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Post by ejuliot on May 19, 2006 14:28:27 GMT -5
I have met MANY people from both Vineyard and Calvary churches who preach easy believism and live worldy, compromised, sinful lives. I am sure there are exceptions but I am not too impressed with either of them. I have grown up in Calvary Chapel and from my experience most of the Calvarys preach a modern gospel save a few. I have never seen anyone speaking tongues or prophesy in a Calvary Chapel, the attitude seems to be "we believe in it, don't do it in church, keep it at home." Again this is just from my experience. As for the vineyard, I have never been to vineyard service but I ran into a vineyard pastor who was a female with a butch hair cut. I asked her if she preached the gospel and she said that she does all the time. She said that when you smile you are preaching the gospel...She invited me to her church but I didn't go.
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Post by biblethumper on May 19, 2006 14:31:37 GMT -5
hahahah.... I was invited to a Vineyard Conference and woah.... the power of the devil was what was manifested.
It was demonic.
I have some calvary chapel friends in top seated levels with calvary.... I know from personal association that they OFFICIAL doctrine is holiness and Spirit filled.
Whether or not they practice is their choice; their denomination is a breath of fresh air for conservative charismatics and pentecostals
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Post by ejuliot on May 19, 2006 14:40:31 GMT -5
hahahah.... I was invited to a Vineyard Conference and woah.... the power of the devil was what was manifested. It was demonic. I have some calvary chapel friends in top seated levels with calvary.... I know from personal association that they OFFICIAL doctrine is holiness and Spirit filled. Whether or not they practice is their choice; their denomination is a breath of fresh air for conservative charismatics and pentecostals I know that there are some really good Calvarys but I haven't been to those ones. All the ones I have been to are like most churches, worldly.
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Post by Kerrigan on May 19, 2006 14:53:48 GMT -5
I really don't think we can narrow anything down to one or two certain denominations. ALL denominations, without exception (unless a new one just started recently), have both worldly and Godly local congregations. I have been to two Calvary Chapel's here in North Carolina and found them to be preaching the Word Of God as it is and doing so expositionally.
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Post by messengermicah on May 19, 2006 14:58:08 GMT -5
You are right but I don't think we are singling out those two, it is just that they were brought up.
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Post by Kerrigan on May 19, 2006 15:01:27 GMT -5
You are right but I don't think we are singling out those two, it is just that they were brought up. I understand...just adding my two cents for whatever it's worth...
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