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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2006 14:31:27 GMT -5
Is there a difference between repentance and sanctification? And if so, what is it?
It seems that when I preach "complete repentance" people think I'm preaching "entire sanctification".
Is there a difference between saying:
"Turn from your sin"
and
"Stop your sinning"
?????
I think repentance has to do with seperating (or turning) from sin
While sanctification has to do with dedicating EVERY aspect of yourself to God.
Thoughts???
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Post by jackjackson on Aug 22, 2006 14:51:21 GMT -5
God commands us to repent, which is in fact a call to turn from your sins. We as Christians should all then pray that we be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Jesus lived a sinless life, that is what every Christian should seek for and work towards.
You then are correct. The acts are not seperate but are dependant on both. Some say they are working on giving up their sins as they grow in the Lord. That is crazy if you ask me.
There is a popular tract used that is calle "Steps to Peace With God". I don't see this a negociated cease fire, where we give our demands, and He gives His and we negociate a peace treaty. This is not a steps process (like a 12 step process) but is supposed to be an "all out surrender" in godly sorrow and repentance towards God.
Without a surrender, there is no real humbleness, and Jesus says He only gives grace to the humble, and resists the proud. What is more prideful that to want to hold on to your sins, and still want Him to have died for your sins?
Jack Jackson
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 15:05:22 GMT -5
Jesse... if they accuse you of such you would have to wonder how they themselves came to know the Lord.
If they are one and the same, which they are, and they accuse you of preaching sanctification rather than the GOSPEL....I wonder which "gospel" they received?
Possibly they are confused if not lost?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2006 15:58:41 GMT -5
So what is a good definition of repentance and a good definition of sanctification? Something like: REPENTANCE - Turning away from all sin SANCTIFICATION - Seperating yourself entirely, and dedicating yourself entirely, to the purposes of God ?
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 16:11:15 GMT -5
haha it's the same thing; repentance brings sanctification AT THE SAME MOMENT
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Post by oap001 on Aug 22, 2006 16:25:17 GMT -5
So what is a good definition of repentance and a good definition of sanctification? Something like: REPENTANCE - Turning away from all sin SANCTIFICATION - Seperating yourself entirely, and dedicating yourself entirely, to the purposes of God ? That is a good definition Jesse. I believe sanctification takes a lifetime. Only to be complete when we are in the presence of God.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 16:29:10 GMT -5
So what is a good definition of repentance and a good definition of sanctification? Something like: REPENTANCE - Turning away from all sin SANCTIFICATION - Seperating yourself entirely, and dedicating yourself entirely, to the purposes of God ? That is a good definition Jesse. I believe sanctification takes a lifetime. Only to be complete when we are in the presence of God. Could you show from the Word where it takes a lifetime, brother?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2006 16:52:39 GMT -5
This was a post I wrote a long time ago:
If we say we are "being sanctified" we would also have to say we are "being justified". But it's not biblical. Rather we ARE sanctified and we ARE justified. Notice how the bible says we "are sanctified" and not we "are being sanctified". Only will some modern translations add the word "being" in italics in order to fit their theology, but italics means it's not in the original.
Ac 20:32 - And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Ac 26:18 - To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
1Co 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
(Notice in this verse it says "are sanctified" and "are justified". If we are going to say "are being sanctified" we would also have to say "are being justified")
Heb 2:11 - For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 10:10 - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Jude 1:1 - Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
A Christian is not being set free from sin. No, a Christian is set "free from sin". (Romans 6:18, 20, 22; 8:2)
If the bible says that we ARE sactified, then doesn't that men a true Christian is not only completely repented from sin, but also is entirely dedicated to the purposes of God?
Whatever our definition of sanctification is, the bible says Christians ARE sanctified.
Thomas Kempis said, "I'd rather feel contrition then to know the definition of it."
Likewise with sanctification. "I'd rather be sanctified then to know the definition of it."
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 16:57:55 GMT -5
Thats' a Blog Post now YEAH! PREACH IT!
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Post by oap001 on Aug 22, 2006 17:21:15 GMT -5
Brother Jesse and Brother Dan, I use nothing but the King JAmes. I will say this much, I think that maybe God wrote the Bible the way he did so we would be able to challenge one and other. To ensure that we are in the faith. There is a danger of over compensation in both doctrines. We do say almost the same thing...but we need to be challeneged right. I'll look at some verses....but to be honnest since we debated things and I was able to say what I wanted and you all said what you wanted. I have some things to chew on. But basically, if you follow me, I am even more grounded in my salvation, as I's sure you guys are as well.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 17:33:32 GMT -5
Brother Jesse and Brother Dan, I use nothing but the King JAmes. I will say this much, I think that maybe God wrote the Bible the way he did so we would be able to challenge one and other. To ensure that we are in the faith. There is a danger of over compensation in both doctrines. We do say almost the same thing...but we need to be challeneged right. I'll look at some verses....but to be honnest since we debated things and I was able to say what I wanted and you all said what you wanted. I have some things to chew on. But basically, if you follow me, I am even more grounded in my salvation, as I's sure you guys are as well. To be sure, I actaully believe MANY Believers (such as myself until I spoke with Jesse personally) believe the instant sanctification Teaching... we simply don't know the ins and outs.... As side note, I'm a KJO also
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2006 17:35:36 GMT -5
King James Only???
I'm greek and hebrew only!!
lol j/k
I too think KJ is nearest to the best in our English translations.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 17:45:10 GMT -5
King James Only??? I'm greek and hebrew only!! lol j/k I too think KJ is nearest to the best in our English translations. hehehe smarty
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 22, 2006 19:00:46 GMT -5
From what I understand the best way to describe sanctification is like slicing out a peice of the cake and placing it on a whole different plate. Which, I believe, happens at conversion. When most people think of sanctification they are thinking about maturity in Christ. I am not sure that is Biblical. I think when we become more like Christ we are going from Glory to Glory. I've heard some use the term glorification- I like it! And yes, that will not come complete untill we have a glorified body. It is also a life long process- going from glory to glory. It should never stop.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
I don't think it took the Lord very long to sanctify the seventh day, do you?
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 22, 2006 19:05:45 GMT -5
What does everyone think of this statement: Just because we are sanctified doesn't mean we are glorified.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 22, 2006 19:23:30 GMT -5
AMEN! Me too! No, actually I am NASBO/NIVO ;D
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 19:50:06 GMT -5
What does everyone think of this statement: Just because we are sanctified doesn't mean we are glorified. Correct; Glorification comes at the resurrection and/or rapture.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 22, 2006 19:50:48 GMT -5
AMEN! Me too! No, actually I am NASBO/NIVO ;D It's ok Revk... there's still hope
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Post by Doc H on Aug 22, 2006 21:04:23 GMT -5
As side note, I'm a KJO alsoPraise God for your conversion ;D Now what about you Rev K?
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 22, 2006 21:06:40 GMT -5
As side note, I'm a KJO alsoPraise God for your conversion ;D Now what about you Rev K? You'll NEVER convert me! I will read in tongues (Greek and Hebrew) the rest of my life! Maybe one day I will preach in them too! ;D
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Post by Doc H on Aug 22, 2006 21:10:25 GMT -5
I'm greek and hebrew only!!
lol j/k
I too think KJ is nearest to the best in our English translations.C'mon guys just because AV1611 has left the boards don't try to tempt me into another debate on the KJV. Jesse, I look forward to reading your next few posts in Greek and Hebrew. What about Syriak and Aramaic as well.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 22, 2006 21:12:06 GMT -5
Rev K, AMEN! Me too! No, actually I am NASBO/NIVORepent before it's too late
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Post by Doc H on Aug 22, 2006 21:15:03 GMT -5
I will read in tongues (Greek and Hebrew) the rest of my life!I am glad that you agree with me that 'tongues' are known earthly langauges. Don't worry I am not trying to start another debate on tongues....or am I?
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 22:56:12 GMT -5
I believe repentance is forsaking all sin and commiting ourselves to Jesus Christ for His holy purposes. This is about the same thing as sanctification in one sense. Sanctification in one sense is to consecrate ourselves unto God's holy purposes and for His glory and use.
As we grow in our relationship with Jesus Christ and see Him more clearly, we are able to make further consecration of ourselves to Him because we begin to see Him more clearly. In this sense, sanctification is progressive. Repentance would also be progressive in this sense.
I believe our justification is dependent upon our sanctification. In other words, we are only in a position of being just before God as long as we are consecrated and set apart for His holy purposes.
And such were some of you; but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Santification and then justification. Not we become justified and then sanctified.
I am sure this will probably get me into trouble.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 22, 2006 23:09:58 GMT -5
I definitely agree with you here. I have to disagree with the sanctification coming before justification though. But, it really doesn't matter to me which one anyone thinks comes first. Without the presence of both, the person is not saved!
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 22, 2006 23:14:57 GMT -5
What I mean is if the person does not make the decision to repent from all sin and submit themselves to Jesus Christ (sanctification), they are not going to be justified.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 22, 2006 23:15:56 GMT -5
Amen...I agree!
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 23, 2006 12:18:03 GMT -5
In regards to the definitions of the words, here is my take (I posted something similar to this on the Biblical Evangelism School board):
Repentance: Stop Sinning! I have found that the vast majority of people think that repentance is nothing more than just feeling bad about sin. So I have resorted to "market language" and simply exhort them to stop sinning.
Sanctification: "Come out from them, and be ye seperate". In Exodus 33 the sign that the Hebrews were God's people were two fold, 1) God's presence would go with them, and 2) They would be seperate from the people of the world. Holiness, and sanctification are often times presented as the same, and I think that they are practically the same.
However, regarding entire sanctification, I do beleive that this is a scriptural doctrine, regardless of peoples experience. Often people disregard doctrines because they havent met that standard or experienced it. But despite what anyone one says, it is God's will to sanctify us "wholly", "spirit soul and body" that we may be totally and utterly sperated unto Him for His purposes and for His will. this is also sometimes termed the "divine life" or the "deeper life".
Regarding glorification, Dan, lets look at Romans 8:30, "glorified" The tense of this word would suggest it has happened. This is, of course, considered heresy by most people. But in context of scripture, we can be "set in heavenly places with Christ Jesus" in this life. I really havent studied it much, but I beleive scripture will prove that (Ephesians). It must be noted I am speaking in a spiritual sense, not a carnal sense.
Evan
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 23, 2006 12:23:13 GMT -5
Interesting.....
Can you post more brother Evan?
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 23, 2006 12:31:12 GMT -5
Interesting..... Can you post more brother Evan? Not really right now, I would have to really pray over this as to not say something that I would regret. This is definately a TOUCHY doctrine. I will say however, that I am not a mystic.
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