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Post by oap001 on Aug 23, 2006 13:41:21 GMT -5
What I mean is if the person does not make the decision to repent from all sin and submit themselves to Jesus Christ (sanctification), they are not going to be justified. I agree with this in the nominal sense. But also there are sins that are revealed by the Holy Spirit, that may take time in some people. I've heard of a person who was a homosexual and got saved. Repenting and not fully understanding what was sin and what was not. Shortly after getting saved God revealed to this person that homosexuality was sin and now they have left the lifestyle. So it's a matter of a person's will being broken where they agree (repent) and turn from sin and cling to Christ.
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Post by Doc H on Aug 23, 2006 18:37:58 GMT -5
But also there are sins that are revealed by the Holy Spirit, that may take time in some people.
Exactly right. The Holy spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement.
If that person understands that something is sin and refuses or struggles to repent then God will chastise them just like an earthly Father will chastise their children until they give that sin up, but POSITIONALLY they are still his children.
If no chastisement is forthcoming or if the person continues in that sin then I believe they are not saved.
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 22:43:37 GMT -5
Doc H,
If the person refuses or struggles in sin then that person has not repented and is not saved.
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 23, 2006 23:23:35 GMT -5
Doc H, If the person refuses or struggles in sin then that person has not repented and is not saved. I would change that a bit. If they struggle, then it is possible that they are saved. If they refuse blatantly and practice sin, then they are NOT Born Again (1 John 3:9).
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Post by messengermicah on Aug 23, 2006 23:31:58 GMT -5
Well, if a person is constantly struggling and sinning, then they have not repented and are not saved.
It is impossible for a person to have repented and keep on sinning at the same time.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 23, 2006 23:34:28 GMT -5
A Christian "struggles" with temptation.
But if he is habitually sinning, something is wrong.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 9:16:15 GMT -5
A Christian "struggles" with temptation. But if he is habitually sinning, something is wrong. I agree with this 100%. Think of people who smoke or are former drug abusers. Or addicted to sex sins. There is going to be a strugle.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 24, 2006 10:08:16 GMT -5
A Christian "struggles" with temptation. But if he is habitually sinning, something is wrong. I agree with this 100%. Think of people who smoke or are former drug abusers. Or addicted to sex sins. There is going to be a strugle. There may be a struggle (unless God instantly delivers such individuals) but there must NOT be a practice.
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 24, 2006 16:28:37 GMT -5
We can overcome EVERY temptation, (I Cor. 10:13).
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 18:04:32 GMT -5
I agree with this 100%. Think of people who smoke or are former drug abusers. Or addicted to sex sins. There is going to be a strugle. There may be a struggle (unless God instantly delivers such individuals) but there must NOT be a practice. I agree...and Evan..we all sin. Till one day when we are made perfect. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 24, 2006 18:47:50 GMT -5
Why? I'm being honest, why does a person "still sin?" Can they not stop because they don't want to, or that God's grace only teaches us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, but has no power to actually endue us to preform it?
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Post by evanschaible on Aug 24, 2006 18:53:54 GMT -5
PACP,
Why do you sin? It is a choice, and you can choose not to sin. Please PACP, read first John. Either that verse I quoted is false, or you are bringing scripture down to fit you experience. No offense brother, but "he that is born of God doth not commit sin" (I John 3:9). This only increases or need for Jesus as He said "without me ye can do nothing". Abide in Him PACP, abide in Him, "whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not" (I John 3:6).
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Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 24, 2006 19:04:15 GMT -5
Oh what a great salvation! We are saved from sin, hell, and (one of my favorites) self! And to top is all off He came "that we might know Him the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He hast sent!"
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 19:08:13 GMT -5
Why? I'm being honest, why does a person "still sin?" Can they not stop because they don't want to, or that God's grace only teaches us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, but has no power to actually endue us to preform it? Ok Josh, when was the last time you lusted after a woman in your heart?
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 19:11:03 GMT -5
PACP, Why do you sin? It is a choice, and you can choose not to sin. Please PACP, read first John. Either that verse I quoted is false, or you are bringing scripture down to fit you experience. No offense brother, but "he that is born of God doth not commit sin" (I John 3:9). This only increases or need for Jesus as He said "without me ye can do nothing". Abide in Him PACP, abide in Him, "whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not" (I John 3:6). Yes, I do abide in Him. Possibly more than you do. Why would you think I don't? Your just taking the counter arguement..but honnestly I live a Holy life. I agree with the need for Jesus...we sin not, meaning that we are covered with his blood. Evan, You know what you were saved from and I know what I ws saved from. But whay do you sin?
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Post by jesussaves on Aug 24, 2006 19:13:30 GMT -5
Does saved mean set apart? Don't you have to purposely set yourself apart? It's hard to keep from sinning unless you do.By setting yourself apart I mean praying fervently,reading the word daily,singing hymns and spiritual songs in your heart to the Lord as the bible says and just pressing in close to God till your filled with His spirit and abiding in His presence.You know when your abiding in your presence because the joy of the Lord and the peace of God floods your soul.
Psalm 31:16 Make thy face shine upon thy servant.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 19:21:30 GMT -5
Does saved mean set apart? Don't you have to purposely set yourself apart? It's hard to keep from sinning unless you do.By setting yourself apart I mean praying fervently,reading the word daily,singing hymns and spiritual songs in your heart to the Lord as the bible says and just pressing in close to God till your filled with His spirit and abiding in His presence.You know when your abiding in your presence because the joy of the Lord and the peace of God floods your soul. Psalm 31:16 Make thy face shine upon thy servant. No, saved means born-again. Sanctification means set apart.
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Post by jesussaves on Aug 24, 2006 19:56:03 GMT -5
Oops sorry I meant to say doesn't sanctified mean set apart,not saved mean set apart.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 19:57:57 GMT -5
Oops sorry I meant to say doesn't sanctified mean set apart,not saved mean set apart. As far as I understand it does.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 24, 2006 20:01:45 GMT -5
Salvation is three fold.
As Christians we are:
1. "saved from wrath" Romans 5:9
2. saved, or "free from sin" Romans 6:18; 6:22
3. And also "saved from this perverse generation." Ac 2:40
So that means:
1. We are no longer on the road to hell
2. We are no longer on the road of sin
3. We are no longer going the course of this world
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Post by jesussaves on Aug 24, 2006 20:07:04 GMT -5
What Im trying to say is if we do not PURPOSELY set are hearts towards God and pray fervently,ESPECIALLY praying fervently and pressing in towards God so to speak we can backslide easily.Singing and making melody in your heart towards God drives the devil away and reading the word gets your mind thinking God's thoughts.That to me is sanctifying yourself.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 20:43:43 GMT -5
It's all about guarding your members. I work in a college town and the girls up here walk around wearing practically nothing. Thus, I drive around with my eyes closed.
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Post by jesussaves on Aug 24, 2006 20:51:22 GMT -5
It's just as hard for women.When your in the work place you get stared up and down and men come on to you,things I don't like to tell my husband b/c it just upsets him.Than you get in a fight with your husband and the devil puts all these thoughts in your head and all you can do is run home put your face to the ground and cry out to God!!!Just like Joseph!!!
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 24, 2006 21:02:03 GMT -5
Salvation is a "package deal", so to speak.
The one who is saved is saved from what?
Sin.
Eternal Damnation.
Sanctification is INSTANT at Conversion; Salvation IMMEDIATELY brings: Regeneration, Justification and Sanctification.
That's what Salvation IS; a freeing from death and a setting apart into LIFE through the Blood of Jesus Christ which is powerful enough (and more so!) to INSTANTLY set one free from the dominion of sin.
Otherwise, there is no Salvation.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 21:10:44 GMT -5
It's just as hard for women.When your in the work place you get stared up and down and men come on to you,things I don't like to tell my husband b/c it just upsets him.Than you get in a fight with your husband and the devil puts all these thoughts in your head and all you can do is run home put your face to the ground and cry out to God!!!Just like Joseph!!! It's hard for me, you, Evan Jesse, Dan...everyone. I've learned to trust (obviously obey), Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. Can you imagine how hard it is for a crack addict?
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 24, 2006 21:15:34 GMT -5
Yes, hard... but God provides the escape.
"Hard" is not an excuse; sin is wicked and vile and evil and God's hatred towards sin was shown at Calvary... as well as His Great Love.
For one to say being a Christian is "hard" is correct; it IS hard.
For one to say, "I couldn't help it" is calling God a liar by not taking the way of escape He PROMISED.
So, crack addict, pronography addict, homosexual, etc etc.... they are not saved if they practice those things... sin is sin and it's wages IS death; the Bible SAYS it is.
Excuses will vanish at the Great White Throne Judgment.
PS: I'm not negating the seriousness of bondage; I'm simply saying that if one lives in sin he is NOT saved.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 24, 2006 21:19:50 GMT -5
Yes, hard... but God provides the escape. "Hard" is not an excuse; sin is wicked and vile and evil and God's hatred towards sin was shown at Calvary... as well as His Great Love. For one to say being a Christian is "hard" is correct; it IS hard. For one to say, "I couldn't help it" is calling God a liar by not taking the way of escape He PROMISED. So, crack addict, pronography addict, homosexual, etc etc.... they are not saved if they practice those things... sin is sin and it's wages IS death; the Bible SAYS it is. Excuses will vanish at the Great White Throne Judgment. PS: I'm not negating the seriousness of bondage; I'm simply saying that if one lives in sin he is NOT saved. I agree that anyone who practices these things is probably not saved. But a saved person who yields their members can fall to the same sin. Thats why we must guard our members very seriously. Prayer is one thing..but we are not to give the devil an opportunity.
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Post by biblethumper on Aug 24, 2006 21:29:44 GMT -5
Yes, hard... but God provides the escape. "Hard" is not an excuse; sin is wicked and vile and evil and God's hatred towards sin was shown at Calvary... as well as His Great Love. For one to say being a Christian is "hard" is correct; it IS hard. For one to say, "I couldn't help it" is calling God a liar by not taking the way of escape He PROMISED. So, crack addict, pronography addict, homosexual, etc etc.... they are not saved if they practice those things... sin is sin and it's wages IS death; the Bible SAYS it is. Excuses will vanish at the Great White Throne Judgment. PS: I'm not negating the seriousness of bondage; I'm simply saying that if one lives in sin he is NOT saved. I agree that anyone who practices these things is probably not saved. But a saved person who yields their members can fall to the same sin. Thats why we must guard our members very seriously. Prayer is one thing..but we are not to give the devil an opportunity. Well said!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 24, 2006 22:00:47 GMT -5
Actually, I can.....I don't say this much, but I used to be one when I was 15.
I was a very hardcore crack addict.
But I quite cold turkey when my friends started waking up with blood all over their pillows from their mouths and noises.
I wasn't a Christian when I quit, but I quit non the same.
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Post by oap001 on Aug 25, 2006 9:16:40 GMT -5
Actually, I can.....I don't say this much, but I used to be one when I was 15. I was a very hardcore crack addict. But I quite cold turkey when my friends started waking up with blood all over their pillows from their mouths and noises. I wasn't a Christian when I quit, but I quit non the same. Praise God.
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