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Post by matthew7 on Dec 29, 2006 21:19:24 GMT -5
How could "the Roman Catholic church" be "the antichrist" when Revelation 13:18 says, "...count the number of the beast: for it is the number of A MAN..." Then John went on to give a clue to who it was.
Brobreaud,
Very good question! The 666 of Rev 13:18 is one of the points that identify the Roman Catholic Church. It is the official title of the Papacy. The Papacy has all the roots of hermitic initiation, or better called Paganism, in the higher ranks of the Church. Layman can also be initiated into the secret teachings of Hermitic doctrine, through lay foundations such as "Opus Day," and Knights of Colombus, and several other organizations. The Roman Catholic Church is the originator of the "New Age" movement, and invented "Freemasonry" and other Gnostic or Hermitic Pagan cult organizations. The true religion of the Papacy is not Christianity at the secret levels, it is pure "Lucerferian" worship. Let me prove this!
In ancient Babylon, the King was also called the High Priest, and reffered to as a "god." His official title was "Pontifax Maximus" or Pope. The number that was idolized, by this system of Pagan worship was 666. It was held by the leader of the pagan occult in ancient Babylon. The Roman Catholic Church is not at all Christian, they have brought into the church numerous Babylonian festivals that are now called "Christian," but are not Biblical, and have thier beginnings in "Devil Worship" also called Paganism (Easter, Christmass, Haloween, Sunday Sacredness). The Pope has the number 666 as it identifies him to other pagan entities, as the supreme leader. The title of the Papacy is "Vicarius Filii Dei" it means "In place of the Son of God" and "another God on earth." The title is in latin, and as you know that Latin is the official language of Roman Church, as it was with Pagan Rome. Look at the numbers as it is spelled out: V = 5 I = 1 C = 100 A = 0 R = 0 I = 1 U = 5 S = 0 ________ 112
F = 0 I = 1 L = 50 I = 1 I = 1 _________ 53
D = 500 E = 0 I = 1 __________ 501
112 501 53 _____________ 666
The Pope has to have this number, and it is not denied! It is the authority of Paganism's High Priest. The Satanists agree that the Pope is their spiritual leader. Just look at what the "Lucerferians" and the "Satanists" teach. It is nothing more than the OLD HERMITIC Egyptian mysteries, that began in Babylon. They are all the same, and they have a One World leader that all "Initiated" New Agers confess the Pope as the leader. The One World Religious Agenda at the United Nations expounds the Pope to be the Head! It was the Papacy that started the "League of Nations" and then devised the current organization the United Nations. The chief goal of the UN is to have all religions come together, which is complete! And to have a world day of worship, "SUNDAY." This day of worship is Idolatry! It is claimed as the "MARK" of the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. All world religions have submittted to this "MARK" of the authority of the Papacy, except one! The SDA's! By the way not too long ago the "Under Secretary General" of the UN met at the world counsel of SDA's and very clearly stated that we are to submit or else! He threatened us! The UN has already come up with the term "Christofacsits" for any group that claims the "Bible and the Bible" alone for salvation. Or if you preach Christ as the only way to heaven you will be branded with that term as well. The World "MARK" of obedience, and submission to the NWO (New WOrld Order) is the issue of "SUNDAY" inclusiveness! The Jews are already been converted to "Kablism" which is devil worship, and they still go to the Synagogue on Sabbath, but since they do not worship Jesus Christ, they will change the day to Sunday!
All one has to do is study this issue of One World Government, and you will see that it is not at all about the governemnt aspect, so much as it is about "WORSHIP." The Jew of old in the OT were surrounded by Pagans, called BAAL, BEL, Ashtoroth, and the religion was the Hermitic mysteries, the same as Egypt, and Babylon. When God changed the languages of the people at the Tower of Babel (Babylon), they were into "BEL" worship. Paganism has at least a hunderd names, but they are all the same worship. Anyway, when God changed the languages the people spread out throughout the earth! The forms of worship went with them. The "Inca's" in Mexaco worship the same as the Hindu's in India, the worship of Budda, and all forms of enlightenment are another form of Babylonian Pagan worship. The OT pagans that surrounded God's people were idolators, and their chief ABOMINATION was the worship of the "SUN." Their high festival each year for 2,500 years was December 25th worship, that is 2,500 years before CHrist! The 25th of December was called the rebirth of the "SUN" and they celebrated it as a Birthday. God hated this and on many occaisions, the LORD had the Pagans killed, even thier children. The LORD still hate these pagan abominations, and even more so since the "whold world wonders after the beast" Rev 13:3
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. KJV.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. KJV.
Jesus Christ has not changed! He never allowed the Antichrist church of Rome to Change the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday! He never sanctioned this ABOMINATION! It is paganism! It is a tradition in the apostate Christian churches, and God has given a message of reform to His people! Many of our brethern are so deceived, because they do not have a clue between Law and Grace! They do not understand the relationship! THerefore, they have a false gospel and wonder after the beast, and the Bible calls them the "False Prophet." The Dragon is direct devil worship, the Beast is a form of Christianity but denies the Bible as its authority, and worships Satan indirectly, and the Flase Prophet is the Sunday folks that think they worship God, and claim the Bible, but are still involved in pagan traditions.
Dragon = Eastern religions, New Agers Beast = Roman Catholic Church False Prophet = Apostate protestants (Sunday)
THe head of all three is Satan, and he transferred his seat, power and authority to work through a man. The POPE!
Revelation 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. KJV.
More on this later!
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Dec 29, 2006 21:51:22 GMT -5
I ment to post Revelation 13:2 and not 13:3 at the end
Rev 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. KJV
The world wonders after the High Priest of Pagan worship, the Pope, and the "Mark" of authority for the Papacy, and the One World Order is SUNDAY worship! It is the world day of rest, and after the Middle East is subdued by the wars, it will be the Mark of World authority and allegiance! Devil worshippers, Catholics, Eastern mystery religions, and Sunday Protestants, have no problem with the Mark of WOrld authority, the "MARK OF THE BEAST!" God has His people in these false systems of worship and is calling them out!
Rev 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. KJV.
The whole world is "DRUNK" on the wine of Babylon, the false teachings of Pagan doctrine! The Sunday Protestants do not one single thing different now than the enemy of the Jew's in the OT. And to top it all off, they take the name of JESUS CHRIST! Wow! That is sin!
Exodus 20:7
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. KJV
Matthew 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. KJV.
The Bible is clear! The worship of God is according to His Word, not the Pagan traditions that the Antichrist has brought into the church and "Baptized" as Christain. God does not change! Look what He did to Nadab and Abihu:
Leviticus 10:1 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. KJV.
The LORD said to light the fire with HOLY fire from the sanctuary, but these sons of Aaron took common fire! God directed how the worship was to be conducted, and the penalty is death! Even to the sons of Aaron! Even to CHristians that do not follow the Bible! THey will burn just like Nadab and Abihu, God has not changed in His requirements! We are to obey! There will be a judgment! The Law of God is the standard in the judgment, whether people HATE the Law or not! Look at Cain and Abel, Cain offered fruits and not a lamb! Whs his sacrifice of fruits accepted? NO!!!! Never! Why? Because the Lamb pointed towards the LAMB OF GOD, that was to die and do away with the system of ceremonial lamb killing. Fruits are not a lamb! God hated the offering of Cain and Nadab and Abihu. What about uzzah, when he touched the ARK OF GOD, when David was bringing it to Jerusalem? He touched it and BAM! Dead on the spot. Why? Because, he was not to touch it only carry it! God has not changed! Man's perception of God in the end of time is an abomination! And I mean Christian's and their absolute confusion, on every point of doctrine in the Bible! Just look around this chat room! Not one agrees with each other! But all have the same Bible! Why? A TOTAL LACK OF OBEDIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING!!!!! Where does Biblical understanding come from? 1) From a knowledge of the creator. Heb 11:3, 2) From His Law, which is the transcript of His character.
Hebrews 11:3 (CREATOR)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. KJV
Psalm 111:10 (HIS LAW)
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. KJV MAtthew
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Post by brobreaud on Dec 30, 2006 4:31:34 GMT -5
"...the number of A MAN." Rev. 13:18 A man, not men, many men (popes), or a church.
A=0 R=0 F=0 E=0 Too convenient?
Only the SDA church has the truth? Funny, Catholics say the same thing.
And please don't tell me you are a "one world order" conspiracy theorist who thinks if others don't believe there is a conspiracy YOU MUST BE PART OF IT!
I am a Christian, non-denomination, not a Protestant.
Beast= Roman empire whore= Jerusalem Ezekiel 16:46-50; Rev. 17:16 & 19:2
This church or that church, it is the church of the Lord Jesus Christ you need to be a part of by having repented of your sins and being born again into God's family.
Brobreaud
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Post by brobreaud on Dec 30, 2006 4:33:56 GMT -5
Huh? That should be:
whore= Jerusalem Ezekiel 16:46-50; Rev. 17:16 & 19:2
Very odd!
Brobreaud
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Post by brobreaud on Dec 30, 2006 4:52:47 GMT -5
Wonder if this will work?: W H O R E=Jerusalem
Hope that worked.
Brobreaud
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Post by matthew7 on Dec 31, 2006 8:36:02 GMT -5
Revelation 13:17-18
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. KJV
The man at the head of the beast system of worship is the POPE, and his title and crown is the same! THe title of the Catholic Church is 666. They are the church of Pagan worship! It was the Catholic Church that brought the festival of Isthar or Easter, into Christianity. Easter was only mentioned once in the Bible and it was one of the Roman kings that was keeping the festival. Easter is ancient sex cult worship, and the Catholic Church just fit it into Christianity, and all the world wonders after the satanic delights of this church. Halloween, celebrating demons, it from the Catholic Church as well, that is Pagan. THe same with Dec 25th worship, it is the SUN that starts to stay out longer from the 25th of Dec until mid summer! The Dec. 25th day was called the birth of the SUN god! It was a high festival in pagan devil worship for thousands of years. Now it is called a Christian holiday. But Santa (Satan) claus is involved! The Pagans just change the spelling of Satan around. THere is a Satanic cult that calls itself "Sanat" why? Because it spells Satan! THey just change the letters around, to confuse people! That is who people worship, with thier x-mass trees it is an abomination.
Jeremiah 10:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. KJV.
This festival was done on Dec. 25. This was in the OT. What are Christians doing with this abomination? What are they thinking? It has nothing to do with CHrist! But everything to do with Satan!
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Dec 31, 2006 23:02:21 GMT -5
If we are involved with Pagan forms of religion, that are not Biblical, which are errors of tradition, how can we worship God in Spirit and in truth???
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit : and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. KJV.
Better yet, if the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, and we love the nonbiblical errors of the Roman Catholic Church, how can we be taught by truth, when we are practicing known error and refuse to change???
John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth , which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: KJV.
And if Jesus Christ hates traditions (christmass, Sunday worship, Easter, Haloween) and calls them vain, how can we live in disobedience to Jesus Christ and call Him LORD???
Matthew 15:3
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? KJV
Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. KJV.
Is this issue not clear? The Seventh Day Sabbath is Biblical, is it not? Then why do people follow the tradition of Sunday worship, when Jesus Christ calls it "vain" (worthless)?
Matthew
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Post by brobreaud on Jan 1, 2007 21:19:24 GMT -5
Matthew,
I do not celebrate Easter, Christmas, and I know Halloween is rooted in Druid wickedness, appeasing spirits who roam around supposedly and trying to please them with treats.
Don't the days get longer after Dec. 21st? The winter solstice?
I know Santa is a lie we should not tell our children.
We should not worship trees. And don't forget Jer. 10:5 "They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."
And you're going to talk about Easter, Christmas, Sunday, and Halloween in the context of unwashen hands and not taking care of your parents in their old age?
I know you, a lot of Christians and quite a few heathen want so bad for the Catholic church to be the beast and the Pope to be Antichrist. But what if maybe, just maybe, it was Nero Caesar?
Oh, for a dialogue with a premillenial believer.
But remember, Jonah 3:4 "...Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."
Brobreaud
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 23:27:52 GMT -5
Brobreaud:
Praise God there is somebody else that does not do the abominations of Easter, Haloween, Christmass, or the Santa demon worship! Look, I really would like to do a serious study on Daniel and Revelation, but we have to agree on some basic principles. THe Bible and the Bible only for all answers to the study. Unless something historical pops up, as in fulfillment of a prophecy, but all Bible issues need to be from the WORD. What do you think? WHere do you want to start?
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 1, 2007 23:47:19 GMT -5
Brobreaud;
Here are some basic questions, and I want to see if you agree or disagree?
1) Why was the scriptures given to us?
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. KJV.
2) How were the scriptures given?
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: KJV.
3) For what is scripture profitable?
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV.
4) What is the LORD able to do regarding the future?
Isaiah 42:9
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. KJV.
5) How far does God see into the future?
Isaiah 46:9-10
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: KJV.
6) To whom does God reveal His truth, or secrets about the future?
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. KJV.
7) To whom to the things revealed belong?
Deuteronomy 29:29
29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. KJV.
8) What does prophecy do for the believer?
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: KJV.
9) What has ever been the desire of God's prophets?
1 Peter 1:9-10 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: KJV.
10) Whose spirit was in the prophets?
1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. KJV
Praise the LORD if we can agree on this the study will be fruitful and be Word of God based! We will be blessed!
Matthew
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 2, 2007 5:08:31 GMT -5
I recently did a in depth study on the rapture.
These verses show a rapture will occur:
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thess 4:13-17)
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Cor 51-54)
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 2, 2007 17:15:10 GMT -5
Johnathan, You are correct! There will be a rapture. But when does it happen, and how does it happen is the great questions? There is a seriously false teaching on the rapture. This false teaching is called the "secret rapture" and it teaches: there will be a rapture, then 7 years of tribulation, then another rapture at the end of that. This false teaching which came from the Catholic Church, and the reason why, is clear. Think about how many chances God gives us to get right with Him. All mankind has one chance to get it right! Just one! If you teach there will be two raptures, then if you miss the first you can always catch the second. It encourages the half committed to just wait and see, and then if it is real, well, then they will get serious, but let's just wait and see until then. THis is the pure, deep deceptions of Satan! He wants people to take their time, just wait and see. But what does the Word of God say? Mark 1:15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. KJV. Mark 1:17 17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. KJV. Anybody that is not involved in souls winning, will be lost! If they believe the gospel they will give all to it. To withhold anything is to withhold all! But Satan tempts man to just sit back and wait and see. A second chance theory just makes their soul delight with ease. It lulls them into the cradle of carnal security. And when they wake up they will be in the second ressurection of the wicked, to be burnt in hell fire, and turned into ashes! Lets do a study and see the truth of what God's Word actually says on this subject. What did Jesus Christ have to say on the issue of His second coming? Certainly we can believe the KJV, and not man's fancy little fictional books about a supposed top secret rapture! John 14:3-4 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. KJV. Jesus states he will leave and come back! Is there any indication that He will come back twice for us or 10 times for us, or numerous times? NO! NO! NO! He will come back once! That is it! I would like to put a series of texts up and have you look at them! Tell me how many days of His second coming are mentioned? You will notice in all the texts, that there is only one day mentioned, called "THAT DAY." Not "in those days" but in "That Day." There is only one day, in which Jesus CHrist will come! Just one! Matt 24:36 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. KJV Matt 7:22 22 Many will say to me in that day , Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? KJV Luke 6:23 23 Rejoice ye in that day , and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. KJV 1 Thess 5:4 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.KJV 2 Thess 2:3 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; KJV. The evidence is in and the "DOUBLE DAY" rapture theory is again exposed for what it is; a Satanic delusion that has permeated the Sunday Churches, with the wine of Babylon! False doctrine for the "False Prophets." But God has not left them unwarned, He has given them His Word, and He expects people to worship the Word of God and to obey everything it reveals. He wants us to know Him from his truth! The only way we can do this is to stop reading "Charles Finney" and to start reading the Word of God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength!! We need "Thus saith the LORD." Then we will all be Sabbath keeping Christians, with true Bible doctrine! Let us look more into the "SECRET RAPTURE" filth, and really dig up some of its stench! 1 Thess 4:14-18 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.KJV 1) At the second coming, the dead in Christ will be ressurected! This will only happen once! Not twice, in secret! "...and the dead in Christ shall rise first." 2) "we say unto you by the word of the Lord" WOW! This is a strong statement! By the Word of the LORD! Not by popular fictional books that make millions of dollars! But by what? THE WORD OF THE LORD!!!!!!!! Not by man's popular theories, but by THE WORD! The Word of God found in the only true Bible for english speaking people, the KJV! That is it!!! 3) The second coming will not be "TOP SECRET" and the rapture will not be in private! But will be the loudest event in the history of mankind. Billions of huge angels with massive wing spans, and they will encomapssing the entire world, crying HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!! I have chills just writing this! It will not be secret! It is a one time event! Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: KJV. 4) THe event will be loud! "...with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God." HOW LOUD IS THE TRUMP OF GOD? ? How loud is the "voice of the archangel?" It will not be a secret! It will be loud, it will be powerful! It will be bright as well! Matthew 24:31 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.KJV HOW LOUD IS A GREAT SOUND OF THE TRUMPET OF GOD? ? 5) How much light will there be? Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east , and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. KJV. Now many people use 1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 3 to try to prove a secret rapture! But if we just look at the following verse, we will see the opposite is true!!! Verse 3 tells all! It defines verse 2!!!!!! It comes as a thief, to them that are not preparing themselves now! It is a thief to them, that are at ease, but what happens? SUDDEN DESTRUCTION!!!!! Why are they suddenly destroyed? Because the second coming will just burst forth from the sky! And billions of people will not be ready! It will shock them, and at that point it will be too late! It will be sudden! Not secret! Do you see how Satan has twisted the WORD of God to come up with new false doctrines, that cause people to take it easy! 1 Thess 5:2-3 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. KJV. I would like to do another study on the seven years of tribulation! And prove how Tim Lahay, and Jeremy Jenkins used Roman Catholic theories to do their work for Satan! Once again the Catholic Church (The Antichrist) is behind the sceens, pulling the strings of the protestant world. And all the world follows the beast...Rev 13:2,3. Matthew
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 2, 2007 20:42:24 GMT -5
I believe the rapture will occur before the tribultation. There will be only one rapture no secret rapture afterwards.
When will the rapture occur? Well we don't exactly know the precise date but we can speculate. If you believe God's Word to be perfect and take it as your final authority there is an interesting study which shows that the rapture is very very close...
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 3, 2007 19:48:05 GMT -5
I believe the rapture will occur before the tribultation. There will be only one rapture no secret rapture afterwards. Johnathan, If there is a rapture before the tribulation, then at the end of the tribulation, how are the people taken to heaven? We can therefore conclude, that there is in fact one "rapture" and it can only be after the tribulation period! Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 3, 2007 19:53:56 GMT -5
Biblical Evidence that we go through the Seven Last Plagues:
Ps 91:6-11
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. KJV
Not only that, we have the Old Testament that the Jews went through the 10 plagues of Egypt! Egypt was destroyed! God protected them!
1 Cor 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. KJV.
Matthew
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Post by brobreaud on Jan 3, 2007 20:45:48 GMT -5
If the church is raptured before or martyred during the "tribulation", and the wicked are destroyed at Christ's second coming, who will be in the "thousand year reign" if everybody's vanished or dead?
Right Matthew, I Cor.10:11 Paul knew it was those living in his time "upon whom the ends of the world "(age, Jewish covenant) came.
The last days were at Pentecost. Acts 2:17
Hebrews 1:2 says "in these last days spoken to us by His Son..." then.
John was "in tribulation" Rev. 1:9 because those events were "things which MUST SHORTLY to come to pass" Rev. 1:1
This is not "futurism", if anything it is pastism.
I am trying to stick with what the Bible says, as you said, Matthew.
Brobreaud
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 4, 2007 0:24:37 GMT -5
THE EARTH IS LEFT DESOLATE, THE 1000 YEAR REIGN IS IN HEAVEN, NOT ON THE EARTH, SATAN IS GOING TO BE CHAINED TO THE EARTH WITH NO ONE TO DECEIVE UNTIL THE 1000 YEAR REIGN IS COMPLETE.
And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. (Rev 16:18),20). I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord. (Jer 4:26) The Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it wast. The land shall be utterly emptied (Isaiah 24:1,3)
The 6th seal was broken in November 1, 1755 with the Lisbon earthquake
May 19th 1780 The Sun turned into Darkness (Matt 24:29) and that evening, the Moon turned into Blood (Joel 2:31) Fulfillment of prophecy. (do a Internet search) (Revelation 6:12-13)
The Stars fall from Heaven on November 13, 1833 (Matt 24:29)
It was so bright that a newspaper could be read n the street. " for nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze. And what is interesting all the meteorites where coming from one Central point. (meterorites are random when they enter the Earths atmosphere.)
Satan has deceived most of the World on this issue, That is why Jesus said, Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Matt 24:44)
Jesus is coming back very, very soon--in our present day. Are you ready?
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 4, 2007 0:51:18 GMT -5
THE ORIGIN OF THE 7 - TRIBULATION PERIOD
We are completely unaware of the History of Christianity during the years of A.D. 1500-1800 -- This was the time of the Protestant Reformation in Europe, when Martin Luther challenged the Doctrines of Rome. He was "Protesting" the un-Biblical doctrines of the Papacy, the Church that held Christianity in an Iron Grip.
EVERY PROTESTANT GROUP IN THE 1500-1800'S IDENTIFIED THE PAPACY AS THE "MAN OF SIN" AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" And they had ample evidence from the Bible upon which to base this belief -- Accordingly, the Papacy desperately wanted to find a way to get themselves off the hotseat!
Jesuit Priests spent many years studying the Books of Daniel and Revelation, and one of these Jesuits created "futurism" the idea of moving the 70th week down to the end of time! This way they could say that the Anti-Christ isn't the Papacy, and that the Anti-Christ will show up sometime in the "Distant Future."
MOST OF TODAY'S CHRISTIANS HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THIS!!
MOVING THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL DOWN TO THE END OF TIME IS NOT BIBLICAL.
It is an interpretation that originated with the Jesuits of Rome.
His name is Francisco Ribera (1537 - 1591) In 1590 Ribera published a 500 - page commentary on the Apocalypse, denying the Protestant Application of "Anti-Christ" to the Church of Rome.
Most all Christianity preaches his findings.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 4, 2007 1:02:03 GMT -5
THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE IS A DANGEROUS TEACHING
the People who believe in the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE read here that Jesus is going to come as a "Thief," so they think it will be a quiet, "secretive"event.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night (because most Christians have not Idea when Jesus is coming)... in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, (NO AIR TO BREATH), and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, (TO HOT TO STAND), the earth also and the works that are there in shall be burned up! 2 Peter 3:10
THIS IS NOT A SECRET EVENT, THE 7 YEAR RAPTURE THEORY IS OF THE DEVIL TO DECEIVE US.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD! (1 Thes 4:16)
The Trumpets of God are not "quiet " things! These Trumpets are gong to be loud enough to wake the Dead!!
THE SECRET RAPTURE TEACHING DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP IN OUR PROTESTANT CHURCHES UNTIL 1830
WHY WOULD THE BIBLE "WITHHOLD" A CLEAR TEACHING OF CHRIST'S RETURN FOR 18 CENTURIES. IT MAKE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 4, 2007 1:13:25 GMT -5
The Devil is responsible for all this false teaching of the second coming, because many Christians are breaking God's Commandments, and are blind, and many Christians think they are saved and are not, Most Christians are in danger of losing their salvation, Read Matthew 13, The Lord is only talking to His Children, all of them are in the Churches. Many will say in that day, Lord, Lord, did I not do wonderful things in Thy Name, Jesus says Depart from me, Ye that work "Lawlessness" Breaking God's 10 precious commandments, by choice.
The Second coming is the "blessed hope" (Titus 2:13) of the Christian, and that once understood, it changes the lives of men and women and leads them to take a personal, diligent, active part in spreading that good news to others so that Christ's coming may be hastened.
This infuriates Satan, so he influences those who have " a form of godliness" (2 Timothy 3:5) but deny "the power thereof" to scoff, saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning. 2 Peter 3:3,4. Those who deny, ignore, or make light of Christ's second advent (as a literal, soon-coming event) are specifically fulfilling Bible prophecy -- and doing the devil a very great service.
TrustandObey
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 4, 2007 1:21:46 GMT -5
BUT WASN'T JESUS SPEAKING OF THE SECRET RAPTURE WHEN HE SAID IN LUKE "17:36, "ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT"
No!! There is not the slightest indication that the event is secret. Jesus was describing Noah's flood and the destruction of Sodom. (See Luke 17:26-37).) He told how God spared Noah and Lot and destroyed the wicked. He says specifically that the flood and fire "destroyed them all. Verses 27,29. Plainly, in each case, a few were taken to safety and the rest were destroyed.
Then He added, "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." verse 30. To illustrate, Jesus continued, "Two men shall be in the field: the one shall be taken, and the other left. Verse 36. There is nothing secret about it. "Every eye shall see him." Revelation 1:7.
At His second coming, Christ publicly and openly takes the righteous up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17) and slays the wicked (Isaiah 11:4:2 Thessalonians 2:8). Thar's why Luke 17:37 speaks of the bodies of the wicked and mentions the eagles (or vultures) gathered around them. (See Revelation 19:17),18.)
The Wicked who are left behind at Christ's coming are left dead.
TrustandObey
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 4, 2007 14:46:41 GMT -5
Brobreaud wrote:
"Right Matthew, I Cor.10:11 Paul knew it was those living in his time "upon whom the ends of the world "(age, Jewish covenant) came."
My dear brother,
I am not sure you realize what you wrote but, the "last time" started at the cross, and will end (very shortly) now! This is the last time, of which all the Bible is pointing to !
The 144,000 will be all that is left when Christ comes. That is it! Whether it is literal, or figurative for a larger number, that is all that will go through the 7 last plagues. The rest will be beheaded for the witness of Jesus Christ, and be resurrected at the second coming. Pray that we can perfect Christian character, so that you can live through this time and receive the "seal" of God in your mind!
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 4, 2007 15:08:34 GMT -5
The future saints/myrtyr's:
Rev 6:11
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.KJV
Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. KJV.
The future myrtyr's are the people that will be killed again by the beast power, the Roman Catholic Church, with the United States as the force (military) behind the persecutions. The closing scenes of earth's history, which are soon, will be the result of the exposure of the sins of Babylon. Babylon is all the world religions united to the Catholic Church. When all of these apostates, are united on the elevation of Sunday worship, a Satanic practice from the "dark ages," then all will be guilty of IDOLATRY! For Sunday worship is an idol and by doing it, a person worships Satan. They are deceived! The Commandment keepers will be like the "three Hebrew boys" and will not bow down to this idol god, Sunday worship. The fire will be heated seven times as hot. Meaning God will not only deliver His faithful Commandment Keepers, but the ones that take them to be killed will be slain. Please read Daniel chapter 3 and Daniel chapter 6. The Hebrews were in a pagan "Sun worshipping" culture of Babylon, and and so are we! They would not bow to the image that these "Sun" worshippers made, neither will a small group of faithful SDA's. The modern commandment keepers. The only light the faithful accept is from the SON, not the sun! The National SUnday Laws are coming, and all the world wants the wicked Sunday laws!
Matthew
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 6, 2007 23:16:31 GMT -5
A study on the Mark of the Beast, and final Death Decree of Revelation 13:15.
Daniel Chapter three Part 1 Introduction:
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. KJV.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. KJV.
The stories of Daniel are not just old historical events, but were the providence of God worked out for us in the end of time, so that the earth and its teeming multitudes will not receive the Mark of the Beast. These chapters in Daniel, and other places in the Old Testament are for our learning, and examples! See the book of Ester, and the death penalty there, and in Daniel ch 3and ch 6. We need to know these things because of the prophecies of Revelation are soon to be fulfilled. Daniel is where the prophecies are found and the book of Revelation are where they are revealed. Look at the future death decree that is prophecied.
Revelation 13:14-15
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. KJV.
Here are the events of Daniel chapter three and six. They are examples for our learning played out on the larger stage of world events, in the closing scenes of earth's history. Revelation chapter 13, talks of the image of the beast, and it mark! All that do not worship this image is going to be put to death. The image is about worship! The Bible and the Bible only tells us what true worship is acceptable with God. Violating this through the traditions of man will result in the sin of false worship. We will see through a through study in Daniel, Revelation, and some parts of the OT, to give a view into the final "DEATH DECREE" for those that are faithful to God as evidenced by the keeping of God's commandments.
BRIEF OVERVIEW:
Dan 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. KJV
Note: the image adds up to 666.
Dan 3:12
12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. KJV.
In the midst of pagan "SUN" worshipers, there are three Sabbath keepers, or three men that keep all the commandments of God. They were a sore thumb to the many violators of God's law. Here the image required worship, as commanded by King Nebuchadnezzar, he ordered all people (Dan 3:7) to bow down to this image as a sign of his authority. We know that behind the sceens it was Satan that inspired King Neb. to do this. Look at the spiritual battle!
Ephesians 6:12-14
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; KJV.
What is the breastplate of righteousness? It is the Law of God in our hearts. For righteousness is the Ten Commandments of God's Law. And the Law is to be written in our hearts. A breast plate guards the heart. Therefore, the breastplate of righteousness is the only defence Christians have in the end of time. For if we break one of the Ten Commandments, we break them all, according to James 2:10.
Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. KJV.
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; KJV.
God can only defend us as we obey, for disobedience is sin, and when man sins he seperates from God and is on Satan's enchanted ground.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. KJV.
The three Hebrew boys that were in Babylon knew the importance of obedience and did not want to offend God. So they chose death in the firey furnace rather than break the law of God.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. KJV.
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; KJV.
Only as we obey God can we have His protection! Hebrews 5:9 is the final thought for this introduction, into this series on the Mark of the Beast, and the final death decree, as we explore the books of the Bible that shed much light on this issue.
Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; KJV.
Matthew
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Post by aclark1611 on Jan 6, 2007 23:44:23 GMT -5
Good verses to goto are 1 thess 4.13 - 18. Not only is this the "catching away". but it is also the resurrection.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 7, 2007 4:11:36 GMT -5
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:13)
What is the "blessed hope"?
This is the rapture in which believers are waiting for.
Here are a few reasons why Christians will be raptured before the Tribulation period:
1) Christ's coming is called a "blessed hope" and the Tribulation is not a blessed hope to look forward to going through.
2) "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess 5:9)
3) The Tribualtion is likened to Noah's Flood and the Judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah where God spared the righteous (Matt 24:37).
4) If we were to be raptured midway or at the end of the Tribulation, we would know the day of Christ's return, which no man knows. - "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matt 24:36)
These are just a few reasons off the top of my head...
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Post by matthew7 on Jan 7, 2007 14:17:27 GMT -5
Jonathan,
I see your logic, but there are problems. First of all, if Noah's flood was a type of destruction for the end of the world, then that proves that we go through the seven last plagues. Not only that there is no seven year period. That is a deception taken from the Satanic teachings of TIm Lahay, and Jeremy Jenkins. THese men are false teachers. They took the seven year period from Daniel chapter 9:27. The one week is done! It has already been fulfilled! Christ fulfilled it when He was on earth. It just goes to show how much damage these false teachers have done to the study of eschatology.
The one week of Daniel 9:27 was a seven year period,
Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. KJV.
In the middle of the week Jesus Christ was to be killed! Sacrificed! When Jesus Christ was sacrificed for mankind, the old Jewish sanctuary system came to an end! It was no longer accepted in heaven as a means of salvation. Why? Because Jesus Christ had come to die, in the place of the thousands of animals that were being sacrificed, as a symbol of what He was to do. The middle of the week would have been 3 1/2 years, the exact length of the ministry of Jesus Christ. The remaining 3 1/2 years, was given to the Jews to accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice and to repent. But exactly 3 1/2 years later the Jewish nation met together in the form of the national counsel, called the Sanhedrin and murdered the ambassador or witness for Christ, his name was Steven. When they killed Steven they were forever "cut off" from the covenant promises of God. The New Covenant was already in effect, and they would have no part in it as a NATION. Only as individuals. Therefore, immediatly after the death of Steven, God raised up a power witness to be a witness to the Gentiles. THat was Saul of Tarsus, also called Paul. He was to be the herald of the New Covenant to the Gentile world!
Satan has taken the 1 week, or seven year period, a day for a year (Ezekiel 4:6), out of context, it talks about Jesus Christ, and now all the churches think it talks about the antichrist, in the future. This is heresy! The 1 week period of Daniel 9:27, or seven year period is finished! It has been fulfilled!
Matthew
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Post by trustandobey on Jan 7, 2007 14:25:16 GMT -5
THE LONGEST PROPHECY BEGINS
the 70 week prophecy (Dan 9:24-27) is the first part of the 2300 day prophecy. Seventy Weeks are "determined ("cut off" in Hebrew -- cut off from the larger 2300 day (year) prophecy) for the Jews.
Therefore, the first part of the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8:14 is time allocated to the Jews, (As a Nation) to conclude their probation as God's specially favored nation.
In Bible prophecy, a day equals a year (Num 14:34; Ezek 4:6). The decree of Artaxerxes, given in his seventh year as king, in 457 b.c. (Dan 9:25; Ezra 6:14; 7:6-8), restoring the Jewish government, begins this vast time prophecy of 2300 years.
The first 70 weeks (Dan 9:24-27) of this prophecy, cut off are allotted to the Jews, equals 490 continual years. The walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt in 7 weeks, or 49 years (408 B.C.) (Right on Time). Another 62 weeks brings us to the anointing of Christ for His mission in A.D. 27. Now 483 years are past; only 1 week remains of the 70.
In the midst of this week (Dan 9:26-27), A.D. 31 the Messiah is cut off, crucified. (Folks this is the week that is used, "thrown" into the future, after the rapture, and the Anti-Christ then is reveled) The anti-Christ (Messiah) is cut off. NOT BIBLICAL.
A second half-week of three and one half years bring us to A.D. 34, when at the stoning of Stephen the gospel is taken to the Gentiles.
THE LONGEST PROPHECY ENDS.
In A.D. 34 the 70 weeks, or 490 years, is completed. There remains 1810 years of this longest Bible prophecy, of Daniel 8:14, to be fulfilled, At its termination, in A.D. 1844, began the "cleansing of the Sanctuary" (Psalm 77:13) predicted in this important passage of Daniel 8:14.
MOVING THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL DOWN TO THE END OF TIME IS NOT BIBLICAL. MOVING THE LAST YEAR OF THE 70TH WEEK, WAS DONE BY THE DEVIL.
Jesus is our High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary (the pattern of the earthly). In 1844, He began His final work in it, prior to His second advent to the earth for His people.
Only Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled this prophecy (not a future anti-Christ) When Christ was crucified, and by His death caused to cease, or brought to an end, the sacrifices and oblations of the earthly sanctuary.
HOW WAS JESUS ANOINTED?
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power. Act 10:38
AT WHAT TIME DID JESUS RECEIVE THE SPECIAL ANOINTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art My beloved Son." Luke 3:21-22
WHAT DID JESUS SAY SHORTLY AFTER THIS?
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. Luke 4:18
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. (mark 1:15)
HAVE YOU THOUGHT WHY JESUS SAID:
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Matt 18:22 Jesus was trying to warn the Israel Nation it time was about to end for His people.
Note: It is evident that the sixty-nine weeks (483 years) were to reach to the baptism of Christ, as that was the time of His anointing by the Holy Spirit, John the Baptist began his work in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius (Luke 3:1-3). Tiberius began to reign conjointly with his father in the year 12 A.D., two years before his father's death (Prideaux's Connection," vol. 1, page 246). The fifteenth year of his reign would therefore be 27 A.D., the time when Jesus was anointed, at His baptism.
Note This Artaxerxes began to reign 464 B.C. (Prideaux's Connection, vol.1 page 222 "Smith's Comprehensive Dictionary." art. Artaxerxes).
Dr. Adam Clarke says: According to the commandment of the God of Israel, He first gave the order, and stirred up the hears of the following Persian Kings to second that order: "Of Cyrus. This sovereign gave his orders for the rebuilding of the temple about 536 B.C. " And Darius. Darius Hystaspes confirmed the above order, 519 B.C. " And Artaxerxes. Artaxerxes Longimaus sent Ezra to Judea with new privileges, 457 B.C. Thee letter of Artaxerxes to Ezra conferring upon him authority to do this work, is found in Ezra 7:11-26
THERE IS NO DOUBT OF THE START OF THE 23OO, 490 DAY (YEAR) PROPHECIES: 457 B.C.
TrustandObey
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