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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 16, 2007 13:30:17 GMT -5
I was mainly thinking about how to gather a crowd. Is there a non-biblical way? What made me think about this topic is Ray Comfort's monthy article. www.livingwaters.com/columns_ray/
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Post by SlowBro on Jan 16, 2007 16:21:28 GMT -5
I was mainly thinking about how to gather a crowd. Is there a non-biblical way? If I were to guess, I'd say it's wrong (Biblically) to draw with anger, by making statements that incite anger.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 16, 2007 16:28:37 GMT -5
In case anyone was wondering, I wasn't coming against Ray or anything. It just made me start thinking about different ways to draw a crowd. If there is a wrong way, a right way, does it matter? ect..
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 16, 2007 19:15:45 GMT -5
I don't think we should try and draw a crowd. When we try and get a crowd we are relying on our flesh not the work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and women unto Him.
We have seen two people soundly saved (in the past month) by just standing with our banner and preaching.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 16, 2007 21:12:05 GMT -5
I don't think we should try and draw a crowd. When we try and get a crowd we are relying on our flesh not the work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and women unto Him. We have seen two people soundly saved (in the past month) by just standing with our banner and preaching. That is somewhat my policy. I just preach. Sometimes I get a crowd, other times I don't.
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Post by josh on Jan 16, 2007 23:37:44 GMT -5
I just stand up and preach. God is the one who will bring a crowd.
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Post by seanpayne on Jan 17, 2007 1:06:54 GMT -5
hmmmm this brings up other questions too. What about gospel tracts that dont appear as gospel tracts. Like the giant money ones, titanic, tons of the living waters ones. I have preferred them because I know people are more likely to take them because of their appearance, instead of an obvious Gospel one for most cases when I don't really have the time to talk to the person. I have thought about this as well.
Since currently I have been preaching at the bus area I just go right into it; especially because of the lack of time(the buses could come anytime) But I have done crowd drawing more in the summer times and I have noticed that once I go into the spirtual a lot of people leave. So once again that may even show more the necessity to just preach and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Post by alan4jc on Jan 17, 2007 1:12:24 GMT -5
Why worry about how you draw the crowd so long as it isn't done sinfully? If your out there to preach the gospel for the glory of God and not for your own gain.
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Post by seanpayne on Jan 17, 2007 1:13:27 GMT -5
Oh yes I just remembered. I also stand on a "soapbox" like thing every single time I preach, always. I do see elevation with preaching in the Bible. Sermon on mount, Mars Hill, etc. I never really thought about this as relying on the flesh, but I dunno.
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Post by alan4jc on Jan 17, 2007 1:14:30 GMT -5
Sean when you say relying on the "flesh" what is it you mean?
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Post by alan4jc on Jan 17, 2007 1:19:55 GMT -5
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
Ro 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
I don't want to alter the thread....Sorry
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Post by seanpayne on Jan 17, 2007 12:41:33 GMT -5
Well I suppose when I say flesh I mean relying on my own abilites to "be a good speaker, or attract a crowd and etc.", instead of relying on God. I suppose I should use a different word for it.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 17, 2007 17:43:30 GMT -5
I think we must be spiritual and rely on the Holy Spirit.
An we must be practical and do what we can to get peoples attention and interest.
If we don't care if we get a crowd or not, then we don't really care if people listen to the gospel or not, in which case, why preach in public at all? Isn't the point of public preaching, preaching to the public? But if there is no public to listen, what purpose does the public preaching have? I think that drawing a crowd is very important, because the crowd is made up of individuals who need Jesus.
I think the best way to draw a crowd is by preaching biblical truth. Jesus started by saying, "REPENT! AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL". From my own 4 years experience in open air, having tried many tricks and gimmicks to draw a crowd, I conclude that nothing draws a crowd better then the straight, honest, bold preaching of the bible.
However you draw the crowd is how you are going to have to keep the crowd. So I draw a crowd by preaching the bible, and then I don't have to worry about the crowd leaving when I'm preaching the bible, because they came because I was preaching it, even if they disagree with it. At least the God of the bible is the issue and the debate from the onset.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 18, 2007 10:21:54 GMT -5
I think we must be spiritual and rely on the Holy Spirit. An we must be practical and do what we can to get peoples attention and interest. If we don't care if we get a crowd or not, then we don't really care if people listen to the gospel or not, in which case, why preach in public at all? Isn't the point of public preaching, preaching to the public? But if there is no public to listen, what purpose does the public preaching have? I think that drawing a crowd is very important, because the crowd is made up of individuals who need Jesus. I think the best way to draw a crowd is by preaching biblical truth. Jesus started by saying, "REPENT! AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL". From my own 4 years experience in open air, having tried many tricks and gimmicks to draw a crowd, I conclude that nothing draws a crowd better then the straight, honest, bold preaching of the bible. However you draw the crowd is how you are going to have to keep the crowd. So I draw a crowd by preaching the bible, and then I don't have to worry about the crowd leaving when I'm preaching the bible, because they came because I was preaching it, even if they disagree with it. At least the God of the bible is the issue and the debate from the onset. I agree with that. I don't like using anything more than Bible- signs or preaching. I still struggle often times to get crowds. This time of year it is very hard in my area. Usually we just get signs and people will some to us. That seems to work better for us in the cold months at our location. Also, all the "regulars" know us and know our message. There are quite a few "regulars." So usually the people that come talk us are "new comers." I actually like it that so many people see us consistantly. Some of them have befriended us. It's odd, because we always remind them that they must repent yet the would fight to the death of us! We have had some nearly get in fights defending us because someone cussed us and the other didn't like it. Too bad they are not willing to die to self! When are you going to release more info about the evangelism school? I have been considering applying for it. At the moment I don't feel I have the Lord's provision on it. I have to pay off my college loans before I can do something like that. Trust me, it is on my mind often.
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Post by seanpayne on Jan 18, 2007 11:01:36 GMT -5
Good responses. I like this forum, because I learn from those who are more experienced.
Have any of you preachers ever been accused of shoving religion down someone throat or something to that extent? How do you deal with that? How would you define if someone was doing that?
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 18, 2007 11:07:27 GMT -5
This makes me think about one guy that comes against us often. I'll share a little about him.
He is in his 20s. He is the son of an Assembly of God preacher. The first few times we ran across him he just mocked and got really stirred up. Then we began to see him more often. Eventually he began to bring signs out to mock us. He usually brings out a group or 2 or 3 people with him. He usually stirs up a crowd around us. Sometimes "good-ol boys" and "christians" get angry with him and some even get violent. I'll share one thing that happened with him that was funny yet sad at the same time.
They decided that instead of holding signs they would just made a wooden box with messages on it. The box was about 4ft hight and on each side they had a message on it. Our mocker, as we affectionatly call him, ended up getting really drunk this night. Usually he stays fairly sober. He thought that to mock us it would be good to stand on top of the box (remember it's 4 ft tall) and "preach." After about 10 minutes of his yelling, a couple came over to us and nicely asked, "Have you talked to him about what he is doing?" I replied that yes we have talked to him many times. They then responded, "Well, we would like to pray with him. We are going to go talk to him and see if he will let us." They were saying this in the nicest and sweetest tone imaginable. When the went over to talk to him something political came up. There were a few words about President Bush spoken. "BOOM!" I looked over and seen our mocker laying flat on his face and the box laying under him. The "sweet christian couple" wasn't sweet! The man had kicked the box out from under him! Our mocker had cut up his chin during the fall.
Ah, well, while I'm telling stories I've got to share this one. Again our mocker and his clan was out. We had left to a different location, but they stayed where they were at. Some man about 6'4" and around 260 lbs didn't like his sign. He grabbed their sign and broke it in half- it was a marker board. He was about to beat up the mocker, but the police came and broke it up. Fast forward a few months.. It turns out my pastor works with the "big guy." My pastor had been witnessing to him for awhile and the man got converted by listening to a sermon on our church's website. Isn't that great! He went from pushing people to the ground that was against the Gospel when all along he was against it in his heart and needed to get down before God.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Jan 18, 2007 11:14:45 GMT -5
Good responses. I like this forum, because I learn from those who are more experienced. Have any of you preachers ever been accused of shoving religion down someone throat or something to that extent? How do you deal with that? How would you define if someone was doing that? I just tell them to leave if they don't want to hear it. I've never seen a person leave when I say that. Then I prove my point that I'm not forcing anyone to stay. Sometimes when the say, "Open up your mind! Your so close minded!" I will respond, "You better close your mind up! You may get raped by the worlds lies!"
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 18, 2007 15:02:29 GMT -5
I can see that this could be something said by two types of people, either sinners or christians.
This is my response:
1. If from sinners:
I tell them that listening to me is totally optional. They are not forced to listen. God will not force someone to go to heaven either. If they want, they can go to hell. Besides, I'm not talking about anything of great importance, only the eternal destiny of their souls.
2. If from Christians:
What do they want us to do? Wait until sinners want to hear it? Are we to learn how to preach and what to preach from sinners? No! We must go into the highways and the byways and compell them to come in! If we are not to preach to them without their permission, are we to pray for them without their permission? Besides, I really cannot force it down their throat. All I can do is make it available to their ears. But in order for it to go down their throat, and into their heart, they must voluntarily consent. But if we do not make it available to their ears, it will never go down their throat to their heart, because faith comes by hearing.
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Post by brobreaud on Jan 18, 2007 15:04:45 GMT -5
I often say, "it's impossible to force 'religion' down anyone's throat!" I HATE "religion" by this I mean religiosity. Being from New Orleans this would mean Catholicism, candles, beads, (rosary, not Mardi Gras) ashes on your forehead on Ash Wednesday and the like. "Religion" ie. the religious Jews, put Jesus on the cross. (And I know, my sins, too) That's what 'religion' does. It kills. Like the law. Religiosity (self-righteous pride, like, "I'm a good person.") will condemn the masses.
Also, I know a street preacher in Los Angeles, when some students say, "We just ought to leave." he will say, "Yes, you all ought to leave RIGHT NOW, because the more you listen, the more responsible you will be to God." No one ever leaves.
Brobreaud
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 18, 2007 15:10:52 GMT -5
If you want to draw a crowd:
1. Be sharp
2. Be a pointy, personal
3. Name sin
4. Be contraversial
5. Be interesting
6. Hold your bible for all to see
7. Preach about judgment.
8. Preach about hell.
9. Be relavent, talk about MTV, BET, Rap, Clubs, etc etc
10. Use humor and satire.
11. Engage your audience
12. Respond to hecklers
13. Welcome public debate
14. Use signs and banners
How to preach and not draw a crowd:
1. Be dull
2. Be a soft sissy
3. Do not talk about sin
4. Be politically correct
5. Be boring
6. Do not reveal yourself as a Christian
7. Do not preach about judgment
8. Do not preach about hell
9. Not not be relavent by never talking about MTV, BET, Rap, Clubs, Holywood, etc etc
10. Do not be funny
11. Do not engage your audience
12. Ignore hecklers
13. Avoid public debate
14. Do not get peoples attention with signs and banners.
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Post by seanpayne on Jan 19, 2007 0:42:42 GMT -5
6. Hold your bible for all to see Do you look up the verses in the Bible that you may already have memorized? Do you just have the Bible with you to show your what you are representing or just for the practical use of looking up verses that are not easily remembered? I suppose I'm afraid that having one when preaching may misrepresent me as like a cult guy or something. Also I would assume you wouldnt have one when its dark outside? Any more comments on this or answers to questions on this? Thank you.
9. Not not be relavent by never talking about MTV, BET, Rap, Clubs, Holywood, etc etc What kind of things do you say about these things?
14. Use signs and banners You know anywhere where to get these? Any practical guidance on using them?
Thanks again.
Very good answers on the religion down throat thing. God bless.
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Post by josh on Jan 19, 2007 0:52:53 GMT -5
We don't use signs and banners yet God still brings a crowd. So I think adding that to the list of getting and not getting a crowd is not needed.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 19, 2007 21:04:59 GMT -5
Is our motive to go out in the streets to draw a crowd or to preach the gospel?
We use banners because they have scripture verses on them - there is power in God's Words. We don't use them to draw a crowd.
Many times we preach only a few may stop and listen, the majority of people just walk by - this doesn't discouragement me. If we have no one stop and listen and a crowd of 100 I would still rejoice.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 19, 2007 21:18:10 GMT -5
The reason we should aim at drawing a crowd, is for the purpose of preaching the gospel.
And you could draw a crowd and maybe not do any of these things. They are just things that I found to help.
We preach all the time without signs and banners and have drawn many crowds without using them. But I have noticed how people will stop and read them and how they help to make your presense known.
I simply wouldn't dare preach without a bible. What am I to preach if I am not preaching the bible? If someone asks you about the bible, your answer has more authority if you can actually read it out of the bible.
I have seen campus preachers preach without a bible. But typically it was just because they forgot. Of coarse, having one helps make it known what you represent. And it also helps when answering questions. And it seperates you from just any other open air entertainer.
I talk about the influence of these things. Gangster rap seems to be very popular on many campuses. And sometimes no crowds will gather when I preach on certain campuses, unless I start preaching against rap. Then it becomes "personal" to them.
You probably have a "signs and banners" store near you. Use stricking banners. Even shocking banners. Certainly, don't use mean or spiteful banners. But provacative or contraversial banners are good.
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Post by josh on Jan 19, 2007 23:44:55 GMT -5
Is our motive to go out in the streets to draw a crowd or to preach the gospel? We use banners because they have scripture verses on them - there is power in God's Words. We don't use them to draw a crowd. Many times we preach only a few may stop and listen, the majority of people just walk by - this doesn't discouragement me. If we have no one stop and listen and a crowd of 100 I would still rejoice. AMEN
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 20, 2007 5:36:28 GMT -5
Does this then turn into more of a debate?
Is the emphasis of preaching Christ being taken away?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 20, 2007 17:59:53 GMT -5
I do often "debate" in the open air. But not as much as Paul disputed.
Ac 17:17 - Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
But yes, we must preach Christ. But we must preach Christ in all of His offices. We must preach Him as Savior and also as Judge and also as King.
But all of these offices somehow affect sin. As the Savior, He saves us from sin. As the Judge, He judges us for sin. As the King, He reigns and rules over us.
So I talk about gangster rap, marijuanna, parties, drugs, fornication, basicly any sin that is relevant to the crowd. Because it is these sins that condemn their soul, and it is these sins that they must repent of in order to be saved.
So preaching about sins may look like it takes away from preaching Christ, but nothing could be further from the truth.
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Post by josh on Jan 21, 2007 11:35:52 GMT -5
I agree with Jesse on open air deabtes. Often I will enter into one, but everything needs to be brought back around to the cross of Christ.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 21, 2007 17:45:52 GMT -5
A student once came up to me on a campus and said, "You know, I think what you are doing is awesome. Like, yes people are arguing and debating and stuff. But it's debating about Jesus!"
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Post by Miles Lewis on Jan 22, 2007 0:12:05 GMT -5
My motive is to go out in the streets to draw a crowd to preach the Gospel to.
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