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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 26, 2007 18:43:21 GMT -5
A friend of mine posted a good question on another message board...what do you think: 2 Timothy 2:24-25 (New American Standard Bible) "24The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,"
I SEE SOME POSSIBLE STRIKES FROM THIS VERSE AGAINST THE WAY OPEN AIR GO'S DOWN;
VERSE SAYS: OPEN AIR SAYS:
-MUST NOT QUARREL -INTENTIONALLY QUARREL WITH THE HECKLER -BE KIND TO ALL -INTENTIONALLY KEEP THE HECKLER ANGRY -CORRECT WITH GENTLENESS -CORRECT WITH INTENSITY
QUESTION: I KNOW THE THREE LISTED IN THE OPEN AIR COLUMN ARE DESIGNED TO DRAW A CROWD, BUT ARE THEY BIBLICAL FOR A SERVANT OF THE LORD?
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Post by tbxi on Apr 26, 2007 19:14:45 GMT -5
I think it's a fair criticism if what has been said is true. Notice the "if".
I have not seen much OAO preaching aside from Jesse's time at Kilgore. I have seen Evan's storytelling (parable of the dormies) in the past that he has renounced, but haven't seen him since then. Haven't really seen Miles at all. So I can't say much here, but I can definitely say that no, we shouldn't be *trying* to be controversial or "shock and awe", but we should be trying to be biblical, and if that brings controversy then so be it.
Keep in mind I am not an open air preacher either, so there's an aspect that we don't have in common.
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Post by evanandliz on Apr 26, 2007 19:36:27 GMT -5
I have been convicted for some time about this very thing, but have yet to find a practical application for the aforementioned scriptures, as well as many others. But here are a few videos from this semester of my open air preaching. I have changed in my preaching VERY MUCH. I seek to bring a reverence to the gospel, and have been working on preaching more eloquently and with many illustrations from nature, and the old puritans (master preachers), as well as expounding very thoroughly upon the doctrines of salvation (propitiation, Jesus' vicarious death, the cross, and the resurrection). With the aid of the Holy Ghost I have endeavored, and will continue to preach as to bring attention to Christ. Here are a few links to some videos Jesse has put onto You Tube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa_pC42XVZUwww.youtube.com/watch?v=hePDIDt1wVA&mode=related&search=www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ThHRJqjmU8&mode=related&search=Critiques are welcomed, and encouraged. -- Evan
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 26, 2007 19:59:54 GMT -5
Great Job Evan. Keep it up!
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Post by joem on Apr 26, 2007 20:08:52 GMT -5
I think John the Baptist was probably a good open air preacher. He used a harsh tone at times, as did Elijah and others.
Matthew 3 1In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
I believe that insulting people in order to get a rise out of them is not biblical, however calling people to repentance and calling sin what it is, will sometimes mean you have to point your finger and tell them that "God hates your sin!" I try to by overly polite even to those who curse and spit on me. I often try and diffuse hecklers by letting them know I am preaching out of love for God and concern for their soul. It is a fine line that we have to be conscious of all the time.
Grace and Peace, Joe
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 26, 2007 20:23:38 GMT -5
Amen Joe...
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Post by evanandliz on Apr 26, 2007 20:24:27 GMT -5
AMEN and AMEN
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Post by bullhornbob on Apr 26, 2007 21:27:25 GMT -5
You know, Jesus was always very intentional in everything that He said and did.
I think where we as preachers can get mixed up is when we begin to do things in the flesh. Even when we attempt to adjust our message to conform to the politically (and often unbiblically) correct hearer.
I personally know that some instances that I have been in did not look good, nor sound good, but I believe my INTENTION was to glorify God, and I was motivated by love.
Who is to say when you cross the line from preaching to debating to arguing to striving? We must exercise the fruit of the Spirit, namely temperance. I think a lot of preachers simply don't know the Bible well enough to defend it soundly, so they wind up striving (see II Timothy 2:15,16,23).
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 27, 2007 23:23:03 GMT -5
Was this directed towards open air preaching in general or towards Open Air Outreach?
If towards me I welcome people to cite specific clips on Google or Youtube. The lengthy clip series at Montana I have just been watching and reviewing.
The way I see it. Paul disputed, reasoned, and persuaded. That may have looked like verbal quarreling. The servant of the Lord must certainly not physically quarrel or fight. Clearly we are to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints.
I say amen to being kind and gently correcting.
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Post by jackjackson on Apr 27, 2007 23:57:21 GMT -5
When it get down to it, we had all be able to say we were walking in the Spirit when we preached. It seems we can contend, without being contenious; our words might offend (the gospel can do that) without us being offensive in the way we present such an amazing truth.
I believe that when we go out with the motive to save souls because we love our neighbor and want to see them saved, it will come out in our preaching.
I grieve for the lost. I grieve when I see Christians backsliding. The stakes are great and life is like a vapor!
Preach on Brothers, but preach as you are lead, walking in His Spirit.
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 28, 2007 0:05:51 GMT -5
Amen Jack!
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Post by alan4jc on Apr 28, 2007 0:47:47 GMT -5
Amen Brother Jack ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 28, 2007 7:30:57 GMT -5
Was this directed towards open air preaching in general or towards Open Air Outreach? If towards me I welcome people to cite specific clips on Google or Youtube. The lengthy clip series at Montana I have just been watching and reviewing. The way I see it. Paul disputed, reasoned, and persuaded. That may have looked like verbal quarreling. The servant of the Lord must certainly not physically quarrel or fight. Clearly we are to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. I say amen to being kind and gently correcting. Actually, I think it was about you, Miles. They said something about you not being a very loving preacher.... ;D Just kidding! No, this was something someone said after watching Ray Comfort's video, Open Air A-Z. That's all...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 1, 2007 16:59:34 GMT -5
Yes Paul would "dispute" and "reason" and "persuade". In other words, he debated or argued. There is nothing wrong with that, if it is done in the right Spirit. If we are motivated by love.
Also, one of the most loving things John the Baptist did was publicly call King Herod an adulterer. It cost him his head, but no doubt John was motivated by love in the hope that Herod would repent.
We are not to physically fight or quarrel. And we are not to argue and debate in a wrong Spirit. But we must earnestly contend for the faith like Paul and John the Baptist!
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Post by bullhornbob on May 2, 2007 22:22:15 GMT -5
AMEN JESSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D (my attempt at an exaggerated and fluffy endorsement to Jesse's post)
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