|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Jun 23, 2007 18:28:26 GMT -5
2 Corinthians 5:1, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."
The flesh , this body we now reside in. The Spirit of God dwells within this fleshly tabernacle of the believers.
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Jun 23, 2007 18:31:36 GMT -5
What would you and your religion say the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross is for?
|
|
|
Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Jun 23, 2007 18:34:41 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 1:18, "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 23, 2007 18:49:45 GMT -5
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
The Lord has to return before, we receive our New Homes in Heaven. We are not there at death. Only at His second coming
The Lord build a Sanctuary to dwell with His people in the Old Testament.
Exodus 28:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
In the New Testament, the Lord wants to dwell in us: His Temple: not a earthly one, Not made with Hands. Amen
But the Bible is clear on Judgment of the Believer: before His second coming.
Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
We are not present [live] in heaven when this takes place. Our Books are open, and are lives record is reviewed.
You and I will be pulled into court, those who claim Jesus is Lord, this judgment is in our favor, to those who believe in the Finished work of Christ.
The Dead are Dead, waiting for the First or second resurrection.
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 23, 2007 19:01:35 GMT -5
What about Steven, The Bible says he is asleep waiting for His Lord. He was a righteous name full of the Holy Spirit, Ask him these questions!
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Is steven asleep in heaven? I think not
Steven is not in Heaven according to the Bible, all will appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
The Bible is true on this subject or it is not, or maybe you have been lied to by the deceiver in the World.
What about Lazarus
Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; John 11:11 but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
The Lord said, Death is Sleep!
are you going to trust the Lord, by His own lips, or the lips of preachers, not preaching the truth!
Why is not Steven in heaven praising God, or Lazarus - there covered by the Blood in faith in belief.
The Bible states these things, I am just a reporter reveling the word of God on the subject of Death, believer or unbeliever.
This subject is not hard to understand, just the teaching in churches is corrupt.
The First Angels message is to reveal to the World the Judgment is taking place.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
is come - which means past tense as to its beginning - the Judgment is currently going on in Heaven.
That is why I preach the 3 Angels message, because it is the last days gospel to the World to get the world ready for Jesus Christ return.
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 23, 2007 19:16:51 GMT -5
1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep[death is sleep], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [dead in Christ]
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [The dead did not come from heaven back into their bodies]
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This should be comfort in your ears, but they are not! WHY?
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 23, 2007 23:14:52 GMT -5
When the Dead are in the Grave, the passage of time is not known. Their next waking moment, is the coming of the Lord in the first or second resurrection.
When Steven is raised from the Dead, he will not realize the 2000 years that has elapsed. But is life will have been reviewed by the invesgative Judgment in Daniel 7:10 in corelation with Daniel 8:14.
When the Lord comes he can receive his rewards base on his faith in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jun 24, 2007 4:44:37 GMT -5
I can't vote for anything.
Christians will go to heaven and the unsaved will go to Hell.
The Lake of fire is different from Hell.
Amen! This is right on Josh!
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 24, 2007 13:45:10 GMT -5
Christians will go to heaven at the First resurrection, and the Wicked will be raised after the 1000 year reign in Heaven, to face the Judge for there Crimes.
Hell fire is not burning today, for the surface of the Earth is the location of Hellfire. Look out today, is it burning, NO!
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. This is when Hell starts, after the 1000 year reign, after the great white throne judgment.
Heaven is virtually empty today, waiting for the Lords return for the saints, which there is only One Second coming. And it will not be secret.
For the righteous and the unrighteous are in the Graves asleep, not because I say so. But because Jesus says so.
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jun 24, 2007 21:36:35 GMT -5
Not the Jesus of the Bible.
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 24, 2007 22:04:26 GMT -5
1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep[death is sleep], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. If the dead are in Heaven praising God, why does Jesus say He will bring them to God at His second coming!
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [dead in Christ]
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [The dead did not come from heaven back into their bodies]
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This should be comfort in your ears, but they are not! WHY?
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 24, 2007 22:09:06 GMT -5
Jonathon The King James Translators, used Hell for Hades or Sheol which is the grave. why? hard to say except the time the Bible was translated, that this doctrine was so driven in to there minds.
Job says:
If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in darkness.
Questions about hell? consider this... The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament: 31 times from the Hebrew “Sheol,” which means “the grave”
In the New Testament: 10 times from the Greek “Hades,” which means “the grave” 12 times from the Greek “Gehenna,” which means “a place of burning” 1 time from the Greek “Tartarus,” which means “a place of darkness”
The dead are in the graves waiting for the resurrection, first and the second. TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jun 26, 2007 3:07:32 GMT -5
1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep[death is sleep], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. If the dead are in Heaven praising God, why does Jesus say He will bring them to God at His second coming! 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [dead in Christ] 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [The dead did not come from heaven back into their bodies] 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. This should be comfort in your ears, but they are not! WHY?TrustandObey Man has a SOUL, BODY and SPIRIT! His body is in the grave, his spirit and soul go to be with the Lord! 'And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour. And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.' (Gen 35:16-18) Is that so difficult to understand? The verses which you quoted show that the BODY is in the grave!
|
|
|
Post by robdog on Jun 26, 2007 13:59:41 GMT -5
It's appointed a man once to die and after this the judgment...I say we head to the judgment seat...
|
|
|
Post by trustandobey on Jun 26, 2007 22:49:48 GMT -5
Your right! Not us personally[in person], only the Books [Daniel 7:10], with our name and all the works we did in our lives.{ecc 12:14} It is called the pre advent judgment. because when the Lord returns for us in the Grave [not in heaven], we meet Him in the air, and we receive our rewards. Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. How can this be if we have not been judged prior to his coming.
Remember the Dead in Christ rise first, we do not come out of our glorified Bodies, in heaven (with our rewards) give them up, come back into our bodies - get our rewards - and jump back into our glorified bodies and then receive immortality.
ex sample - have you ever see the film where President Kennedy was shot. In the Video he was alive then shot. Is He alive today, No! but we get to review that short scene of His life. We will be reviewed in Heaven in the same manner, only our books will stand before the Judgment seat, with every thing recorded [our thoughts] Mercy Lord!. Which is going on today! The living will be judged at the Mark of the Beast system.
TrustandObey
|
|
|
Post by matthew7 on Jul 3, 2007 18:32:22 GMT -5
Johnathan,
Gen 35:18
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin. KJV
What does the Bible say a soul is?
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV
DUST OF GROUND + BREATH OF LIFE = LIVING SOUL! 1+1=2
If you add anything to the above or take away you loose life! If you remove the dust, you die! If you remove the breath, you die!
"Her soul departed!" That is right, she is dead! The breath left her and she is no more. She is dead and waiting on the second coming of Jesus Christ!
John 5:25
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. KJV
Death is death! It does not mean you live on in some spooky spirit body hanging out skipping around the clouds of heaven playing with moon beams! Life is the dust + breath! If Rachel's soul departed then she is dead! The breath seperated from the dust of the earth (body). This means death! It is the state prior to life! Nothingness!
Since it is not possible for souls to exist outside of bodies, how do we explain this apparent (superficial) contradiction? The word "soul" is translated from the Hebrew word "nephesh" which has been translated 118 times in the Old Testament as "life." The same word is used in Genesis 1:30 in reference to animals!
Gen 1:30
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life [nephesh or breath or sometimes translated soul], I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. KJV
The word soul is never ever used even once in the entire BIBLE to mean an undying part of man! There is no such thing! We all die once but then the resurrection! The resurrection is still yet future at the second coming of Jesus Christ! 1Thess 4:16.
Gen 3:1-4 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: KJV We all have a choice to believe GOD or Satan! I choose to believe GOD! When we die we die! When the resurrection happens it will be time to stop sleeping in the dust and come forth to life eternal!
Rom 2:7
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality , eternal life: KJV
1 Cor 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality .
54 KJV
1 Tim 6:16
16 [GOD]Who only hath immortality , dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. KJV
2 Tim 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: KJV
So when do we receive eternal life! The gospel gives it to us! When do we receive it from the gospel promises?
1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. KJV
When does Jesus appear? At the second coming!!!!!! That is future!
Matthew
|
|
|
Post by matthew7 on Jul 9, 2007 14:25:21 GMT -5
My Christian brethern,
[glow=red,2,300]Can a soul die???[/glow]
Can a living soul that God made die? Satan in the garden of Eden says NO! The living God and creator of all things, Jesus Christ says YES!
Who do you believe?
The Bible is all we have to answer this question!
Gen 35:16-18
16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin. KJV
Rachel died! Why, because her breath departed! The BODY + BREATH = a living soul! If the breath departs, than the soul is no more! For a soul has body and breath! This is simple! Satan says that we live on after death in some spirit body!
Luke 24:39
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones , as ye see me have. KJV
When did Jesus go to heaven?
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not ; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. KJV
WOW what a revelation! When Jesus dies on the cross of Calvary He died! He did not go to heaven as some spooky spirit body! He died and arose, and then He went to heaven!
Did the thief on the cross go with him to heaven?
NO he did not! Why? Because Jesus did not promise him to go to heaven that day! Nor did Jesus Himself go to heaven that day! Look at what the Bible says!
Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV
Remember the punctuation is incorrect! THis is what Jesus said but the orininal Greek has no punctuation!! Jesus stated, that day, he was telling the thief, he would be with Him in paradise, sometime in the future! Jesus did not go to paradise that day! For He had not yet ascended!
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not ; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. KJV
The thief will come up out of the grave on resurrection morning, when Jesus Comes in the clouds of heaven (1 Thess 4:16) and every eye shall see Him (Rev 1:7). The thief will come out of his sleep to life eternal!
The thief is dead! He is asleep in death! His body is back to dirt and his breath is departed! He is dead!
So to answer the question do souls die? Let us see what the BIble says!
Josh 10:39-40
39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.
40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed , as the LORD God of Israel commanded. KJV
Praise the LORD for His Bible truth!
Matthew
|
|