Post by Josh Parsley on Aug 30, 2007 15:52:12 GMT -5
I found this on another message board and thought I would post.
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Is there such a thing as oringinal sin?
No.
"I object to the doctrine of constitutional sinfulness, that it makes all sin, original and actual, a mere calamity, and not a crime. For those who hold that sin is an essential part of our nature, to call it a crime, is to talk nonsense."
Charles Finney: Lectures on Systematic Theology: Lec 24 Moral Depravity
Yes.
"Sin may be summarised as threefold:
An act, the violation of, or want of obedience to the revealed will of God;
a state, absence of righteousness;
a nature, enmity toward God." C I Scofield
Yes.
"Notwithstanding the depravity of man's soul by original sin, there is yet left a basis whereon divine grace can work for its recovery by spiritual regeneration.
There is, then, besides the evil which supervenes on the soul from the intervention of the evil spirit, an antecedent, and in a certain sense natural, evil which arises from its corrupt origin. For, as we have said before, the corruption of our nature is another nature having a God and father of its own, namely the author of (that) corruption."
Tertullian 197-220 AD was one of the ante-Nicene fathers.
No.
"Paul goes on (Rom 5:12) to picture death as spreading to all men, because all men sinned. Neither the spreading of the sin nor the parallel spreading of salvation through Jesus is automatic - both involve the choice of the individuals." Roger Forster: Faith and Reason p 234
Yes
"that all who deny this, call it original sin, or by any other title, are but Heathens still, in the fundamental point which differences Heathenism from Christianity. They may, indeed, allow, that men have many vices; that some are born with us; and that, consequently, we are not born altogether so wise or so virtuous as we should be; there being few that will roundly affirm, "We are born with as much propensity to good as to evil, and that every man is, by nature, as virtuous and wise as Adam was at his creation." But here is the shibboleth: Is man by nature filled with all manner of evil? Is he void of all good? Is he wholly fallen? Is his soul totally corrupted? Or, to come back to the text, is "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil continually?" Allow this, and you are so far a Christian. Deny it, and you are but an Heathen still."
John Wesley; Sermon 44 Original Sin.
No.
YWAM espouses the moral government doctrine of the atonement and as part of that teaching and as regards sin teaches...
"1. Our moral character is shaped merely by our individual acts of sin.
2. If an individual unknowingly commits a sin, it is not a sin to that person and they will not be held to account for it by God.
3. The sin of Adam is not transmitted to us, and it would be unjust for God to pronounce us guilty because of his sin.
4. If God condemns us all because of Adam's sin, God must also save everyone because of what Christ did (Rom. 5:19). This is universalism, and therefore both parts of the argument must be wrong.
5. Our moral depravity is shaped solely by wrong and sinful choices we make."
No.
"A sinful nature is developed in our lives through habitual self-indulgence and subsequently begins to affect everything we do. . . . Thus we concur that a law or sinful nature is present but we must also see that it originated by choice. A good example of this is a junkie bound by an addiction to heroin. He cannot help put [sic] crave drugs; but its origin was in his choices."
George Otis: The God they never knew. (YWAM key spokesman)
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Is there such a thing as oringinal sin?
No.
"I object to the doctrine of constitutional sinfulness, that it makes all sin, original and actual, a mere calamity, and not a crime. For those who hold that sin is an essential part of our nature, to call it a crime, is to talk nonsense."
Charles Finney: Lectures on Systematic Theology: Lec 24 Moral Depravity
Yes.
"Sin may be summarised as threefold:
An act, the violation of, or want of obedience to the revealed will of God;
a state, absence of righteousness;
a nature, enmity toward God." C I Scofield
Yes.
"Notwithstanding the depravity of man's soul by original sin, there is yet left a basis whereon divine grace can work for its recovery by spiritual regeneration.
There is, then, besides the evil which supervenes on the soul from the intervention of the evil spirit, an antecedent, and in a certain sense natural, evil which arises from its corrupt origin. For, as we have said before, the corruption of our nature is another nature having a God and father of its own, namely the author of (that) corruption."
Tertullian 197-220 AD was one of the ante-Nicene fathers.
No.
"Paul goes on (Rom 5:12) to picture death as spreading to all men, because all men sinned. Neither the spreading of the sin nor the parallel spreading of salvation through Jesus is automatic - both involve the choice of the individuals." Roger Forster: Faith and Reason p 234
Yes
"that all who deny this, call it original sin, or by any other title, are but Heathens still, in the fundamental point which differences Heathenism from Christianity. They may, indeed, allow, that men have many vices; that some are born with us; and that, consequently, we are not born altogether so wise or so virtuous as we should be; there being few that will roundly affirm, "We are born with as much propensity to good as to evil, and that every man is, by nature, as virtuous and wise as Adam was at his creation." But here is the shibboleth: Is man by nature filled with all manner of evil? Is he void of all good? Is he wholly fallen? Is his soul totally corrupted? Or, to come back to the text, is "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil continually?" Allow this, and you are so far a Christian. Deny it, and you are but an Heathen still."
John Wesley; Sermon 44 Original Sin.
No.
YWAM espouses the moral government doctrine of the atonement and as part of that teaching and as regards sin teaches...
"1. Our moral character is shaped merely by our individual acts of sin.
2. If an individual unknowingly commits a sin, it is not a sin to that person and they will not be held to account for it by God.
3. The sin of Adam is not transmitted to us, and it would be unjust for God to pronounce us guilty because of his sin.
4. If God condemns us all because of Adam's sin, God must also save everyone because of what Christ did (Rom. 5:19). This is universalism, and therefore both parts of the argument must be wrong.
5. Our moral depravity is shaped solely by wrong and sinful choices we make."
No.
"A sinful nature is developed in our lives through habitual self-indulgence and subsequently begins to affect everything we do. . . . Thus we concur that a law or sinful nature is present but we must also see that it originated by choice. A good example of this is a junkie bound by an addiction to heroin. He cannot help put [sic] crave drugs; but its origin was in his choices."
George Otis: The God they never knew. (YWAM key spokesman)