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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jan 3, 2008 18:27:54 GMT -5
Just wanted to spark a discussion on something I've been meditating on lately and see what other's thoughts are on this subject.
I've been thinking alot lately about the sappy, softboy-sissy, creampuff pie preaching/teaching that's in the mainstream churches/denominations today. The postmodernism and humanism of the "Emergent Church."
What's the best way to counteract it? What's going to be the most productive teaching/preaching to wake up the church?
Especially to the "hard" doctrines e.g. God is angry with the wicked, the carnal mind is at enmity against God, to be a friend of the world is to be an enemy of God.
Of course, 100% scripture preached without watering it down is the best.
But how do we accurately paint the picture to the Church today that compromise in living, in teaching, in preaching is the reason for this carnal christianity, not strict morals?
Then I began to think that perhaps a good way to reason with present day humanistic church is (coupled with a holy rebuke to compromise and humanism) to expound on WHY God is angry with the wicked. WHY without holiness no man shall see the Lord. WHY to be a friend of the world is to be an enemy of God.
Thoughts? Comments?
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Post by bondslavenchrist on Jan 3, 2008 19:23:12 GMT -5
Dear Jeffrey,
Sorry, but that will only cause them to do what they can to refute whatever it is you say.
THE ONLY way touch these people is to do it the way Paul did it. By NOT relying on man's intellect, man's reasoning or anything that is man's.
ONLY by absolute submission to the HOLY SPIRIT and preaching in the POWER and the WORDS of the Holy Spirit will there be any real and lasting result.
This is no different than the modern day churches relying on their programs.
a bondslave in Christ Jesus, Dirk
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 3, 2008 22:09:05 GMT -5
I think that explaining WHY when reasoning about anything is absolute essential. On campus for example it is good to explain WHY sin is wrong, WHY there is a day of judgment, WHY hell exists, WHY they must repent, WHY they need Jesus.
Likewise, like you said, it is good to expound on WHY God is angry, WHY holiness is necessary, WHY befriending the world is wrong, etc.
This is a quote from Winkie Pratney's theological work, "The Nature & Character of God"
"Q. If God is a God of love, why does the Bible say He is 'angry with the wicked every day' (Ps 7:11)?
"A. It is perfectly possible to love and be angry at the same time. You have done it yourself if you got mad at yourself when you did something foolish or wrong. The reason you were angry with yourself was that you knew you were capable of better things, but did not do them. God is angry with the wicked every day because He knows what they are capable of and to what depth they have fallen."
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Post by Kerrigan on Jan 3, 2008 22:50:20 GMT -5
I like that answer. Thanks for sharing...
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jan 3, 2008 22:59:51 GMT -5
Yes I thought that answer makes perfect sense. The reason that God is angry with sinners is because sinners don't have to sin. God's anger is just and holy. And God desires that best for His creation and is therefore angry and grieved when His creation is unwilling to meet their full potential, when they willingly refuse to fulfill their intended purpose of existence.
Of course, that answer presupposes the freedom of the will and denies the doctrine of total inability. God is not angry with the lame for not walking, God is not angry with the crippled. God is able with the capable for being unwilling. The capabilities and potential that God gave man is the basis for God's expectation, but of course expectations leads to possible disappointment, when those potentials are not fulfilled. Disappointment is caused by expectation and expectation is based upon capabilities or potential.
Because God genuinely wants men to love and obey Him, He has given all men the genuine ability to genuinely love and obey Him. If God did not supply man with freewill, or if God did not give it back even if Adam lost it, then God must not genuinely want man to love and obey Him.
Anyways, I agree with Brother Jeff. Explaining the REASON of any statement of truth is absolutely necessary and very important. We must explain the REASON why God is angry, WHY God is grieved, WHY God is disappointment, WHY God punishes sin, etc.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jan 4, 2008 14:14:02 GMT -5
Dirk,
No doubt that we need POWER and the WORD, and I'm talking about using biblical principle and scripture about WHY - not just intellectualizing.
Many people today really and truly deny the fact that God is angry and don't think they could ever concieve of being an enemy of God. And I think the responsibility lays heavily on the Church for not reaffirming what the conscience says. And because they would rather feel warm and fuzzy and justified, they don't want to delve into WHY God could possibly be angry, disgusted, grieved, etc.
But if we use scripture and biblical principle to rebuke, teach and expound on the why's of God's character it's obviously a tool in our arsenal to strike down "imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God."
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streetfishing
Full Member
Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Posts: 138
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Post by streetfishing on Jan 8, 2008 22:03:00 GMT -5
I also have been thinking on this topic for a while. I see what kind of fruit this type of preaching is producing in today's youth. Actually it is the same fruit I see in the adults also.. While I totally agree with you all about what the message is that we need to be preaching to the church, my question is this, Not what should we preach, but how do we preach it. By this I mean, how do you reach the members and leaders of a local church with the real gospel message ? I am asking about not only my church, but other local churchs... Jim
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jan 11, 2008 15:10:07 GMT -5
Keith Daniels gives an awesome sermon on the power of prayer... In one of the illustrations, he speaks of a man who came in as a new pastor for a particular church and his first sermon was on being born again. Before he even stepped all the way down from the pulpit, several irate deacons of the church approached and rebuked him, saying something akin to, "How dare you tell us we need to be born again - we're CHRISTIANS!"
In Luke, it is prophesied that Jesus will be for the revealing of the hearts of many - when the WORD is preached, in church or out of church, no sinner or 'Christian' should have any shadow of justification left to hide in. No stone must be left unturned. What I mean is, with biblical preaching, leave them without any excuse to continue in sin, leave them without any way to logically twist scripture to make their sin or unregenerate state acceptable.
It requires wisdom and hearing from the Lord to determine what is required though; rebuke, exhortation, encouragement, teaching?
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