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Post by messengermicah on Feb 16, 2008 14:14:46 GMT -5
Be honest.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 16, 2008 21:58:58 GMT -5
I chose "I spend more time reading theology than my Bible." {Because I do both simultaneously, but the majority is theology}
In Christ Matt
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Post by Kerrigan on Feb 16, 2008 22:29:05 GMT -5
I chose I spend more time reading my Bible then Theology. To be quite honest, I haven't read very many Theology books at all. My favorite type of book to read besides my Bible is an Autobiography/Biography about a faithful saint. I almost picked "I spend more time praying then reading Theology" because that would be true as well, but I would say that I read my Bible more than praying so I picked that...
EDIT: By the way Micah, this is a good "check" for all of us. Thanks...
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Post by joem on Feb 16, 2008 22:57:18 GMT -5
The Bible, especially now that I am studying Greek again. A few hours trying to read Greek and I am ready to read an English translation all the more.
Grace and Peace, Joe
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 16, 2008 23:56:30 GMT -5
Do you have a readers edition? Or what do you use? If you don't know (you might already) there are editions that have words that are not used more than 30 times in the NT located at the bottom of the page. Also, certain readers editions have some grammatical info on words that might be difficult to parse.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 17, 2008 9:26:26 GMT -5
Joe, If you haven't heard of the below site, I think you may fall in love with it. regreek.comClick Bible, then the passage you want. If there is a word you don't know, just click (or maybe just hold your mouse over) the word. You will then get a short definition and all the parsing information!
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 17, 2008 17:32:14 GMT -5
I chose "I spend more time reading theology than my Bible." {Because I do both simultaneously, but the majority is theology} In Christ Matt I'm curious. Have you always done this? Has your theology changed much since your first year of being a Christian? (If you have been a Christian over a year... I have no idea if you have or haven't.)
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 17, 2008 19:28:03 GMT -5
I chose "I spend more time reading theology than my Bible." {Because I do both simultaneously, but the majority is theology} In Christ Matt I'm curious. Have you always done this? Has your theology changed much since your first year of being a Christian? (If you have been a Christian over a year... I have no idea if you have or haven't.) Have I always studied/read more theology then Bible? Well I don't know how you could read and study the Bible without reading/studying theology lets just put it that way. And yes my theology has changed a lot since I have come to Christ 3.1/2 years ago. The reason would be that I stopped taking what my Pastor said as infallible truth and decided to study for myself to see if what I was being taught was in fact Biblical truth. {To study/read the Bible is to study and read theology.} I'm curious as to why you ask. In Christ Matt
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 17, 2008 21:23:56 GMT -5
If you are including reading the Bible as reading theological works, then you were interpreting the original question differently. Micah was distinguishing between reading the Bible and theological works from other men. You answered that you read theology more than reading your Bible.
The reason I asked the two questions is because I was curious if someone who read more theological works than the Bible would change their theology a lot.
Now I'm not sure what your original answer is...
Do you read more theological works from men than you read the Bible? That is basically what Micah is asking. You basically replied "I read men's theological works more than God's Word." Is that true or am I misinterpreting you?
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Post by joem on Feb 17, 2008 21:29:49 GMT -5
Joe, If you haven't heard of the below site, I think you may fall in love with it. regreek.comClick Bible, then the passage you want. If there is a word you don't know, just click (or maybe just hold your mouse over) the word. You will then get a short definition and all the parsing information! Thanks Brother, this is awesome! I am studying Mounce's NT Greek course. I found that I needed to learn the English language again in order to understand the Greek, which my instructor is also helping with. In my first bout with NT Greek, I learned just enough to pronounce words and look them up in my Strong's. This time around, I hope to be able to dissect passages thoroughly and understand the dynamics without having to consult others. My Pastor is a Greek scholar, so it is easy for me to just ask him. He won't always be around, so I hope to master the language myself. Grace and peace, Joe
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 17, 2008 21:43:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I've got Mounce's textbook too. I've also got a few others. There are different teaching philosophies but Mounce's is popular. He completely separates nouns and verbs, which many grammars don't. I don't know what chapter you are on but there is a study group you can join in. They are in chapter 11 this week. Really all they do is just submit their translations from the workbook. You don't have to commit to it- you are free to join in one week and not the next. I haven't joined in on any of then yet. www.quasillum.com/ If you join the Greek list you will get e-mails from all the Greek study groups (unless you modify that option). www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/ is another mailing list. There are quite a few scholars on this list. I don't really participate in it. Many of them are out of my league, but you do pick up on some interesting stuff. I started studying about a year ago. I took a 3 or so month break to my shame, but I've been at it semi-steady since Aug. If you are ever looking for online resources let me know. I know of some other things I could direct you to if you are interested. PS. I've had to re-learn English grammar also.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 17, 2008 22:12:47 GMT -5
If you are including reading the Bible as reading theological works, then you were interpreting the original question differently. Micah was distinguishing between reading the Bible and theological works from other men. You answered that you read theology more than reading your Bible. The reason I asked the two questions is because I was curious if someone who read more theological works than the Bible would change their theology a lot. Now I'm not sure what your original answer is... Do you read more theological works from men than you read the Bible? That is basically what Micah is asking. You basically replied "I read men's theological works more than God's Word." Is that true or am I misinterpreting you? Sorry I wrongly related and limited the question to this board. So to answer the question correctly I would say that I go through seasons where I will read more commentaries then Bible and more Bible then commentaries. As to whether when I read more commentaries than Bible does it change my theology. Well I would say sometimes it evolves my theology and other times it changes my view on a certain doctrine therefore changing my theological perspective. I hope this is a satisfactory answer for your question. In Christ Matt
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Post by danlirette on Feb 21, 2008 18:55:31 GMT -5
"A man may study because his brain is hungry for knowledge, even Bible knowledge. But he prays because his soul is hungry for God." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Post by rebecca on Feb 22, 2008 8:35:19 GMT -5
I study my bible only and I do not at all study theology . Theology alone is not practical. Theology does not teach you how to be holy or more like Christ. Theology is just theology and nothing more.
Most people who study theology never talk about how they or others can be more holy or apply it to their daily lives. They are not in touch with reality or the real need which is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. These people are detached from what is real and they have created their own little theological world which is nothing more than a belief but faith without works is dead and so is theology when left alone.
I see nothing edifying that comes from those who are consumed with theology. I don't read any of the threads that have to do with theology. I just skip right over them and I will not read them. Never have , never will!
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 22, 2008 14:26:08 GMT -5
This is an honest question, since you don't read or study theology how can you assume the above?
Study the Bible to be wise; Believe it to be safe; Practice it to be holy.
In Christ Matt
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Post by danlirette on Feb 22, 2008 14:33:41 GMT -5
Theology alone is not practical. How true this is! Discipleship is following Christ, while Theology is the Study of God. Very well said! When posts contain more quotes from Finney, Olson, Spurgeon, Calvin, etc etc than from the Inspied Writers of the Word of God, it's very telling where our prioirties lay! I would say we need a balance.... and in that balance, we should take our Theological Studies from Scripture at least 90% more than from others' works, and Discipleship should be the application of our Theological Study from Scripture.
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truth2liberty
Junior Member
?God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.?
Posts: 65
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Post by truth2liberty on Feb 22, 2008 17:36:50 GMT -5
It is so easy to listen to another sermon, or go about doing this or that even busying our self with reading "theo-logical" mumbo jumbo, or force feeding another chapter of scripture.. Busying our selves like martha all the while neglecting to remember that "one Thing" is needful.. Oh the treasures of intimacy simply sitting in the presence of the Lord.
We must always remember that "One Thing" is needful.
Nothing should ever take us away from sitting at the masters feet..
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Post by rebecca on Feb 22, 2008 19:07:13 GMT -5
This is an honest question, since you don't read or study theology how can you assume the above? Study the Bible to be wise; Believe it to be safe; Practice it to be holy. In Christ Matt I have read theology in the past on other websights. Theology is just some man's synopsis of what he believes the bible says on any given subject but the bible says that if any man thinks he knows anything he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. That verse right there should cause you to want to throw every bit of theology of man you have out the window. This verse is saying just when you think you know something guess what you have more to learn brother! And we all should know that from reading the threads on this forum! If it's hard enough to get the bible into context and we know that everything in the bible is true how much more the words of a mere fallible man! I agree with what Dan said: ".......I would say we need a balance.... and in that balance, we should take our Theological Studies from Scripture at least 90% more than from others' works, and Discipleship should be the application of our Theological Study from Scripture........"
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 22, 2008 19:55:25 GMT -5
This is an honest question, since you don't read or study theology how can you assume the above? Study the Bible to be wise; Believe it to be safe; Practice it to be holy. In Christ Matt I have read theology in the past on other websights. Theology is just some man's synopsis of what he believes the bible says on any given subject but the bible says that if any man thinks he knows anything he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. That verse right there should cause you to want to throw every bit of theology of man you have out the window. This verse is saying just when you think you know something guess what you have more to learn brother! And we all should know that from reading the threads on this forum! If it's hard enough to get the bible into context and we know that everything in the bible is true how much more the words of a mere fallible man! I agree with what Dan said: ".......I would say we need a balance.... and in that balance, we should take our Theological Studies from Scripture at least 90% more than from others' works, and Discipleship should be the application of our Theological Study from Scripture........" I agree with that we should be well seasoned, but I don't think we should exclude the study of the Bible all together. (Nor condemn those who do study theology!) And yes we can't know all, I haven't even scratched the surface of knowing God and His Word for that matter. Ephesians 4:11-12(11.) And He gave some to be apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, (12.) for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ,In Christ Matt P.S: There is no such thing as a "theology of Man," but as a Christian there is the study of the nature of God.
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Post by danlirette on Feb 22, 2008 20:03:55 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a "theology of Man," but there is a theology of God. Technically, it's called "Anthropology" On a more serious note, Jesus spoke clearly about doctrines of men.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 22, 2008 20:08:28 GMT -5
Exactly, which isn't true biblical theology.
In Christ Matt
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Post by danlirette on Feb 22, 2008 20:14:01 GMT -5
Exactly, which isn't true biblical theology. In Christ Matt The doctrines of men always claim to be the doctrines of God. Thi sis why it's essential to read Scripture more than men....90% more I'd say.
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 22, 2008 20:17:54 GMT -5
Exactly, which isn't true biblical theology. In Christ Matt The doctrines of men always claim to be the doctrines of God. Thi sis why it's essential to read Scripture more than men....90% more I'd say. Common sense should tell anybody that if they are going to read another's writings that they should search the scriptures to see if it is of God. We should be reading and comparing scripture all at the same time. In Christ Matt
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Post by danlirette on Feb 22, 2008 20:21:10 GMT -5
The doctrines of men always claim to be the doctrines of God. Thi sis why it's essential to read Scripture more than men....90% more I'd say. Common sense should tell anybody that if they are going to read another's writings that they should search the scriptures to see if it is of God. We should be reading and comparing scripture all at the same time. In Christ Matt I think one should be intimate with Scripture before reading others' works. Others can deceive easily if one is not already intimate with the Word of God in one's heart. How can you know a counterfeit if you haven;t become aquainted with the True?
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mattmahar
Full Member
`Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.' John 5:14
Posts: 151
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Post by mattmahar on Feb 22, 2008 20:22:55 GMT -5
Yes when we first come to Christ we should be like newborn babes desiring the sincere milk of the word.
In Christ Matt
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Post by rebecca on Feb 22, 2008 20:29:53 GMT -5
Matt P.S: There is no such thing as a "theology of Man," but as a Christian there is the study of the nature of God. "Theology" as they call it is just the teachings of men because a man is saying "this is my interpretation of scripture." Let's be real here, theology and anthropology are just words to describe just that. But I can gaurantee you that those very same men who are in heaven right now would probably like to burn those very same books. Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 1 Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
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Post by danlirette on Feb 22, 2008 20:54:36 GMT -5
Matt P.S: There is no such thing as a "theology of Man," but as a Christian there is the study of the nature of God. "Theology" as they call it is just the teachings of men because a man is saying "this is my interpretation of scripture." Let's be real here, theology and anthropology are just words to describe just that. But I can gaurantee you that those very same men who are in heaven right now would probably like to burn those very same books. Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 1 Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. I would agree. I do tremble to think of that day and those who will stand before Him believing they were of soundness of Faith and yet He declares, "Depart from Me, ye workers of iniquity! For I never knew you!" What a dreadful day!
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Post by pete777 on Feb 26, 2008 21:00:40 GMT -5
Bible or Theology?
The issue is not Bible or Theology, but rather the Bible or Pagan traditions? Tradition is what most modern theology consists of! Finney, Calvin, are filled with tradition mixed with some truth, but to get to the truth you must allow the Bible to speak and put away all such distractions! These men were not inspired! The Bible is, and if you follow the Bible principles of interpretation, we will all agree on every point of doctrine! It is the interpretation that exposes traditions and error!
Pete
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Post by Josh Parsley on Feb 27, 2008 9:47:41 GMT -5
Hi Pete,
I'm curious, where in the Bible does it give us principles of interpretation? How do we know, from the Bible, how to interpret verses?
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Post by pete777 on Feb 27, 2008 15:22:38 GMT -5
Hello Josh!
You may of heard this all before, I can see you are well versed and have spent a lot of time in God's word, but I hope there is something new to look at or consider.
The wonderful secret of the Bible is how God constructed His word and how we are to understand it. Look at the book of Revelation, a very easy book to understand if we follow the principles of interpretation.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: KJV In Revelation in the very first verse, the book tells us the words are in sign! SIGNIFIED! Or in symbolic format! So in order to decode the message we need to define the symbols from other places in the Bible! Or even within the book itself!
FOR EXAMPLE: What does "waters" mean in the book of revelation? To most people it means "water" or liquid, but the Bible states something different.
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great sleeper that sitteth upon many waters: KJV
The sleeper of Babylon is not in the ocean, that would not make sense but what does "Waters" mean? Lets allow the Bible to define itself.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the sleeper sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. KJV
The sleeper of Babylon is therefore a system that controls a lot of people, or has influence over many people! What is the system?
The sleeper of Babylon is defined as a woman! So what does a woman mean in the Bible?
There are many references to a woman representing a church, but I will just list two.
2 Cor 11:2
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.KJV
Jer 6:2
2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman. KJV Zion = the old Jewish synagogue (church)
So in 2 cor 11:2 if a pure chaste virgin has only one husband, and that being Christ, then a sleeper must claim Christ but be fornicating (spiritually) with Satanic influences! Therefore, the sleeper of Babylon is a Christian Church in name only that is world wide (seated on many waters/people), but is in fact the antichrist system!
If we allow the Bible to speak, we will not have to do any guess work, we will just have to dig through scripture and compare scripture with scripture!
1 Cor 2:13
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.KJV
Jesus said His words are spirit and life (John 6:63), therefore we compare scripture with scripture, to understand truth. If a passage seems to contradict itself, we just have to do a thorough look at context and maybe even review the doctrinal bias we hold, which may affect our reading into a verse more than what is there or not enough.
What do you think about this issue Josh?
Pete
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