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Post by biblethumper on May 31, 2006 14:23:06 GMT -5
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 31, 2006 14:45:08 GMT -5
O P I N I O N S T O R Y RELATED LINKS » Have your say » Subscribe to Archivestuff Da Vinci Code as silly as Bible 28 May 2006 By FRANK HADEN Angry Christians demonstrating against the film version of the Dan Brown bestseller The Da Vinci Code should take a moment to wonder whether they really have anything to complain about. There is, after all, little difference in believability between the story of their own religion, based on Christ being divine, and the remarkable tale Brown tells about events that followed the execution of the all- too-mortal Jesus. The reaction to the film of the book, now the most famous in the world apart from the Bible, shows how deeply people feel their religious convictions yet how easily their faith can be unsettled. Publicity for the film artfully asks what happens if the greatest story ever told turns out to be a lie. It doesn't have to. It just turns out to have an equally unbelievable alternative. The Brown and Bible accounts are full of mysteries that require giant leaps of faith to accept them as true. There is far more detail in the New Testament version, but you still have to be a committed believer to acknowledge it as the more reliable. You must take the word of the writers of the gospels, who chronicled events that flew in the face of physical laws. Brown's version of Christianity draws on a series of coincidences, following a trail of legends that share a tenuous basis, held together by occasional citations of historical fact recorded by people who lived centuries ago. Much like the New Testament. The big difference is that Brown is here with us and can be questioned. Though he has produced a work of fiction, it retells events that could have happened, even if we lack any evidence that they did. We don't know they didn't, so the story gains all-important verisimilitude. The book, and its filmed version that opened around the world a week ago, speculatively backgrounds and amplifies a few sketchy facts about what happened when Jesus was crucified. Brown has embroidered the events into an enthralling and well-told mystery. Again, very like the New Testament. Brown works from the idea that the story of Jesus is that of an extremely wise and good man, an enlightened activist who fathered a child with his constant companion, Mary Magdalene. After his death, the pregnant Magdalene was secretly taken overseas. She ended up in the protection of a community in the south of France, where her daughter, Sarah, became the ancestor of a family line that survives today. This is the primary cause of the confrontation with the Christian establishment, says Brown. His thesis is that the Church, unable to stomach this living denial of Jesus's divinity, has fought for centuries to keep secret the story of his descendants. It is the basis of the global outrage against the film as well as the reason for the book's extraordinary success. Brown's romantic tale, never mind all the flim-flam of symbols, secret societies and general hocus- pocus that make the book and now the film entertaining, picks up the Gospel account of the placing of the crucified Jesus in the newly- built personal tomb of a disciple, Joseph of Arimathea. This worthy fellow, mentioned in all four gospels and later recognised as a saint, is on record as a rich merchant with investments scattered through the Mediterranean and even as far as lucrative tin mines he owned in Britain. At the entombment he led the small party of mourners, including Magdalene. In the story believed by committed Christians, Jesus returned to life, left the tomb and resumed a short ministry among his disciples before disappearing into the sky to join his celestial father. The devout take these allegations as confirmation that Jesus was a divine being, not just a man. In Brown's alternative scenario Joseph whisks the pregnant Magdalene away from the mortal danger she would be in if the high priests realised Jesus was to have an heir. With his wide trading connections, Joseph had no difficulty placing her with friends in France. Now, let's set the two yarns side by side, and ask which is the more likely. The only reasonable response is that they are both far- fetched. The Christian church's account of the past 2000 years is full of the most bizarre tales. There are centuries-old bottles of saintly blood that liquefy every year, dead people returning to life, walking on water, turning water into wine, turning wine into divine blood, curing the incurable, appearing in visions to a series of believers, some of whom acquired wounds in their hands and feet matching crucifixion trauma. A series of events for which there are no natural explanations are simply recorded as miracles church members must take on faith. Beside these stories, Dan Brown's ventures into supernatural excess seem almost credible. This is why Christian leaders have nothing to say, apart from futile outrage, to justify their appeals for the film to be ignored by the public. Some hope. * frankhad@xtra. co.nz From www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3682749a1861,00.html
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 31, 2006 15:30:12 GMT -5
repeat, as i have in several threads, biblethumper: have you, or any other christian on this board, actually read the book--or seen the movie?
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Post by tonyholland on May 31, 2006 15:57:39 GMT -5
repeat, as i have in several threads, biblethumper: have you, or any other christian on this board, actually read the book--or seen the movie? Both....seen the movie and read the book. Why?
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alex
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by alex on May 31, 2006 17:27:33 GMT -5
One of the most amazing claims of The Da Vinci Code is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene, and she then became the most important of the apostles. If this is true, then the New Testament cannot be trusted, and its entire inspiration is in question. Did you know that the New Testament clearly predicts what will happen at the end of this age? It says there will be earthquakes in different parts of the world, increased violence, nation rising against nation, wars, a breakdown of the institution of marriage, famines, increase in vegetarianism, outbreaks of disease, money-hungry preachers deceiving multitudes and slurring the name of Christianity, a general denial of a worldwide flood (despite the scientific evidence), and we are told that skeptics would say that these signs have always been around. Another major prediction made by the Bible is that the Jews would possess Jerusalem. They obtained it in 1967 after being without a homeland for 2,000 years, bringing into culmination all these 'signs' of the times. These fulfilled prophecies are undeniable. They prove, beyond doubt, that both the Old and New Testament are the inspired Word of God.1 Do you know what the message of the Bible is? It tells us that God is good by nature, and because of His goodness He will make sure that justice is eventually done. For example, there were more than 150,000 unsolved murders in the U.S. during the last 20 years — however, those unpunished murderers will receive justice by being sent to God's "prison" — a place called "Hell." But God is so good He will also punish rapists, thieves, liars, adulterers, blasphemers, and fornicators (those who have had sex before marriage). How will you do on Judgment Day? Ask yourself a few questions: Have you ever lied (even once) or stolen (regardless of value)? Have you ever used God’s name in vain, or had sexual thoughts about someone to whom you are not married? Have you ever hated someone? The shocking truth is that if you said yes to those questions, on Judgment Day God will see you as a lying thief . . . a blasphemer . . . an adulterer . . . and even a murderer. Jesus said, "Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart," and Scripture also says that if you hate someone, you are a murderer. This is the Bible’s warning — if God gives you justice on Judgment Day, you will end up in Hell. However, God is rich in mercy, and He made a way for you to be forgiven: "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Jesus suffered and died on the cross, taking the punishment for your sins. Then He rose from the dead and defeated death. If you repent and trust in Jesus, God will forgive you and grant you eternal life. Pray something like: "Dear God, please forgive my sins (name them). I turn from them and trust Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. In His name I pray. Amen." Then read the Bible daily and obey what you read (see John 14:21). If you choose to ignore the Bible's warning, and instead believe the fantasies of The Da Vinci Code, then be aware that you have joined the "Elvis is Alive!" crowd. You've included yourself in the ranks of the wide-eyed and faithful tabloid customers. The choice, however, is yours. It's your eternity. So think it through carefully. There's nothing more important than where you spend eternity. By the way, if you want to cash in on the $10,000 offer, go to www.TenThousandDollarOffer.com Thank you for reading this.
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 31, 2006 17:34:40 GMT -5
Judgement day? HA!
The end will come within the lifetime of Jesus's listeners.
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." -- Matthew16:28
"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." -- Luke 9:27
"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:36
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34
"Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Matthew 26:64
"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30
"And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Mark 14:62
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32
"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" -- John 21:22
We're not supposed to exist!
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 31, 2006 17:57:57 GMT -5
It's not possiblr for anyone to win that! Lol!
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Post by biblethumper on May 31, 2006 18:25:57 GMT -5
Mr.Bibleburner.... shame on you
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 1, 2006 4:15:59 GMT -5
alex, several gnostic gospels point to mary magdelene's intimacy with christ, although little of the woman is actually known. however, it was the church that accepted and rejected the gospels of its own choosing...so you are basically reading a bible strung together by men...how divinely inspired is that?
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jun 1, 2006 11:43:49 GMT -5
...I saw the movie... You have to be dumber than your $8 bag of popcorn to take that movie seriously, I don't care who you are or what kind of 'religious' background you have.
(don't get me wrong, it's very blasphemous and should be ridiculed, mocked and exposed.)
Because of all the hype, hype, hype before hand, I thought it might be a pretty legitimate adversary when preaching...It'll be like someone bringing up "National Treasure..." it most likely won't happen very much...and if it does at all...can be pretty easily ridiculed.
If anyone bases their theological and/or doctrinal beliefs from it; well.... it reminds me of a young lady on the Littlerock campus who, when confronted about sexual immorality, in an attempt to defend her sin and twisted doctrine said "Haven't you ever seen the History Channel?"
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Post by biblethumper on Jun 1, 2006 20:35:10 GMT -5
alex, several gnostic gospels point to mary magdelene's intimacy with christ, although little of the woman is actually known. however, it was the church that accepted and rejected the gospels of its own choosing...so you are basically reading a bible strung together by men...how divinely inspired is that? WOW! We have a scholar!
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 1, 2006 21:22:38 GMT -5
you do, indeed.
jeff, so you are saying that the knights templar never existed? you are saying that the gnostic gospels were never written, and that they never portrayed a pagan side to christianity?
you must be deluded...
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Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 11:14:32 GMT -5
WOW! We have a dumbass! The god you call .... what a gay name, god, actually originates from a pagan Canaanite god.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jun 2, 2006 12:48:13 GMT -5
Excuse me, everyone to whom it may apply:
While I know these discussions can evoke high emotion, or be intellectually and/or spiritually irritating or frustrating; may I ask you to please refrain from profanity and coarse talk. Also, please keep in mind the fruit of the Spirit as you debate and discuss.
Thanks!
...please continue your discussion.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 3, 2006 11:52:33 GMT -5
i didn't use profanity?
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Post by Morluna on Jun 3, 2006 15:45:54 GMT -5
What is so hard to understand about this book? There is a reason you find it in the FICTION section. It is a NOVEL. No one ever intended it to be accepted as fact. You guys seriously need to grow up. I really don't understand why the fundamentalists are so up in arms over this book/movie, or why there are innumerable books out now that refute the "claims" made by the DaVinci Code. This makes about as much sense as someone protesting against Lord of the Rings... "The claims made by LOTR are WRONG! There is no such place as Middle Earth! It's all a LIE!!!! TRust in Jesus!!!!" That's stupid. Tolkein didn't write that novel to be accepted as fact any more than Brown wrote this one to be. THey are both fictional books and should be treated as such.
I repeat: GROW UP. Honestly. There's mass genocide going on around the planet, women are being raped, children are being abused, thousands upon thousands of young people continue to be carted off to fuel the war in Iraq and elsewhere... and THIS is what you're protesting about. This sort of ridiculousness from the religious right is what sickens me about Christianity today.
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Post by elwing96 on Jun 3, 2006 16:25:55 GMT -5
AMEN Moluna!!!
There are so many horrible things going on in the world. Be happy you have the luxury to focus on something as assinine as a book/movie, which was based on forged documents (the guy who made them admitted to it). People, open a newspaper or something. There is so much in the world that is better than mindless entertainment. If you disagree with the movie, don't see it. If you don't like the premis of the book, don't read it. Stop bickering about pointless things. I'm pretty sure there's a Bible verse about that somewhere.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 3, 2006 22:38:18 GMT -5
actually, christians supported the lion, witch, and the wardrobe and the lord of the rings...yet they are works of fiction. however, when the author--himself--said it was fiction...christians still protested it.
kids these days.
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Post by Morluna on Jun 3, 2006 23:35:05 GMT -5
HSTN: Yeah, I know... silly ne? I was just making a random example. Yeah because the Chronicles of Narnia are supposed to be an allegory of the Christian faith/the story of Jesus. I don't get why they support LOTR though... was Tolkein a Christian? I forget. I know he swore up and down that it wasn't an allegory but whatever man... it screams political commentary to me to this day. He wrote half of it in the trenches of WWI... you can't tell me that there is not SOME correlation between Saruman's pursuit to destroy nature and replace it with industrialization, and the general tyrannical government represented by Sauron isn't a parallel to the worldwide political turmoil at the time. But I'm getting into English major territory now, and I risk wandering far from the topic at hand... anyway my point was that Tolkein made it perfectly clear in his preface to Lord of the Rings that it was not an allegory, religious or political or otherwise. So why do Christians support it?
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 4, 2006 9:58:39 GMT -5
christians see, hear, and do what they want. period.
morluna, i understand, do not worry...its easy to find on the web--although i am not sure for i have not checked myself (in reference to the christianity of tolkein). however, i do know outside of internet sources from my religious studies here at the university of alabama that Tolkein was indeed a christian.
in fact, it was tolkein that converted c.s. lewis.
these two writers used to be in a group called "the inklings" which was a host of men who went to particular pubs on certain nights to discuss their writings over beer, coffee, cigars (they all drank and smoke).
i believe you can still find the writings....it may be in a book called the inklings...i am not too sure, its about a journalist who takes part in some of their sessions and observes them, because obviously...they were all famous men by then.
i enjoy tolkein and lewis, believe it or not, and am especially fond of lewis who i find to be one of my favorite writers. i value his apologetics above all his writings...and i am agnostic! go figure...
anyway, yeah, i thought i would clear that up for you if you did not already find out by now.
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Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 5, 2006 19:04:53 GMT -5
The davinci code made people think... by accident im sure ... which is why there are all these protests.
But now, about that Yoda character... HE IS BLASPHEMING THE NAME OF CHRIST! THE FORCE IS NOT HOLY AND MUST BE damned!
We need to put george lucas on a trial in front of the lord and force him to realize the error of his ways.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 6, 2006 14:12:24 GMT -5
wow. haha.
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