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Post by sean on Jun 4, 2006 13:10:46 GMT -5
Feds seize 'millions' – in gospel tracts Secret Service threatens evangelist in Texas with arrest for counterfeiting Posted: June 2, 2006 7:45 p.m. Eastern
By Joseph Farah © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
WASHINGTON -- Secret Service agents today threatened a Denton, Texas, evangelist with arrest for counterfeiting and seized 8,300 gospel tracts designed as "million-dollar bills."
Three Secret Service agents visited the Great News Network offices about 1 p.m. asking staffer Tim Crawford if he was responsible for printing "the million-dollar bills."
Crawford suggested they talk to his boss, Darrel Rudus, the founder of the organization that trains evangelists from around the country in the techniques of witnessing their faith.
By telephone, Rudus offered his opinion that it was impossible to counterfeit something that wasn't real – a $1 million bill.
But the agents explained that a woman in North Carolina had attempted to deposit one of the million-dollar bills in her bank account. The address of the Great News Network was on the back, and the Secret Service went into action.
Rudus also explained that his organization had not designed the tracts. They are the work of the Living Waters Ministry of Ray Comfort in Southern California, which distributes millions of them a year.
Before he got off the phone, Rudus was convinced the agents were going to drop their demand for the Great News Network's tracts.
But later, he reports, the agents again demanded them from Crawford, threatening him with arrest for "concealing evidence." Rather than face arrest, Crawford turned over the approximately 8,300 million-dollar tracts the group had stored. The agents left a receipt and their business cards.
Ray Comfort
Comfort told WND he was stunned by the action of the Secret Service and expects agents to visit his offices soon. He said he has no plans to abandon the use of the tracts, which are among the most popular of the many his organization distributes. Living Waters is known for its television program, "The Way of the Master," and an association with actor Kirk Cameron.
"I'm not going to stop printing them," Comfort said. "How can you possibly counterfeit something that is not real – a $1 million bill?"
One side of the tract is designed like an imaginary $1 million bill. The other side has the gospel message written around the border. It also includes this message: "The million dollar question: Will you go to Heaven? Here's a quick test. Have you ever told a lie, stolen anything, or used God's name in vain? Jesus said, "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart." Have you looked with lust? Will you be guilty on Judgment Day? If you have done those things God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. The Bible warns that if you are guilty you will end up in Hell. That's not God's will. He sent His Son to suffer and die on the cross for you. Jesus took your punishment upon Himself – 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.' Then He rose from the dead and defeated death. Please, repent (turn from sin) today and trust in Jesus, and God will grant you everlasting life. Then read your Bible daily and obey it."
The tracts are also clearly marked on the front: "This bill is not legal tender."
Rudus says he won't be deterred from distributing the tracts in the future.
"Show me the law we're breaking," he told WND. "How can you counterfeit bills that do not exist?"
Rudus suspects the unknown lady in North Carolina didn't actually try to deposit the tract into her bank account.
"People drop these tracts for others to see and read," he explained. "That's the purpose of it. I have no way of knowing, but if I were going to guess, I would suggest this person just included the tract along with a deposit and someone got offended."
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 5, 2006 5:57:59 GMT -5
"people drop these tracts..."
this is called littering and is a punishable offense by fine. remember romans thirteen you silly fundamentalists.
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Post by robdog on Jun 5, 2006 10:47:20 GMT -5
Actually, it's pefectly legal to "drop" them in airports.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 5, 2006 15:16:10 GMT -5
...still littering, and stop trying to bend the rules to fit your [christian] agenda. i hate it when christians use god to justify their wrongdoings against society/man.
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Post by av1611 on Jun 6, 2006 6:39:47 GMT -5
I feel no sympathy for them, they preach a love joy peace sissified Gospel anyway, and from what I saw on the news they are breaking the law...throw the book at them! We ought to do anything for the cause of Christ, yes..but we need to obey Caesar too!
Preacher Robert Hulewicz
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Post by josh on Jun 6, 2006 7:41:14 GMT -5
I feel no sympathy for them, they preach a love joy peace sissified Gospel anyway, and from what I saw on the news they are breaking the law...throw the book at them! We ought to do anything for the cause of Christ, yes..but we need to obey Caesar too! Preacher Robert Hulewicz I have preached with a few of the GNN guys, and while I was over in the states, I didn't see any sissified gospel being preached.
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Post by av1611 on Jun 6, 2006 7:43:13 GMT -5
Fair enough, it was wrong of me to generalise like that.
Preacher Robert Hulewicz
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Post by Kerrigan on Jun 6, 2006 10:08:59 GMT -5
av1611...you seem to generalize a lot. I am a GNN guy and I personally don't think my preaching is sissified. Maybe you could take a listen to some of it and tell me how I could improve on it. By the way, how long have you been preaching for anyway? You can find plenty of my OA preaching here: pinpointevangelism.com/19.html. Please correct me if any of my preaching is sissified. I am a very teachable person...
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Post by biblethumper on Jun 6, 2006 10:55:20 GMT -5
I have to concur with RevK... His preaching is solid Gospel and he received some evengelistic training FROM GNN itself....
I direct ICM but I'm not a lone ranger; we have a general Board, so when full consensus is complete we post what we ALL believe unanimously will benefit the advancement of the Kingdom of God...
That said, RevK's material is something we're posting this week; a few videos...
The material is pure Gospel.
We may disagree on minors, but RevK's message is "Repent! The Kingdom of God is at hand!"
Amen
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 6, 2006 14:11:51 GMT -5
what do people need? love or hate?
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Post by josh on Jun 6, 2006 23:27:16 GMT -5
what do people need? love or hate? They need love, and that is why as Christians we must warn them of the wrath to come. If you saw a blind man walking towards a cliff would you warn him? Would you run over, and grab the man, and tell him of the coming fall? or would you let him walk on? Any person would warn that blind man, and they would do it out of love. Its the same when it comes to evangelism. Except this time hstn, you are the blind man, and you are walking towards the cliff of eternity, and unless you repent, and turn from your sins you will fall off that cliff, and land in hell. Mate you need to repent from your sin before its to late. You aren't assured of your next breathe, so I urge you to get right with God.
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Post by cervyy on Jun 6, 2006 23:53:27 GMT -5
Ya, but the blind dude could easily feel the ground where the cliff is ... it's tangible, going to hell ... I'm feeling around, but I can't feel it ...
Plus, give the blind some credit, they have canes and seeing eye dogs. Sheesh, making the blind seem inferior doesn't sound very nice. Oh, wait, you're "Christians." I forgot.
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Post by josh on Jun 6, 2006 23:57:51 GMT -5
Ya, but the blind dude could easily feel the ground where the cliff is ... it's tangible, going to hell ... I'm feeling around, but I can't feel it ... Plus, give the blind some credit, they have canes and seeing eye dogs. Sheesh, making the blind seem inferior doesn't sound very nice. Oh, wait, you're "Christians." I forgot. The only difference between the blind man, and you is the fact, that the blind can't see, yet you are willingly running towards hell. You have a knowledge, you are without excuse. Now the Words of Christ, ring true today as they did 2000 yrs ago when He said them "Unless you repent, you will perish". So its down to you, will you bow your knee before God, and turn from sin, or will you go on serving self?
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 0:05:08 GMT -5
If Hell is the other direction then you, then put the pop on ice Satan, I'm comin.
Sorry, but if I HAVE to choose which religion's hell I'm running towards ('cause you can't make ALL of them happy as much as I'd like to), I'll the Christian one I was raised on.
And I just put this in another post, if God comes to me and asks me to, I'd SO be on my knees for God ... hey, I'm easy, what can I say?
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 0:08:33 GMT -5
And I just put this in another post, if God comes to me and asks me to, I'd SO be on my knees for God ... hey, I'm easy, what can I say? Well to your knees then, as God has came, and commanded you to repent (Acts 17:30).
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 0:21:34 GMT -5
Ya, ummm, LIAR!!!! REPENT FOR THAT!!
God has yet to show himself to me. I know I just posted that remark and the other one where I give the little two-line conversation between me and God, plus God must be a busy Fella. But like I said, UNTIL GOD HIMSELF COMES AND ASKS ME I WILL CONTINUE TO DOUBT YOUR LIES.
Note, as much as I get tongue-tied and do the confusing speak really well, I'm more easy to understand then the Bible! Like right now. Yay for me (it's a personal vicotry. You'd understand if you tried having a verbal conversation with me).
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 0:36:57 GMT -5
Ya, ummm, LIAR!!!! REPENT FOR THAT!! God has yet to show himself to me. I know I just posted that remark and the other one where I give the little two-line conversation between me and God, plus God must be a busy Fella. But like I said, UNTIL GOD HIMSELF COMES AND ASKS ME I WILL CONTINUE TO DOUBT YOUR LIES. Well God will never come and ask you to repent, but rather He has came, and commands you to repent. ...but now commandeth all men every where to repent: - Acts 17:30b I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:3 There are two commands to repent, yet the reason you won't come to repentance is because you are in love with your sin. So mate to your knees, and repent. God has came in Jesus Christ, and the command to all men everywhere is to repent. So God has told you to turn, so its about time you do.
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 0:54:17 GMT -5
Sorry, I must have missed His coming being all NOT BORN and stuff. Damn ME for that. If God lacks the decensey (sp) to spare 30 seconds of HIS time to ask my repentence to YOUR ways shant happen. And come on, if 1000 years is nothing to Him, 30 seconds is like ... well, A HECK LESS!
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 1:48:15 GMT -5
Sorry, I must have missed His coming being all NOT BORN and stuff. d**n ME for that. If God lacks the decensey (sp) to spare 30 seconds of HIS time to ask my repentence to YOUR ways shant happen. And come on, if 1000 years is nothing to Him, 30 seconds is like ... well, A HECK LESS! You seem confused, God has given you more than 30 seconds to repent, you have had your whole life, and even now as you read these posts, God again is telling you to repent. But that is something you must do yourself, and if you harden your heart you may never have another chance.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 7, 2006 8:10:42 GMT -5
...if i witnessed a blind man walking towards a cliff, i would give him a helping hand. however, i would never yell at him. i would not say, "thirty more steps and you are doomed to hell!"
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 8:55:57 GMT -5
...if i witnessed a blind man walking towards a cliff, i would give him a helping hand. however, i would never yell at him. i would not say, "thirty more steps and you are doomed to hell!" So if you couldn't get to the blind man, you wouldn't yell? Surely as a human being you would warn him anyway you can, and if that means yelling to alarm him, then you would yell.
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 10:44:26 GMT -5
Sorry, unless God is 5 little Jack Russel Terriors, then God has not been TELLING me to repent. Only you, and you're questionable ... I smell Satan on these boards and it isn't from the World View Debating section! *coughdoctrineandtheologycough*
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 10:47:03 GMT -5
Sorry, unless God is 5 little Jack Russel Terriors, then God has not been TELLING me to repent. Only you, and you're questionable ... I smell Satan on these boards and it isn't from the World View Debating section! *coughdoctrineandtheologycough* Its God's Word that tell you to repent, pick it up and read it. Check out verses like: Luke 13:3, 13:5; Acts 17:30 Then you will see that God is commanding you to repent (2 Tim 3:16)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 7, 2006 10:50:44 GMT -5
That is wild. I really hope they don't push it and continue to print and give out these tracts until it is settled. If the secret service tells you that you are breaking the law, you are probably breaking the law. The secret service doesn't care what message is printed on the back. They only care if someone is in violation of the law. If you don't stop when the secret service tells you to stop, when do you stop?
I do think that if they take this to court they might be able to win. But if they keep printing these and giving them out, then they could get arrested for printing and distributing counterfiet money. It would look really bad in trial if they were told by the secret service to stop giving these out and printing them and they get caught continuing doing it.
I'd say, do whatever they tell you to do. If the bills need to be a little bit larger or smaller, if one side needs to be black and white, just do it. I do pray they don't push it and end up getting in serious legal problems.
There are plenty of other tracts that the secret service doesn't care about. There are plenty of other ways to reach people besides real looking million dollar bills.
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 10:54:22 GMT -5
Its God's Word that tell you to repent, pick it up and read it. Check out verses like: Luke 13:3, 13:5; Acts 17:30 Then you will see that God is commanding you to repent (2 Tim 3:16) Watch my point go VROOOOM, over yer heads ... I doubt your scriptures. I'm searching, in vain, for proof that you just can;t deny. God, appearing to me (LITERALLY) and saying something like "It'd me swell if you'd repent so you didn't go to Hell" would be JUST THE PROOF I needed. I really couldn't doubt God, but I do doubt you.
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Post by Grant on Jun 7, 2006 10:54:32 GMT -5
...if i witnessed a blind man walking towards a cliff, i would give him a helping hand. however, i would never yell at him. i would not say, "thirty more steps and you are doomed to hell!" You have kids? One of my three sons was just one step away from the street where there was a fast moving car coming... you think I politely asked him to think twice before going any further? Do you think I even CARE if he gets mad at me for my immediate response to YELL for him to STOP? If I know the danger he's in, I do everything in my power to save him from death! That is, if I love him... if I didn't do much then I wouldn't care much.
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Post by Grant on Jun 7, 2006 10:56:03 GMT -5
There are plenty of other tracts that the secret service doesn't care about. There are plenty of other ways to reach people besides real looking million dollar bills. Since Sunday, their web site states they will be 50% larger.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jun 7, 2006 11:02:52 GMT -5
That is a relief.
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Post by josh on Jun 7, 2006 11:03:42 GMT -5
Its God's Word that tell you to repent, pick it up and read it. Check out verses like: Luke 13:3, 13:5; Acts 17:30 Then you will see that God is commanding you to repent (2 Tim 3:16) Watch my point go VROOOOM, over yer heads ... I doubt your scriptures. I'm searching, in vain, for proof that you just can;t deny. God, appearing to me (LITERALLY) and saying something like "It'd me swell if you'd repent so you didn't go to Hell" would be JUST THE PROOF I needed. I really couldn't doubt God, but I do doubt you. You seek after a physical sign: A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. - Matthew 16:4 The sign that given was that of Jonah. Just like Jonah spent 3 days in the belly of a Whale, Christ spent three days in the tomb before defeating death. There is your sign. But one day, you will get to see God physically. You will stand before the Creator of the Universe, and be called to give an account of all your sins, and on that day it will be too late for you to repent. Instead you will hear these words "Depart from me, I never knew you." Then for all of eternity you will be reminded time and time again of each time that God reached out to you with the gospel, and each time you rejected it. mate, I plead with you bow your knee before God today, and forsake your sins. Flee to the Saviour for forgiveness of your sins. All I can do is keep praying for you, that you would wake up to yourself, and realise that you are headed toward a Holy God, whom you have offended by sin. Please flee from the Wrath that is to come, by throwing yourself into the mercy, and grace of the Lord Jesus.
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Post by cervyy on Jun 7, 2006 11:11:57 GMT -5
Hmm ... golly, looking at that passage makes me even more skeptical ... so, it's time for another mini-skit by Cervy!!
Christian leader: Okay, how else can we make sure to we can rope people in without ACTUALLY having to give them proof ...
Christian dude #1: Hey, let's just do what we've doing forever! As long as the Bible says it, we can simply just say it's irrefutable (sp)
Christian leader: You're a genius! God really must have blessed you with a conieving mind!
Both: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
FIN
Thank you, thank you. I know what you're going to say, how can I be so gifted with writing? It just comes so naturally. XD
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