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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 26, 2006 13:45:34 GMT -5
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 26, 2006 14:07:49 GMT -5
Darc....Brother, come on. Mr. Jones is not really the most reliable source for......well.....any information. If I remember correctly, he also thought that the government orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. He had a nifty video that explanied it, but at very best, it was biased to confirm his point of view.
He pretty much seems to be king of the conspiracy theory.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 26, 2006 14:26:39 GMT -5
Darc....Brother, come on. Mr. Jones is not really the most reliable source for......well.....any information. If I remember correctly, he also thought that the government orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. He had a nifty video that explanied it, but at very best, it was biased to confirm his point of view. He pretty much seems to be king of the conspiracy theory. So what your saying then brother is that you believe all that you're being told. Everything? Google WTC building 7 for video and take a look at the video released by the the establishment of the Pentagon. Don't take my word for it, don't take Mr. Jones' word for it but do your own research. Haven't you noticed all the changes in our country? To what end are they being made? Do you know your Bible prophecy? Why take what the establishment is telling you for gospel when they truly are antiChrist?
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 26, 2006 14:59:37 GMT -5
Ok....To even begin agreeing with this, there would be some presuppositions that I would have to have.
1) The government (I assume that is what you meant by "the establishment") is 'antichrist" Keep in mind that this is the same government that couldn't manage to get food to New Orleans for a week, when they can get it around the world in days, the same intelligence agencies that were convinced that Saddam Hussein (sp?) just had tons of WMD in his country and the same West Wing that can't seem to keep a secret if only one person knew and they locked him in a safe.
2) That "abnormal" changes are being made to the country. Are we talking about things like the Patriot Act and the phone surveillance scandal? Keep in mind that our sinister and brilliant government who managed to coordinate every detail of the 9/11 attack, couldn't even keep a phone surveillance program a secret.
3) The media is all working together. Two extreme news channels here. MSNBC who absolutely kicks the Bush administration every chance they get, and Fox News (fair and balanced, yeah right) who even found a way to make the Foley scandal to not seem quite as bad. You would like us to believe that these channels are doing this to deceive the public while they are secretly working in collusion? LOL....I'm thinking not.
4) Believe that the prophecy in the Bible is occurring around us today. I do see a great amount of prophecy being fulfilled around us, but I also think that some like to take prophecy and nail that "square peg into the round hole" I'm not saying that you are, because I have no idea what your position is on that. I'm just saying that it happens.
My consensus is this. I don't think the Government is competent enough to pull this mass deception over on the American people. At the risk of having tomatoes thrown at me, I am a registered Democrat and do not support the war in Iraq (though as former Military, I do support the troops that have no choice but to be there), or the Bush administration. Do I think they are antichrist? No, I think they are doing what they THINK is right and tripping over it all the way. Ok, sorry, didn't mean to go on a political rant, but I wanted you to understand where I am coming from.
Seriously, do you think that there would not be dozens of police, firefighters, EMT's, civilian workers, etc who were actually at the Pentagon site when it was hit wouldn't be coming forward and saying "something wasn't right"? Have they been sworn to secrecy? If they have, has that ever made any difference? The video that you make reference to (which I have seen before) is pretty simply explained.....the frame rate was too slow to pick up the airplane....it was moving pretty fast. Oh, the airplane.....where did it go? Did the government take it to a remote island and execute the passengers to cover their secret.
No I don't believe everything I see or hear. It's almost been a hobby of mine to not believe everything I hear from the West Wing for the past 6 years, but this doesn't mean that the President is sitting in the oval office hatching his next evil scheme to bring on the New World Order (another Alex Jones favorite). I tend to take both sides and go with what makes the most sense. It tickles me to no end that people will say that the extensive coverage given by various independent news sources is all a sham, but the blog that I read by the guy wearing a tin foil hat so the government can't read his brain waves has it all exactly right.
You don't have a tin foil hat....do you Darc? ;D
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Post by mahatma on Oct 26, 2006 15:54:19 GMT -5
Man...I had all this great stuff to respond to, and tonyholland totally said it all and stole my thunder. Congratulations Tony, you have won teh internets.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 28, 2006 9:02:53 GMT -5
Ya know...if you guys want to stay plugged into the system...
Have you heard of the Illuminati, the Free Masons, CFR, The Council For National Policy, Trilateral Commission, Bildiburger Conferences (sp?), Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.? If what you are listening to is the main stream media then you get what THEY want you to hear.
You can be critical about what I've put up here, but to what end? Do your own research for your own good.
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Post by tbxi on Oct 28, 2006 12:05:39 GMT -5
Ya know...if you guys want to stay plugged into the system... Have you heard of the Illuminati, the Free Masons, CFR, The Council For National Policy, Trilateral Commission, Bildiburger Conferences (sp?), Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.? If what you are listening to is the main stream media then you get what THEY want you to hear. You can be critical about what I've put up here, but to what end? Do your own research for your own good. I've heard of those things, but mostly just from the bathroom reader type books that I have sitting next to the toilet. I think that if all that stuff is really true, then there's absolutely nothing you can do about it and you are simply a pawn playing into their evil schemes... so if it really is true, what good will researching it do? What good will you be able to accomplish? Hence I don't really care about those conspiracy theories. 9/11 was not an inside job. It is utterly ridiculous and sad that so many people in this nation are caught up in these whacked-out conspiracy theories. The stuff about national ID cards is pretty serious, and that is actually going to happen soon, but that's a different story.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 28, 2006 17:45:59 GMT -5
Ya know...if you guys want to stay plugged into the system... Have you heard of the Illuminati, the Free Masons, CFR, The Council For National Policy, Trilateral Commission, Bildiburger Conferences (sp?), Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.? If what you are listening to is the main stream media then you get what THEY want you to hear. You can be critical about what I've put up here, but to what end? Do your own research for your own good. Just judging from the people that mentioned above, the extent of your research has been on the infowars website. I actually downloaded a podcast by Alex Jones yesterday and listened to it. I was pretty much just shaking my head and laughing a bit. I made a little joke to myself wondering when he was going to start talking about the CIA conspiracy to kill JFK. I kid you not, 10 minutes later they made a reference to that very thing. I thought the guy was a nut until I listened to him.....Now I KNOW he is a nut. Darc, don't get tied up in the nonsense. It is going to make people think that you are crazy, and weaken your witness. I don't agree with almost all of your posts, but I do think that you are a pretty smart guy. Be smarter than this.
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Post by mahatma on Oct 28, 2006 22:31:26 GMT -5
My grandfather, who was a devout baptist and a very wise man, had two rules for dealing with the population at large. I think they apply pretty well here.
1) People are going to believe what they want to believe 2) There's no arguing with a crazy person.
I think I will take my grandfather's advice, and let this thread rant and rave to itself. Tbxi, Tonyholland, I would suggest you do the same. I know a nut when I see one, and I can tell you for a fact you aren't going to get anywhere trying to be reasonable.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 29, 2006 15:11:25 GMT -5
Isn't it amazing. I post a link and everyboby and their granddogs want to throw me out as a nut case and say that it will hurt my witness?
Do you guys remember the Constitution? 1st Ammendment?
I haven't even said which way I believe on these issues YET you guys are ready to roast me? What's up with that? All I see and read here is nothing BUT assumptions on everyone's part. I am not going to answer any of the ridiculous rants and questions.
I forgive each one of you in the name of Jesus! The next time someone turns you down or slaps you in the face or laughs at you for your foolish witnessing of Jesus remember your own attitudes here. I'm NOT equating what I posted to witnessing for Jesus either, so if you think that, don't even go there. God Bless.
P.S. a person's attitude reflects where they stand on any given subject.
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Post by victorialewis on Oct 29, 2006 15:20:10 GMT -5
Ya know...if you guys want to stay plugged into the system... Have you heard of the Illuminati, the Free Masons, CFR, The Council For National Policy, Trilateral Commission, Bildiburger Conferences (sp?), Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.? If what you are listening to is the main stream media then you get what THEY want you to hear. You can be critical about what I've put up here, but to what end? Do your own research for your own good. I have a dear, older brother who is a Christian who unequivacally (sp??) believes in the veracity of all of the above. Sadly, he forsakes fellowship with other believers because of all of the imperfections/hypocrisies of his local church. He lacks iron sharpening iron, so I try to speak truth to him whenever we're in touch. I love him, and try to remind him of Who is actually in control. Is God sovereign, or is He not? What are our responsibilities? Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. I am concerned for anyone into these kinds of conspiracy theories because I believe that they are a big distraction from laboring for Jesus Christ.....
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Post by Josh Parsley on Oct 29, 2006 15:24:10 GMT -5
You guys better watch out... that pyrimid with the "all seeing eye" on a dollar bill doesn't mean what you think it does... I've talked to some that seem to think everything is a conspiracy.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 29, 2006 22:05:21 GMT -5
Ya know...if you guys want to stay plugged into the system... Have you heard of the Illuminati, the Free Masons, CFR, The Council For National Policy, Trilateral Commission, Bildiburger Conferences (sp?), Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.? If what you are listening to is the main stream media then you get what THEY want you to hear. You can be critical about what I've put up here, but to what end? Do your own research for your own good. Darc, I think you made it pretty clear where you stand. If you didn't buy into this stuff, you could have easily said so. I'm guessing that you don't believe EVERY piece of the information found on the infowars website, but the 9/11 one is pretty bad. I don't think anyone is trying to "roast you up". It's just discouraging to see anyone get caught up in the current of this type of thing. Does it hurt your witness? On the streets, probably not (assuming that you aren't talking about this stuff along with presenting the gospel) but it certainly could to a person that you have a relationship with. If we have it wrong, than by all means tell us. We would certainly worry a lot less. I'm not sure why you would not want to respond though, if you feel that we are misrepresenting your position.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 30, 2006 15:24:43 GMT -5
This is what I believe about such things. The Bible exhorts and tells us to test all spirits, to be wise as serpents and continually be on guard because the devil is roaming about seeking who he can devour. For any Christian to go along with the masses and not question but to believe that all they are being told is true is to be set up to be masterfully deceived. Think it can't happen?
2 Peter 3:17 "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."
We are given a same kind of warning in 1 Cor 10.
This does NOT hurt my witness. Being a critical thinker is actually Biblical as I've pointed out above. Being wary in this cursed age is a safeguard for my soul and yours for that matter. What I will say in answer to your statement "I'm guessing that you don't believe EVERY piece of the information found on the infowars website" is that I DON'T BELIEVE everything I hear in the mass media. They are not Christian. IF you know and understand Bible prophecy then you'll understand that we ARE marching toward a new world order, a one world government void of God. This however DOESN'T mean I believe everything on ANYONE'S website. I test it ALL. The only thing I trust a 100% is the Word of God. I serve God first. I trust Him to help me through whatever is to come. He is my ONLY HOPE.
This is what I will say to whoever said something about me saying something about this when I am out evangelizing as being wrong or that you were concerned. To have knowledge of some sort of truth even though it contradicts what the majority believes and NOT say anything is wrong. I use this as my standard...
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 30, 2006 15:50:57 GMT -5
Well, ok....but I don't think you ever said what you believed on these issues (9/11--Illumanati--NWO---etc. This is what I will say to whoever said something about me saying something about this when I am out evangelizing as being wrong or that you were concerned. To have knowledge of some sort of truth even though it contradicts what the majority believes and NOT say anything is wrong. I use this as my standard... 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.I don't understand what you are saying here. I'll just ask a direct question. Do you, while preaching/witnessing/etc. Bring up things like the 9/11 conspiracy and the government's role in it?
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 30, 2006 19:40:55 GMT -5
This is what I will say to whoever said something about me saying something about this when I am out evangelizing as being wrong or that you were concerned. To have knowledge of some sort of truth even though it contradicts what the majority believes and NOT say anything is wrong. I use this as my standard... 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.I don't understand what you are saying here. I'll just ask a direct question. Do you, while preaching/witnessing/etc. Bring up things like the 9/11 conspiracy and the government's role in it? What I'm saying Tony is: if your following the majority you're NOT following Jesus. Jesus said only a few would enter into final salvation but many would try(Luke 13:23-24). The answer to your question is no. That would counterproductive and antiScriptural. The Gospel of Jesus has enough enemies already. But that is not to say it doesn't come up from time to time while I'm out there, which has produced some very good conversations with Christians.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 30, 2006 20:18:01 GMT -5
Humbly, I'm afraid that this is a misuse of scripture. Clearly, Jesus was talking about salvation and how few would see it (which you did say). It appears that you are trying to apply it for more than it was intended. Clearly Christians are set apart in the world, but I don't see where Jesus was saying if you agree with the majority on various issues that you aren't saved. That would be nothing more than taking a contrary position to everything that you came accross for the sake of doing nothing more than being contrary.
I'll say again, I realize that we are to be set apart, have different desires and behavior, and be willing to stand up for the God who gave us life and His Son, but we are also to live in the world as sound minded witnesses of Christ Jesus.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 31, 2006 0:50:52 GMT -5
Humbly, I'm afraid that this is a misuse of scripture. Clearly, Jesus was talking about salvation and how few would see it (which you did say). It appears that you are trying to apply it for more than it was intended. Clearly Christians are set apart in the world, but I don't see where Jesus was saying if you agree with the majority on various issues that you aren't saved. That would be nothing more than taking a contrary position to everything that you came across for the sake of doing nothing more than being contrary. I'll say again, I realize that we are to be set apart, have different desires and behavior, and be willing to stand up for the God who gave us life and His Son, but we are also to live in the world as sound minded witnesses of Christ Jesus. You'll have to show me how it is a misuse of scripture? I'm talking about salvation Tony. How many luke warm Christians do you know? I know of quite a few. Why? Most have bought into the lie of the world that says you don't have to be set apart to be a Christian and yet it is commanded of us. "Christians" have gotten comfortable with the world around them because they are listening to the world around them instead of reading the Word, meditating on the Word, memorizing the Word and preaching the Word to a lost and dying world. The "church" is in bed with the world, following the ways of the world. This is due in a large degree to Christians being too much in the world, coming from being "plugged into" the world. If a Christian spends more time listening to worldly news, sports shows, movies, papers magazines, etc., etc. than they do in the Word or doing the Word then they are more than likely following the world and not the Lord Jesus. How could they not be with as much of their time wasted on worldly passions? The majority of "Christians" in our day have NEVER witnessed, not once and they think nothing of friends and loved ones dying and slipping off into an eternity in HELL! They have been lulled to sleep by the enemy of their soul. The WORLDLY system around us is controlled by the Devil Tony. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (NIV) 1 John 5:19And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. (KJV) 1 John 5:19You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
(NIV) James 4:4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (KJV) James 4:4Christians 100 or 200 years ago didn't have to contend with all this mass media for their time in God's Word and doing God's work. The church is dead asleep and I'm afraid that if we are the last generation that the majority of "Christians" will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth. We know that the world is under the control of Satan and that we live in a cursed age, or at least we should be aware of this. Knowing this and the fact that Satan is the father of lies and a master deceiver why would any Christian brother or sister choose to listen to the World and it's mass media system? Why Tony? Do you actually believe it's harmless to expose yourself to something so vile and antichrist? If you or any Christian believes they are safe and can't be deceived then I would exhort you to reread the NT and adjust accordingly. This is not a game and the stakes couldn't be higher.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 31, 2006 11:29:35 GMT -5
I don't think that I disagreed with anything that you wrote in this last post, but it appears to me to be off the subject. I thought we were still talking about what I label as conspiracy theories (9/11, NWO, etc)
Is Mass Media harmful? I think that overloading ourselves with anything is unbeneficial as the time we spend on that is less time we are spending focused on God. I certainly don't think that is limited to mass media though. It's also pretty easy to fall into the ditch of being, "Anti-World". Being contrary to the world is not neccesarily a service to the Lord.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Oct 31, 2006 14:25:27 GMT -5
I don't think that I disagreed with anything that you wrote in this last post, but it appears to me to be off the subject. I thought we were still talking about what I label as conspiracy theories (9/11, NWO, etc) Is Mass Media harmful? I think that overloading ourselves with anything is unbeneficial as the time we spend on that is less time we are spending focused on God. I certainly don't think that is limited to mass media though. It's also pretty easy to fall into the ditch of being, "Anti-World". Being contrary to the world is not neccesarily a service to the Lord. But what do you say about 1 John 2:15-16 in light of your last statements? 15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.this then coupled with James 4:4 and 1 John 5:19 is a pretty clear picture of the way we are to view this world we live in. How this comes into play regarding 9/11 and the NWO is our focus is to be on heavenly things because this world IS NOT our home. The entire thing about conspiracy theories is this, as I pointed out before, we live in a world controlled by Satan and the powers and principalities and we must be on guard and part of that is recognizing that the mass media, if it is not for Jesus Christ then it is antichrist and we must question everything for our own spiritual well being. If you're wanting to pin me down on something then just ask. I pretty much go contrary to popular belief with regard to mass media and a whole slew of things.
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Post by tonyholland on Oct 31, 2006 17:07:25 GMT -5
Ok, so if I understand your application correctly, anything in this world that is not of God is of Satan....No exception.
So it would appear that Taco Bell is not neccesarily a establishment of God, therfore it is antichrist?
The verses that you listed above are certainly solid, but it would appear that it was sin and rebellion of the world that was being discussed, not every single thing in it.
For example, if I say, "Darc, the bridge is out", this doesn't neccesarily mean that the bridge is utterly destroyed, just that there is probably a large hole in the middle of it. The world certainly is a place filled with sin and temptation, but this also doesn't mean that everything is designed to be "out to get" Christians.
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Post by victorialewis on Oct 31, 2006 21:26:05 GMT -5
Actually Darc, after reading your last post, I believe I have a better understanding of where you're coming from. I know people probably think that I see the enemy in much of this world. (which I do) So I apologize for insinuating that you were off your rocker, or words to that effect. You are correct about testing everything in light of Scripture....
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on Nov 4, 2006 18:28:13 GMT -5
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Post by oap001 on Nov 4, 2006 20:54:05 GMT -5
"Their script is now written, subject only to last minute editing and stage-directions. The stage itself, albeit as yet in darkness, is almost ready... The last-minute, walk-on parts are even now being filled. Most of the main actors... have already taken up their roles. Soon it will be time for them to come on stage, ready for the curtain to rise.
The time for action will have come."
(From "The Armageddon Script", by Peter LeMesurier, St. Martin's Press, 1982, New York, N.Y., pp. 252.)
If the Messiah is to appear, then he must be produced. And producing the Messiah ... is just as much a function of humanity as of Divinity ... There are doubtless many Jews ... who will be willing to regard him as their long-awaited Messiah. Some Muslims may take a similar view ... it may be possible for the New David to ride into Jerusalem in all his resplendent majesty. Note the word 'ride' ... on a donkey as predicted in Zechariah 9:9 ... it would seem advisable for the new Messiah to repeat it, donkey and all ... The processional route will, of course, lie directly across the Kidron ravine, as close as possible to the Temple Mount ... he must be duly enthroned and anointed with oil (in token of Psalm 45:6-7) amid the rubble of the dome of the Rock ..." ["The Armageddon Script" , p. 233-35]
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Post by dale on Nov 4, 2006 21:58:34 GMT -5
Well I hope you are right, Patriot and jesus does come backl soon, because at least the rest of us will be rid of YOU
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Post by oap001 on Nov 4, 2006 22:30:36 GMT -5
Thats right you old fool...you'll be stuck with your father, who is the father of lies.
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Post by Peter Fox on Nov 5, 2006 14:47:21 GMT -5
I just had to chime in on this one. ;D To answer the original question posed: I think I would have to answer.....Satan. After all, he is the "...god of this world..." (2 Cor. 4:4) It has always troubled me when professing Christians refuse to see facts laid before them and continue to deny obvious truth regarding those facts. Mention has been made placing "conspiracy theories" in a negative light. However, a cursory search of our Bibles shows a whole slew of them, the first being in the garden of Eden. If anyone believes that Satan has ceased conspiring towards God and His people, you are sorely deceived. Speaking specifically regarding Alex Jones, I do not know him personally. I would hazard a guess that no one on this forum does either. That being said, the truth is not dependant upon it's deliverer. Alex Jones may be a quack in need of serious medication, I don't know. But the truth is what it is. The facts are what they are, and we should examine them in light of scripture. This same principle of analysis can be applied to the "Creation vs. Evolution" debate. We all have the same facts and evidences. How is it that two people with the same facts can come to an entirely opposite conclusion as to the origins of the universe? Going back to "conspiracy theories," it is my view that depending on which foundation you are starting from (ie. a Biblical Worldview or a Secular/Humanist Worldview) you will come to very different conclusions regarding the same facts. At least that's how I see it. Take it for what it is worth.
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Post by dale on Nov 5, 2006 16:19:47 GMT -5
Like I said Patriot, it is because of people like YOU that I have such a negative opinion of your religion. If the rapture , then good riddance to you. I'd sooner take my chances down here. Santucho. Payoso . Tonto!
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Post by oap001 on Nov 5, 2006 19:20:14 GMT -5
It's between you and God Dale.
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