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Post by alan4jc on Jan 23, 2007 15:04:58 GMT -5
Kent Hovind sentenced to 10 years in prison. Waiting for his wifes sentencing. Thoughts
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 23, 2007 17:02:23 GMT -5
Think it is fair. Not sure how this sentance compares to others convicted of the same thing, but he could have gotten a lot heavier sentence.
Break the law, go to jail.....simple as that.
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Post by tbxi on Jan 23, 2007 17:05:33 GMT -5
Think it is fair. Not sure how this sentance compares to others convicted of the same thing, but he could have gotten a lot heavier sentence. Break the law, go to jail.....simple as that.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Jan 23, 2007 17:17:16 GMT -5
Kent Hovind sentenced to 10 years in prison. Waiting for his wifes sentencing. Thoughts Where did you get this info?
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Post by Miles Lewis on Jan 24, 2007 6:25:32 GMT -5
Is there chances of getting out in like 5 or anything like that?
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Post by josh on Jan 24, 2007 6:49:20 GMT -5
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 24, 2007 9:05:13 GMT -5
I thought this was a interesting quote from Mr. Hovind
It would appear that there has been a attitiude change from defiance against the IRS to compliance if he didn't have to go to jail.
I would think very differently on this if Mr. Hovind missed a year on his taxes and the IRS immediatley filed charges. This would be classic persecution. The reality is that the IRS tried to get him to comply with the tax code for years before this finally happened. I feel sorry for the guy, but he did this himself. The fact that he is a Christian doesn't mean he can ignore man's laws and claim he is ONLY subject to God. If he feels that strongly about it, he would happily accept the punishment that was given to him and certainly wouldn't hint that OTHERS would pay this debt that he claims is unjust.
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Post by mahatma on Jan 24, 2007 10:25:32 GMT -5
I thought this was a interesting quote from Mr. Hovind It would appear that there has been a attitiude change from defiance against the IRS to compliance if he didn't have to go to jail. I would think very differently on this if Mr. Hovind missed a year on his taxes and the IRS immediatley filed charges. This would be classic persecution. The reality is that the IRS tried to get him to comply with the tax code for years before this finally happened. I feel sorry for the guy, but he did this himself. The fact that he is a Christian doesn't mean he can ignore man's laws and claim he is ONLY subject to God. If he feels that strongly about it, he would happily accept the punishment that was given to him and certainly wouldn't hint that OTHERS would pay this debt that he claims is unjust. I think you hit the nail on the head. Every time I read another article about him I feel more certain he's just another guy trying to take advantage of people who believe in him, rather than a good man.
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Post by robdog on Jan 24, 2007 12:46:44 GMT -5
Render unto Caesar...
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Post by racward on Jan 24, 2007 13:12:25 GMT -5
you can only break the law for so long and claim to be a christian before your exposed and all of the bad street preachers like the criminal because he calls people stupid and insults people well guess what he got exactly what he sowed and now hes behind bars so maybe you should think about who you support next time
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Post by eric on Jan 24, 2007 14:40:32 GMT -5
Think it is fair. Not sure how this sentance compares to others convicted of the same thing, but he could have gotten a lot heavier sentence. Break the law, go to jail.....simple as that. SHOW ME THE LAW!!! Here we go again... If you are going to state that Hovind broke the law, then show me the law he broke. www.freedomtofascism.com
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Post by mahatma on Jan 24, 2007 14:42:49 GMT -5
The US tax code? (but yeah, here we go again...this ground's been covered before) Edit: From wikipedia ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_fascism) That is to say, a law was passed by Congress, and the Executive branch then decided how that law was applied. The fact that the specifics of the implementation were spelled out in a regulation rather than a statute does not invalidate either the regulation or the statute.
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 24, 2007 15:53:47 GMT -5
I had posted this on another thread for you some time ago. Yes, we must pay taxes.
You know though, this wasn't just "ministry taxes" He didn't pay taxes for his employees at the amusement park, nor did he file PERSONAL income tax returns. I can understand the debate on whether a ministry has to pay taxes (though there is little debate if the ministry elected not to be 501 (c)3) but there is no getting around doing your own personal tax returns just like every other american has to do.
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Post by cervyy on Jan 24, 2007 15:58:32 GMT -5
Is there chances of getting out in like 5 or anything like that? ] I would imagine you WOULDN'T want him back out "helping" your side. Look at how credible you made you "Christians" look with this whole fiasco!
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Post by drenz777 on Jan 24, 2007 16:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 24, 2007 16:59:50 GMT -5
Doug, again, I feel sorry for the guy....but the responsibility of making sure he was in compliance fall squarely on his shoulders. I can hardly read a article and determine that it is the full and entire truth regarding the matter. It is (as is the website from which it came) obviously slanted towards creating a emotional charged response from the reader. I know from experience (after running into some tax trouble myself some years ago) that a person can go the IRS office and they will sit down and go through everything that they can with you. Yes, their front end tactics are pretty extreme and uncalled for (freezing bank accounts, picking up cars, etc) but once you are working with them they are more than cooperative. I'm sorry, but sending letters and assuming that no response meant, no further action needed to be taken doesn't fly. We have civil responsibilities....One of them is to pay taxes. I have nothing against Mr. Hovind's ministry ( I really like parts of it) nor do I wish to see him in any discomfort, but I just don't understand why some feel that they are "exempt" from paying taxes because they feel that they have become interpeters of the Constitution.
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Post by eric on Jan 25, 2007 7:55:50 GMT -5
Alright, Alright... so there are laws in place.
I still think it is unconstitutional to pay INCOME tax! Other taxes have always been paid.
Solution= Do not get a SSN when your born.
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 25, 2007 9:16:46 GMT -5
I still think it is unconstitutional to pay INCOME tax! Other taxes have always been paid. Why? The 16th amendment is clear on this. I can understand thinking that it's not right to pay income tax (I certainly have had that feeling more than once) but it can't really be considered unconstitutional when their is a constitutional amendment that addresses it.
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Post by eric on Jan 25, 2007 10:37:52 GMT -5
Alright, alright... It all belongs to God anyways! If you give enough to church and have kids regularly, you will never owe any Federal income tax anyways... Praise God! Unless the democrats ruin that...
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Post by cervyy on Jan 25, 2007 16:28:54 GMT -5
If you give enough to church and have kids regularly, you will never owe any Federal income tax anyways... Praise God! Unless the democrats ruin that... Yes, watch out. All us Democrats are evil like that.
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Post by oap001 on Jan 25, 2007 18:57:57 GMT -5
Tax Protester Exposes Federal Government Fraud Ed Brown vows to "live free or die"
Steve Watson & Alex jones Infowars.net Thursday, January 25, 2007
Alex Jones was joined on air yesterday (MP3) by Ed Brown to discuss his ongoing case to fight charges of tax evasion. Mr Brown and his wife have not filed or paid federal income taxes since 1997, citing the fact that there is no law that stipulates American citizens have to pay income taxes. Prosecutors claim (based upon arbitrary figures provided by the IRS) that the couple "owes" $625,000 in taxes. A jury agreed in court on Thursday the 18th of January.
Mr Brown described the actions of the authorities against him over the past two years:
"We thought they'd be here ten years ago, they came in ten years later in November of 2004. They arrived with twenty-eight approximate personel. Twenty of them were CID, IRS, two US Marshals and one postal officer. They had up on the hill a sniper with three observers, two state troopers backing them up behind them and one state trooper across the street. Everybody was armed and everybody had body armour.
We were waiting for them to do this because we already knew there was no law for the tax, but we couldn't just go in there and sue them, it wouldn't work, the courts would just dismiss it."
The authorities entered his property, questioned Brown and downloaded information from his computer.
Following these actions, Brown filed a tort against four officials that were in charge of the operation he described. It was turned over to the United States district court who in turn transferred the case to the federal court. Mr Brown notified them that there was no federal jurisdiction involved in the case. Eventually the case was dismissed and six months later Brown says he was arrested and physically assaulted by police officers.
Brown was not served with an arrest warrant, was not given any counsel and was unlawfully dragged away and thrown into a holding cell. Brown was then hauled before a United States district Judge who proceeded to serve him with papers. The judge asked Brown how he pleaded, whilst Brown was still unaware of what it was he was being charged with.
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After a court appointed attorney pleaded not guilty without any consultation with Mr Brown, he was then told that he could not be released unless he turned over the firearms he keeps at home. Brown relented and allowed the authorities to take the guns from his house, an opportunity they seized upon as an excuse to raid Brown's house and take anything they could find.
Mr. Brown’s wife, Elaine, was convicted Jan. 18 as well. Both are due to be sentenced April 24.
Mr. Brown had been in court with Mrs. Brown Jan. 9-11 but stopped attending on the grounds that the process seemed like a “kangaroo court” in which Judge McAuliffe obstructed him from bringing in the evidence and/or witnesses to argue his point that there is no law requiring payment of an unapportioned direct tax, such as the federal income tax, on the labor of American workers, including he and his wife.
As American Free Press has reported:
The judge’s decision to disallow evidence and witnesses for the defendants—along with his notes to the jury that he would not allow Mr. Brown to try and persuade the jurors on the validity of his claims that there is no law requiring payment of income tax on labor—are examples cited by those in the national movement to pass ballot initiatives to reign in judicial corruption. These advocates say it is just such an apparent violation of due process that creates the need for these initiatives.
Mr Brown cited Aaron Russo's recent massive hit film, America: Freedom to Fascism, as an important expose that has focused a great deal more attention on his own case and the unlawful income tax system. The film has exploded back into the google video top 20 as a result of the media coverage of Brown's case. In recent developments Mr Brown agreed to let Fox news conduct an interview in his home on the proviso that the reporters sit down with him and watch the entirety of Russo's film.
Russo expertly exposes the traitorous Federal Reserve Act and the fact that there is no law that stipulates American citizens have to pay income taxes. The ratification of the 16th amendment, also known as the "Tax amendment", represents a fundamental undermining of Constitutional law in America. It is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the American people by the elite private banking institutions that have usurped government as an arm of their overall control mechanism.
Russo presents interviews with an impressive range of government officials, IRS special agents , FBI officers, Politicians and tax attorneys who have researched and subsequently campaigned against the Federal Reserve Act and thus reveals why the IRS is an illegal foundation.
The income tax does not meet either criteria of Constitutionally legal taxation in America, that is direct apportioned tax or indirect uniform tax. The IRS claims that the 16th Amendment allowed for a third form of taxation, however, the supreme court ruling on the amendment states that it allows for no new forms of taxation. More supreme court cases in the same period confirm the same conclusion. The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax. While the
AP have described Ed Brown as being "holed up" and "barricaded" in his "compound" like some kind of dangerous extremist, he is in fact simply refusing to leave his house. Friends and well wishers have been gathering to support Mr Brown at his home in New Hampshire. He expects that federal agents will wait until the media coverage of his case has died down before attempting to forcibly enter his home to arrest him.
“Live free or die.” Brown told listeners as he declared he was a man of the creator and the slave of no man.
Related: Tax Resister Ed Brown in His Own Words
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Post by shetani on Jan 25, 2007 19:30:34 GMT -5
Anything to protect your widdle Krischun buddies, man. If it had been a pro-choice leader getting busted for tax fraud, there would be no discussion. You numbnuts would probably be throwing a party - no booze, music, or dancing, of course.
Jesse once said that the bible commands us to follow the laws of the land. Did Dr. Watched-Jurassic-Park-One-Too-Many-Times commit a sin, or what?
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Post by oap001 on Jan 25, 2007 20:02:50 GMT -5
We are to obey God's law. When man's law would cause us to violate God's law we are obey God. And no shetani I would not be happy or rejoicing if you got thrown in jail.
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 26, 2007 9:49:23 GMT -5
Russo's arguments have been pretty much dismantled. It was interesting that he states that he has undeniably proved that we don't have to pay taxes legally in his movie, but refused to discuss the fact that he has many tax liens against him now. He stated that they were not relevent to his presentation.
American citizens must pay taxes.
As far as Mr Brown.......I don't know. Of course the author of the article immediatley makes me suspicious, but even if I sat that aside, as a reader I would be thinking......maybe there is more to the story. Can't say for sure though....I wasn't there.
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Post by tonyholland on Jan 26, 2007 9:54:47 GMT -5
I thought this guy sounded familar. Here is a news story with just a tad more detail. He doesn't seem quite the poor innocent victim that Jones made him out to be......I mean really, who has a watchtower built onto their house. Here is the story www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244759,00.html
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