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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 18:46:45 GMT -5
Straw-man and Straw-mans friend, If you guys are from GNN, you are going against their wishes (or policy) by coming on these boards.
The official OAO teaching of holiness is: (By sinless perfection, we mean the turning from all KNOWN sin. Not the inability to sin, but the ability not to sin. That is the Open Air Outreach view of holiness)
We believe a Christian can sin but that he doesn't have to sin. If he sins he must repent or he will become a backslider or a hypocrite. And backsliders and hypocrites will go to hell.
I believed in this type of complete repentance from the moment I got saved. I read my bible and believed it and lived it. I didn't understand it all but I stood on it all. I couldn't always perfectly explain it, I have gotten better at that, but I always believed it from when I got saved.
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Post by GNN Member on Apr 5, 2006 19:07:27 GMT -5
Jesse, I don't think that GNN would mind me being on here if we are defending them from slander. Maybe I am wrong. It seems like you are using the same thing, "Straw Man", against them that you are accusing them of using against you. It seems as though you are slandering them as well. Wouldn't you call this hypocrisy, since you are doing to them what you are accusing them of doing to you? Wouldn't that be sin as well? That sounds like something you are aware of and therefore need to repent of. Could this be a flaw in your theology?
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Tony Cruz
Full Member
Be on fire for God and people will come out to see you burn!
Posts: 107
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Post by Tony Cruz on Apr 5, 2006 19:09:23 GMT -5
would some one tell me what a "straw-man"is?
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Post by Rodgers on Apr 5, 2006 19:09:40 GMT -5
Maybe we should take a deep breath and read the book of Acts and then ask ourselves an honest question. What did the Apostles preach and how did they preach? Surely if GNN is of God we will see there methods found in the book of Acts; along with their doctrine. Last time I read the book of acts I did not see Paul giving people dollars for answering a bible trivia question right. But I could be wrong.
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 5, 2006 19:11:54 GMT -5
Tony, the reason I will not try to defend myself against their accusations is because in the past when I have done that they have twisted it around to try and make me look even worse then I did in the beginning. I have found it best not to do anything at all. They have created a straw-man figure that is spiteful, angry, and selfishly does unbiblically things to draw crowds in the open air. Because I am not that straw-man, I do not have to respond to those accusations. I commit myself to the judgment of the Lord. But they have made it very clear that one of their main issues with Open Air Outreach is that we preach holiness. Miles Lewis was just banned from GNN because he travels with OAO and we preach holiness. GNN has taken an official doctrinal stance against the message of holiness. They say the message of holiness is unbiblical and that telling a non-Christian that they need to turn from all their sin is like speaking a foreign language to them and is unreasonable. I do not see how you could preach the gospel without telling someone they needed to turn from all known sin. But this I know, there is no pregnancy without pain. Open Air Outreach has been birthed in affliction - brought forth in agony from the onset. Since the open air team has been full-time we have been opposed by the world and even betrayed by our own brethren. But the truth of God is marching on. When you take a stand for heaven you can expect all of hell to come out against you. God will take you through the fire but he'll make you a better man for it. It doesn't matter who is against you if God be for you. It doesn't matter what men say about you, only what God says matters. At times it will hurt, but you'll live. You will recieve wounds, but you'll survive. So serve the Lord in love and faithfulness. Preach the bible as it is found in the bible. Keep marching even when you have to go up hill. Keep going on even when it's against the tide. Put your hand to the plow and never look back. And in the end, the eternal rewards far surpass the earthly suffering. Hey Bro....I don't know. You guys on the board run theological circles around me, but it doesn't seem that the viewpoints are "that" far apart. There just seems to be a deeper issue here that sounds much more personal than anyone might want to admit. Of course I have no idea what it would be, but if it is so, Brother, head back to the negotiating table with these guys, if not for your own relationship with them, than for the relationships of those who love both of these Ministries. I don't think I have ever read anything that you wrote, or heard you say that anything that GNN does is unbiblical. If that statement is true than the opportunity for reconcilliation remains. Blessings and love all three of you guys!!!
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Tony Cruz
Full Member
Be on fire for God and people will come out to see you burn!
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Post by Tony Cruz on Apr 5, 2006 19:17:14 GMT -5
jesse can i get some good ravenhill preachings .
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 19:18:42 GMT -5
My theology can be clearly read in the theology section of this site.
As far as what I say when I preach, the audios and videos are freely available for all.
It seems like you guys are just continuing to cause division and contraversy and I am not into that. It seems to me that GNN is trying to pick a fight with OAO and that is a fight I respectfully decline. No thank you.
I am not trying to find fault with GNN nor to find flaws in their theology. I just want to serve the Lord in holiness.
I want to "bury a dead dog". I thought that we disassociated ourselves when I was banned. Now it just seems like you are going for the kill, to put me "out of business" as though I was some sort of compitition, by telling people not to join my boards, financially support the ministry, or even tell others or post a link to the site. Ministry is not a bussiness and I do not view GNN as compitition. Please do not view me as that either.
If you want to continue to speak against OAO then you can. I will just continue preaching the gospel to the lost.
I love you guys and wish nothing but the best for you.
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Post by E E W on Apr 5, 2006 19:22:27 GMT -5
May i add to this from William P. Nicholson...From the 12 Stirrings Messages... It is a question of 'How' or how much " we have repented, but have we repented of our sins, and do we enjoy the experience of continued repentance.. That is a True Repentance or repentance unto life... Now most people may have not heard this, and think maybe repentance is a one time deal, but a repentance unto life is what? That there is no repentance unto life, or true repentance, where we deny or do not feel utterly sinful and vile and never can be anything else, apart from His saving Grace... God , gets the Glory...
In these days when orginal sin and total depravity are denied or disdained and treated as if it was some antiguated and antedated bogey.
We are deifying humanity and humanizing Deity, and making Christ death on Calvary anything else, or something than a substitutionary sacrifice for our sin and us sinners... True repentance, or Repentance unto life, is a change of mind, a change of feeling, a change of purpose...
The Change in purpose is one , that i would like to talk about, With True Repentance on the whole trend and course of a life is changed, it will always lead to a turning away from sin unto God, with a full purpose of and an edeavour after a new obedience, so if Jesse is Preaching Repentance unto Life, ( or others say it is a Complete Repentance), what is wrong here, is understanding of the Word of God, coming from the other party.. Like i said: why hasn't many understood this:? I will comment why.. later.. i just felt lead to post this..
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 5, 2006 19:24:30 GMT -5
GNN said that Open Air Outreach will be featured in a "Hate Speech Documentary". We inquired about this because we knew nothing of it. Here it is: www.crucialprogression.org/ And the video they are going to use for this "hate speech documentary" is this video: cadronpictures.netfirms.com/video.htmYou know what I say? I say PRAISE GOD! That is some good preaching they are helping to spread. Does anyone see anything wrong with that video clip? Interesting factoid although off topic...I am a student at a major Christian college and I work with public safety. My boss called about an article in the LA Times disscussing this Gay rights group and how members were arrested. I told the officer I work for that I knew of the group and I had seen their website. For a moment he thought I was involved with them but I explained very quickly...here is the article. the article is called "Being Christian and Gay Aren't at Odds, Group Says" www.latimes.com/news/local/?track=leftnav-local
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 19:30:31 GMT -5
Very good Leonard Ravenhill sermons and Duncan Campbell sermons can be found at www.sermonindex.net
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Post by my2cents on Apr 5, 2006 19:31:47 GMT -5
We do however see love. Christ went on the cross because why....
God commended His love towards us that yet while we aere yet sinners, Christ dies for us. We serve Him because he deserves to be glorified and served. Shame on everyone who puts down another servant of God. I have observed this subject for some time and must say should we not all spend more time in prayer, devotion and out evangelizing then slamming one another. God is the Judge.
Jesse, you should be correcting some members on this board and also as the main administrator this board this conversation should have been locked!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 19:38:27 GMT -5
These boards are free forums. I have never locked any threads and don't plan on starting.
If anyone has come to these threads to try and pick a fight, please this is not the place. Open Air Outreach is not interested in that type of thing at all.
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guest
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Post by guest on Apr 5, 2006 19:40:00 GMT -5
Does anyone see anything wrong with that video clip? No I see nothing wrong with this clip. Jesse comes across as being spirit-filled and showing longsuffering towards a very hostile, sin loving crowd. I see nothing unbiblical in the way GNN or OAO draw a crowd although the latter is certainly more controversial but we must always be led by the Spirit as to how to confront a particular crowd. They are not all the same. I was recently criticised by a christian for offering a $10 to anyone who would prove that God did not exist. I still believe there is nothing wrong with that. However I do take issue with using unbiblical/ungodly methods for attracting a crowd for example Ron Luce - Battle Cry Outreach where ungodly rock music was used to attract youth, which unfortunately GNN leaders were not willing to condemn. Let's just agree to disagree on the two methods and only criticise and condemn if the methods are unbiblical/ungodly. Take a look at what your leader says about Battle Cry. By the way he was discipled by Ron Luce. www.openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=sayitall&action=display&thread=1144276966
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Apr 5, 2006 19:49:41 GMT -5
We're willing to work with anyone who is willing to work with us.
We personally don't like the music, but Ron Luce takes a strong stance for holiness in our society.
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 5, 2006 20:40:23 GMT -5
I give a hearty amen to what Jesse has said. For the sake of your fingers, check the Doctrine and Theology section of the MB and I think that will answer any questions about our stance on certain doctrines. For those who seem to want to pick a fight, I say go pick a fight with the devil; pray and preach open air until you go blue in the face. Guest wrote: Those do sound like fighting words only to bring division. If that is your intention then I rebuke you. Be mature. As far as locking threads and correcting every person who is in some kind of error, that can be quite a chore. I don't think any of us at OAO look at this board as our flock. It is simply a discussion board to talk about just about anything, but mainly open air preaching. We welcome hecklers and students, friends and foes. If you claim to be a Christian however, act like one. If there is filth or posts that we feel should not be here, we will delete or modify them. So far this has been a rarety. Many of you who have been faithful members have been very civil and Christ-like and I thank the Lord for that. I know that there are many opinions, ideas, falsehoods etc... going around being spread about lots of people, both OAO and GNN. I hope that it stops right here. I will not defend myself. We have commited to letting the ministry speak for itself. I can however speak up in reagards to Jesse and his conduct. Like he said, this ministry has been birthed in anguish from its very onset. I had comitted myself to partnering with Jesse back in the fall of 2005. Just before we actually hooked up in ministry, the opposition came in from all sides. To be honest, I wasn't sure what to believe the reports were so confusing. I commited myself to God and decided to go ahead and yoke myself with Jesse trusting God and trusting Jesse's charachter. I have been with Jesse now living in a van along with Jeff Olver since early February and I must say, because of all that was said about Jesse, I scrutinized his character daily (he has not been aware of this until now I guess). After having not been apart from Jesse's presence for the past 65 days or so except for a a few hours here and there, I can say with confidence that Brother Jesse is a man of God whose character has stood the test. I find no fault in him, and I HAVE LOOKED! This is not to say that Jesse is perfect in the absolute sense of the word. No, we are all very flawed and are learning much and for that reason we desire all of your prayers that we might be more effective laborers in the kingdom of God. We are giving it our best daily on these campuses and I know God can take us even deeper yet. Brethren, pray for us. I would like to post for the first time ever a note of encouragement that Jesse sent to me and Jeff prior to our teaming up back in Jan 06. It has proven to be prophetic: When he sent me this I printed it out and posted it on my wall and read it almost daily until I stepped onto the plane and left my home, my job, my family, my friends, my home church, and even my motorcycle to serve the Lord full time until He calls me to something different. Since then I have had it tucked away in my Bible and from time to time I take it out and read it, remembering just what is I signed on for. I have put my hand to plow and there is just no turning back. I wont let up, back up, or shut up until I have preached up, stayed up, stored up, and prayed up. I will not be diluted, distorted, or dismayed. I must give until I drop, go until I die and even if all hell comes out against me I must not be delayed. That's all I have for now, I hope this thread ends here to be honest. God has a record. There is a story that John R. Rice tells in his sermon "Paul Rejoices When his Enemies Preach" that has stirred me whenever I think about it. I suppose you will just have to listen to the message yourself to ind out though. I think we could all be edified if we listened to this messege If fact, my3cents is that before posting anymore everyone should listen to this: www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=263I love you all, God bless, Miles Lewis
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Apr 5, 2006 21:42:55 GMT -5
Last time I read the book of acts I did not see Paul giving people dollars for answering a bible trivia question right. But I could be wrong. True. But where did you read in the book of Acts Paul handing out tracts or holding banners stating Fear God etc. However we do read about Paul quoting secular poets to gain the attention of the philosophers in Acts 17. Jesus used money also to make illustrations/proclaim truths. The whole point of the matter is whether we use biblical, Godly or amoral methods vs clearly unbiblical and ungodly methods to attract a crowd and I believe that OAO belong to the former group.
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Post by Adam on Apr 5, 2006 23:24:01 GMT -5
I guess I will be as foolish as Jeremiah, the other prophets and the Apostle John, who said that there was a time to pray for a brother in sin and a time not to pray fro a brother in sin. Who are the other prophets you are refering you? I am aware of Jeremiah 7,14 and 1 John 5, but who are the others prophets? Jermiah was directly instucted by God so he could pass judgment and the judgment could run it course. Were you directly instucted by God during a time God wrath was poured out on GNN not pray for them? Do you want to bank on your understanding of 1 John 5 as divine? Look at what Samuel said to a rebellious and wicked people, who reject God for King and asked for an earthly king. 1 Samuel 12:23 Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you: but I will teach you the good and the right way: You deny all mercy and longsuffering of Chirst, brother. Where is your Christlikness? Where did the tenderness go? Where is the longsufering that God had for you and I? Where are the damned in "unrepented sin" needing to restored, if the righteouss don't interceed? Matthew 5 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
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Post by jackjackson on Apr 5, 2006 23:53:28 GMT -5
Straw man's friend:
First off, please have enough boldness to identify yourself, and not hide behind a screen name. Your said "OAO seems to preach that if anyone ever sins again that they are going to go to Hell." At least you said "seems to" and i will take that as a point that you don't understand what is being said.
The Bible speaks of willful sins in Hebrews 10:26, and Jesus says "depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of inquity (those who practice sin). I believe this where the issue is clouded.
On one extreme we have men like Bob Wilkins who says that even if one apostates, he cannot undo his salvation. Teaching like that lead to a license to sin all you want, and is warned against in Jude.
One another extreme their are those who think if you happen to look with lust and step off a curb and get hit by a bus, you are going to hell because you didn't have time to repent.
The Bible teaches that when we make a practice of a sin, that is we know it is sin, and are doing it when allthe while being convicted by the Spirit of grace (see Hebrews 10:26-31) we loose the sacrifice for sin, even though we had been sanctified.
That passage should cause a healthy fear of God and cause us to hate sin and what nothing more than to cleansed of all iniquity, the very desire for sin.
To challenge a person which sin they aren't willing to give up for Jesus who says be holy for I am Holy, challenges if the really still have a first love or are willing to enter into one, for the One who died for them.
I heard message 1 of Texas A&M and it was challenging, but mostly to the consciences of many who claimed to be Christians that probably like Bob Wilkins type preachers who promise liberty as wells without water (see 2 Peter concerning these false teachers).
Since much of "popular Christianity" appears leaning to what I call "hypergrace", those preaching that sinful behavior should not even be named among you (Like Paul) and that such behaviors even once you have professed faith will takes you to hell, they hate the message because it doesn't tickle the ears. They will not endure sound doctrine, and many who have gone the Baalam, don't want to upset the "popular minsitries" for fear their ministries will not be accepted. They fear man more than honor and repeat the unpopular, yet Biblical warnings of the Apostles and Christ Jesus.
Jesus said you must repent or perish, He also said only those who endured to the end would be saved. As I have seen these scriptures, I am a fool if I don't heed them, and may be unloving at minimum if I don't warn people of Jesus' own warnings. Those who don't believe a person can fall from grace, even though scripture and the Spirit expressly says that in the latter days some will depart from the faith, and that the great apostacs is that falling away (not a little apostasy) one either calls this a heretical teaching and persecutes it hard as they did at the Synod of Dort, which was not a discussion but a setup trial, and even lash out and killed those who didn't agree with their theology.
Paul said it was good that gospel be preached, and that should be the goal. Some believe they should concentrate first on getting them in, then allowing harder teaching once they are in. This seems, sorry to say, that they might feel telling the whole truth of what the gospel demands might actually cause people not to come in the first place. Isn't that what we call being ashamed of the gospel. That is like an army recruiter that points out the benefits of army life, and avoids the hard parts and restrictions.
This too becomes a form of watering down and making the gospel more appealing, which we all know is wrong and WOTM teaches against. We can't offer the benefits as a draw card, remember. So lets really be honest with them and give them the real expectations that Jesus expects that if they really love Him, they will repent and stay that way, not to wallow back in the mier, nor return to their vomit.
Paul ends 1 Cor 15 (the summary of the gospel) with a warning to not be deceived and to turn from sin. This is what he says in Gal 6, Romans 8, and James says in 1:12-16.
These all say not to be deceived in your sins, because you will be lost. To not reveal this is criminal. Paul even warned Timothy to hold fast.
Those who choose to live godly will be persecuted. What a slogan to attract converts, but God's truth non the less. i think this non-hypocritcal Christian behavior is what the world needs to see that power of the gospel. Many claim to believe in God, but by their own lifestyles and compromise of sin in their own lives and justifiying it on the old man, they merely have a semblance of faith, but deny its very power.
How tragic to a world that needs so deperately to see God's people demonstrate holiness to a world with little or no examples of it.
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A brother who cares deeply
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Post by A brother who cares deeply on Apr 6, 2006 0:29:52 GMT -5
Proverbs 6 Warnings Against Folly 1 My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor, if you have struck hands in pledge for another, 2 if you have been trapped by what you said, ensnared by the words of your mouth, 3 then do this, my son, to free yourself, since you have fallen into your neighbor's hands: Go and humble yourself; press your plea with your neighbor! 4 Allow no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids. 5 Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter, like a bird from the snare of the fowler. 6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! 7 It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, 8 yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. 9 How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? 10 A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest- 11 and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man.
12 A scoundrel and villain, who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
13 who winks with his eye, signals with his feet and motions with his fingers,
14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart— he always stirs up dissension.
15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant; he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
16 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
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Post by josh on Apr 6, 2006 0:42:22 GMT -5
Jesse, I don't think that GNN would mind me being on here if we are defending them from slander. Maybe I am wrong. It seems like you are using the same thing, "Straw Man", against them that you are accusing them of using against you. It seems as though you are slandering them as well. Wouldn't you call this hypocrisy, since you are doing to them what you are accusing them of doing to you? Wouldn't that be sin as well? That sounds like something you are aware of and therefore need to repent of. Could this be a flaw in your theology? Now I am positive that GNN would not want a seed sower over here debating different view points. This is the very reason the Body of Christ is divided. Now I am apart of GNN, and also friends with OA outreach. But I will not attack either group. I love both groups, and will be praying for all involved. So I strongly suggest that you do the same, instead of stirring up the pot, and trying to debate on a message board, why don't you take it to the Almighty? Think about it for just one moment, we have two ministries, both with the same mission, and that is to bring Glory to God through seeking and saving the lost. So with that in mind let the fighting cease, and get out there and do something about bringing this World to the saving knowledge Christ! Your Brother in Christ Josh Williamson
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Apr 6, 2006 0:53:39 GMT -5
Take a look at what your leader says about Battle Cry. By the way he was discipled by Ron Luce. My leader was once the 'infallable' Pope of the Roman Catholic church. My leader is now my Heavenly Father and His only begotten Son. Jesse as the rest of us is a fallable man and I am pleased that Ron Luce was a blessing to him, however it does not excuse the use of ungodly (wordly/rock music) methods to attract a crowd. Why is it so difficult for you to understand the point I'm trying to make. I love Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron and believe their gospel presentation is spot on, but if they used ungodly methods to present that gospel I would also be critical of them.
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Post by jonathanhulewicz on Apr 6, 2006 0:58:50 GMT -5
Now I am apart of GNN, and also friends with OA outreach. But I will not attack either group. I love both groups, and will be praying for all involved. Agree with you wholeheartdly Josh, but don't forget it was GNN that fired the first shot.
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Post by Rodgers on Apr 6, 2006 7:24:00 GMT -5
You are right we don't see Paul putting up any banners in the book of Acts. We simply see Him calling men to repent. And yes, sometimes he sat down and had to explain some things to the pagans. We do however see Jeremiah holding up a banner!
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Longtimewondering thisone
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Post by Longtimewondering thisone on Apr 6, 2006 8:10:24 GMT -5
Jesse, I am just curious, did you 'leave' GNN or were you let go?
You posted an article titled, "Why I left GNN"
So which one is it. There can only be one truth right?
Thanks for the response.
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Post by Evan on Apr 6, 2006 9:14:46 GMT -5
"It was GNN that fired the first shot"(Jonathan hulwics)
So what did Jesus say about that very issue?
1)BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS FOR THEY SHALL SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD 2)Pray for them that despitefully use you AND SAY ALL MANNER OF EVIL AGAINST YOU 3)If anyone smite you on the right cheek turn to him also the other.
really who cares what GNN says, or what OAO says about the others methods dictrines and the like. I would never have posted at all if I knew that it would turn to this. You all do realize that the way we act and speak on this message board (if we are Christian) is reflected onto OAO and Jesse and Miles and all of them. Study Matthew 5 and then post somemore, this is really rediculous. Where is the patience, the meekness, the humility,and where is the sound mind of thinking before we speak?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 9:38:07 GMT -5
Darrel told me that I couldn't have my own website, couldn't send out my own emails, and I that I couldn't even preach my own sermons at my own personal engagements. He said I could only preach his sermons and Rays sermons. That is where I drew the line because I am called to be a preacher. I told him I need to be a voice and not an echo.
The next day I was "let go" on good terms, so I could do full-time open air. The purpose of the newsletter was simply to say that GNN and I were departing and going our seperate ways. I tried to write my newsletter in a neutral manner, so that my friends and supporters in the network would not get any negative feelings towards GNN. However, GNN has tried to even use that against me.
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Wondering this for a while
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Post by Wondering this for a while on Apr 6, 2006 11:42:09 GMT -5
Jesse, So what you are saying is that you were absolutely only allowed to speak a Ray Comfort or Darrel Rundus message?
Are you saying that you were only allowed that and nothing else? Or was it your style they had a problem with, NOT that it had to come from those two sources alone.
I really want the black and white of this and seek the truth, I do not seek to pick a side, but am on the side of righteousness.
Thank you for your earlier response. Another one would be much appreciated!
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Post by Jon Speed on Apr 6, 2006 12:26:10 GMT -5
Saints,
To all of the GNN members who may have come over here to get "into the mix", so to speak...
Please respect the wishes of OAO and refrain from debating this painful decision on this forum. We love and respect Jesse and wish him no harm. As Miles rightly said, we all have work to do. Let's get to it.
Blessings,
Jon
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Post by evanschaible on Apr 6, 2006 13:22:14 GMT -5
Jon, You broke your own rule brother ;D , just kidding, I returned your call, but you were gone, So i guess that means phone tag, your it.
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Post by Darrel Rundus on Apr 6, 2006 15:03:23 GMT -5
GNN Seed Sowers, Local Leaders and supporters of OAO,
Let me first offer you all and OAO a heart felt, sincere and humble apology. We still feel that we should make a clear cut distinction between the approach to the lost that God has clearly shown us and other ministries which are extremely confrontational, and are trying "to clean the fish before they catch them" however, the way we did it and some of the things that we said were wrong.
The first mistake I made was not sending these letters to the two people I trust the most when it comes to biblical and godly counsel. It is a wise man who seeks the counsel of godly men (Proverbs 12:15). Perhaps if I would have first sought out their counsel much of the negative and divisive things that have come out of our actions would have been avoided.
Instead of publicly pointing out the things we felt that were wrong, we should have remained focused on what we stand for, what we believe is biblical preaching and sound doctrine and not got caught up in what another ministry is doing wrong. We also should have stayed away from comments like “Bad morals corrupt good company.” Additionally, for us to tell people not to support their ministry financially or otherwise, was wrong and it came off as a spirit of control and we sincerely regret doing that. As I stated in my previous letter, our motive wasn’t to create a witch-hunt for OAO, to destroy or harm their reputation, their ministry or to create division between brothers and sisters. We simply were concerned about some of the things we see them doing and wanted give a word of caution to our GNN members. While our intentions and motive may have been acceptable, the way we went about communicating it to all of you wasn’t. We should have just left all that in the hands of God and let you decide what ministry you want to support, endorse or associate with. We beg your forgiveness.
GNN is not a church and I am not your Shepard. I misspoke when referring to myself as your Shepard and you as my flock. I am your commanding officer and every good solider should want to please their commanding officer. However, as the commanding officer of this army of evangelist that God has entrusted me with and as someone who deeply cares about his troops, I was simply trying to protect the troops and I didn’t want to put you in harms way. I was trying to steer you clear from any obvious and present danger. It was wrong for me to take authority over you as a pastor would for God has neither called me to be your pastor nor given me the authority over you as your pastor. Please forgive me.
GNN is not a church and I am not your Shepard. I misspoke when referring to myself as your Shepard and you as my flock. However, as the Spiritual leader of the GNN army of evangelists that God has entrusted me with, and as someone who deeply cares about his troops, I was zealous in my effort to try to protect the troops. I didn’t want you harmed in any way and I was trying to steer you clear from what I felt where obvious and present dangers. It was wrong for me to take authority over you as a pastor would for God has neither called me to be your pastor nor given me the authority over you as your pastor. Please forgive me.
In closing, let me once again reiterate that we should have just simply said we love Jesse, Miles and OAO, believe in their cause, but have some serious differences about theology, operating procedures and doctrine that have led us to go in a different direction. You have my commitment that from today forward, we won’t be telling you who to fellowship with, support financially, or avoid. That’s between you and God. We are firmly committed to doing what we feel is biblical and we’ll continue to do our best to clearly communicate what we feel is the most biblical and anointed way to seek and save the lost. We will continue to provide all of you with tools and try to equip you in an effort to guide you biblically in this battle. We will endeavor to honor God with everything we think, do, say, and feel and to lead you by our own example.
You will not receive any more e-mails from GNN regarding our two previous letters stating public position and decision to distance ourselves from Open Air Outreach (OAO). As far as we are concerned this is a closed book and we will not continue to discuss the matter until such time as God brings back true reconciliation between GNN and OAO. We respectful request you to pray that God will lead this army to become as one, just as we are one in Christ and may he use all of us collectively to defeat the enemy and exalt the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Christ,
Darrel Rundus GNN Founder
Ps, this has also been posted to the GNN MB and was sent to all members.
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