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Post by Steve Noel on Apr 21, 2006 15:19:27 GMT -5
For those of you who are out witnessing and preaching OA are you seeing genuine conviction in the hearers? I've listened to several audio's of 1-2-1's and OA's recently (Not really from this site) and I've noticed that although people are taken through the law there seems to be little brokenness. Is this a lack of the presence of the Spirit in our witnessing or something else?
Even though there was a lot of oppostion in the book of Acts it's also made clear that many were being added to the body throughout the book. It seems to me that we get alot of the opposition, but little of the genuine conviction and contrition. Is this an accurate observation? If so, then why?
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Post by Jules on Apr 24, 2006 23:50:54 GMT -5
man, good question Steve. I don't know. This world seems to be going to hell faster than we can rebuke it. That grieves me.
It is depressing at times. But it makes me want to pray all the more for God to rise up, the Spirit to rain down, and revival to break through.
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Post by Grant on Apr 25, 2006 0:21:20 GMT -5
It definitely must be in love, not just assumed so either. They must feel it and see it in the one witnessing. If we get too much into the mechanics of the mode, we lose their attention on the heart of the matter because they see right through it all. But when people know we are sincere and crying out for THEM and not from self-righteousness, they tend to listen. Even some of those who were my hardest hearers ended up confessing to me later that they really could tell I meant the best for them and that's why they continued with me. Seeing that in their eyes was encouraging enough. Its our anguish and pain to see them set free from sin! Our love for God! Amen.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 25, 2006 0:35:12 GMT -5
I have definitely seen it Steve....especially as of late. One guy got saved at NC State today. I was preaching and noticed he was under heavy conviction after listening for about 20 minutes. Someone who was with me took him aside and led him to the Lord. On Saturday afternoon I was witnessing to a Jehovah's Witness at the local Flea Market and she repented and put her trust in Jesus on the spot. About 2-3 weeks ago, I led a formerly Catholic couple to the Lord. The wife was very broken visually....sometimes we sow and other times we reap... ;D
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Post by Steve Noel on Apr 25, 2006 9:11:06 GMT -5
Rev K,
That's encouraging to hear! I thank God for you Kerrigan.
Grant,
I hear what you're saying brother. I've noticed when preaching at our church that many times the passion in the preaching is often more effective than the words I say. That's basically the point I was trying to make here. If we get up to preach after having our fire lit in the presence of God I believe people will feel that fire. I think too often we go out in our own strength. I believe Ravenhill said, "A sermon borne in the head reaches the head, but a sermon borne in the heart reaches the heart."
I believe we could see a deeper work of the Spirit if we were deeper in the Spirit. At least that's where I think I'm often lacking in my evangelistic efforts. Too often I go out with all the right tools and forget that Jesus said w/o me you can do nothing. I think I would be far more effective if I went out saturated in the Spirit of God. Ultimately I don't believe it's an "either or" situation, but a "both and". We should go out with all the tools God has given us in the power of the Spirit.
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Post by Grant on Apr 25, 2006 9:27:03 GMT -5
Amen. The hearts that seem harder don't always need harder preaching, nor the soft spoken words may not always be right for the broken hearted. The Holy Spirit definitely needs to be Who leads us since He knows their heart. I need to constantly keep watch on myself to see that I don't fall into the trap of copying some other preachers or styles just because it seemed right or powerful then. God will use me as who I am which makes for the best witnessing.
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Post by Jules on Apr 25, 2006 11:06:26 GMT -5
man, this is encouraging. I preached my first open air this past weekend and it was definately a building up in the heart. I am trying to be led by the Spirit in ALL things, esp with preaching. For some time I have wanted to preach open air just was fearful I would do it in a spirit of pride or would rely on someone else's methods. I knew if I ever did open air it owuld not be a money draw, or anyhting like it. I knew it would be impromptu, whatever God had laid on my heart. I don't say that to diss money draws, but for whatever reason, the Lord has not permitted me to do it that way, I think because I would rely too much on the method and not Him. Does that make sense? All I know is, ther eis SO MUCH burden on my heart, preaching is the only way I know how to life it (other than prayer)
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Post by Jules on Apr 25, 2006 11:08:19 GMT -5
I meant ot say preaching is the only way I can LIFT it. While I thought i was going to puke BEFORE preaching, there was such a sense of release afterwards. Of course, 6 guys standing there snapping their fingers as a sign to say that many people were dying and going to hell every two seconds certainly didn't help me stay in the "fear and puke mode" long gotta love the brethren!
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 25, 2006 11:35:30 GMT -5
Sometimes I see people under conviction (tears in their eyes) and other times I feel like they are so hard hearted I couldn't get through to them if I used a sledge hammer. I think it does have a lot to do with my heart. I remember I was having a difficult time last semester and I was feeling really insecure and self conscious about my preaching because a friend kept on criticizing me. I started preaching to please her and nobody would even listen to me. They would walk away in the first minute or so. But on the other hand, I remember having a sincere time of prayer with my brohters before we went out and I was overflowing with compassion for the lost. People listened and even seemed a little convicted but for the most part nobody was very receptive. I still walked away praising God because I knew that my heart was right and it was just a hard place to fish.
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Post by Grant on Apr 25, 2006 18:48:08 GMT -5
praise GOD you two! I'm so encouraged by your humility, openness and faith.
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Post by josefurban on Apr 25, 2006 21:44:56 GMT -5
"What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?" - Jeremiah 23:28-29
Where is the sledge hammer of conviction? The answer is simple. Christians are going out in their own power and in their own wisdom and in their own flesh rather than in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. They are preaching the Law and the Gospel, but they are not preaching the branded, white-hot flaming fire of the pure Word of God straight from their burning bellies. And most bellies don't burn any more, there is no brokenness and desperation to see the Lord move. And because of this, there is no more true prayer...no deep, seeking, fervant, hungry, broken, utterly desperate prayer that says "give me souls lest I die". There is no resolve saying "I will fast and pray until either God baptizes me in the FIRE of the Holy Ghost or I will die of starvation". And there is no more spirit of prayer amongst the people of God as in times of old.
I have personally seen conviction fall like a ton of bricks recently in most miraculous ways, it is definately ALL the work of the Spirit of God. However, there is a level I haven't even touched yet that I read about in the revivals of old.
Every genuine move of God, every true revival, was birthed through intense prayer; wailing, travailing, mourning, seeking endlessly until God moved. Conviction falls because the Spirit of God falls, and He only falls when His people PRAY earnestly. Yes you can manipulate peoples' emotions and get them to shed a hot tear but this isn't neccesarily genuine conviction (I've seen psychics cause people to cry). Genuine conviction will break and crush people and this will only come when the proper methods are applied. The proper methods are: 1. Intense prayer and seeking non-stop until God moves. AND 2. Breaking up the fallow ground through opening up the Law by the anointing of the Spirit of God. Remember, the Law will be nothing but DEAD until the Holy Spirit quickens it, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives LIFE. Only by prayer will we see genuine conviction, and only by prayer will we see geniune conversion. John Wesley said, "God does nothing except in answer to prayer". I am resolved that he was right.
The answer to seeing genuine conviction is geniune prayer and fasting. That's it, period. Nothing else will ever do for this has always been God's way since the days of the Apostles of our Lord.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 25, 2006 22:03:17 GMT -5
"What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?" - Jeremiah 23:28-29Where is the sledge hammer of conviction? The answer is simple. Christians are going out in their own power and in their own wisdom and in their own flesh rather than in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. They are preaching the Law and the Gospel, but they are not preaching the branded, white-hot flaming fire of the pure Word of God straight from their burning bellies. And most bellies don't burn any more, there is no brokenness and desperation to see the Lord move. And because of this, there is no more true prayer...no deep, seeking, fervant, hungry, broken, utterly desperate prayer that says "give me souls lest I die". There is no resolve saying "I will fast and pray until either God baptizes me in the FIRE of the Holy Ghost or I will die of starvation". And there is no more spirit of prayer amongst the people of God as in times of old. I have personally seen conviction fall like a ton of bricks recently in most miraculous ways, it is definately ALL the work of the Spirit of God. However, [glow=red,2,300]there is a level I haven't even touched yet that I read about in the revivals of old.[/glow] Every genuine move of God, every true revival, was birthed through intense prayer; wailing, travailing, mourning, seeking endlessly until God moved. Conviction falls because the Spirit of God falls, and He only falls when His people PRAY earnestly. Yes you can manipulate peoples' emotions and get them to shed a hot tear but this isn't neccesarily genuine conviction (I've seen psychics cause people to cry). Genuine conviction will break and crush people and this will only come when the proper methods are applied. The proper methods are: 1. Intense prayer and seeking non-stop until God moves. AND 2. Breaking up the fallow ground through opening up the Law by the anointing of the Spirit of God. Remember, the Law will be nothing but DEAD until the Holy Spirit quickens it, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives LIFE. Only by prayer will we see genuine conviction, and only by prayer will we see geniune conversion. John Wesley said, "God does nothing except in answer to prayer". I am resolved that he was right. The answer to seeing genuine conviction is geniune prayer and fasting. That's it, period. Nothing else will ever do for this has always been God's way since the days of the Apostles of our Lord. I agree brother and am seeking a "higher" anointing from God as well. [glow=red,2,300]I need to fast and pray more![/glow]
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Post by ejuliot on Apr 25, 2006 22:19:33 GMT -5
amen! I as well.
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Post by Grant on Apr 25, 2006 22:31:37 GMT -5
amen! amen! and amen! (I as well)
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Post by Jules on Apr 25, 2006 22:33:40 GMT -5
Josef - man oh oman....what a blessed addition to OAO you will be when you start traveling with Miles...I can't wait to come see you guys in action!
Your post was amazing.....a burning belly....that's what I want! I have been seeking this level for some time and was just thinking today about fasting in preparation of the massive outreach this weekend. Thank you for the encouraging words and challenge....
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Post by Steve Noel on Apr 26, 2006 15:38:38 GMT -5
Amen Joseph! The Spirit makes ALL the difference. Michael Brown once said at a Pastor's Conference that "The issue is not that we need more of God, but rather, God needs more of us." This world will never be humbled before man's wisdom. But They cannot stand under the ministry of a holy man/ woman preaching God's holy Word in the power of the Holy Spirit. We can't get that anointing by listening to sermons, reading articles, or talking about it - We must seek God for it. And the way we get it is the way we maintain it. Mark 3:14 says, "He appointed twelve—designating them apostles—that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach." Our number one priority is to be with him and out of that we go and preach. May God use this thread to draw each of us into a deeper walk with him. Steve
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 26, 2006 16:19:24 GMT -5
Amen Josef! Great post.
Back around August or September I posted on this board that I believe many of us are preaching what some of our spiritual forefathers preached, but what separates them from us as far as the results go was their heart after God, their prayer lives, and their heart for souls. These are things that cannot be taught, but are only imparted to us as we seek God in prayer and fasting.
I also want to encourage all of us to continue sowing even during times when there seems to be little or no fruit coming forth. They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goes forth and weeps bearing precious seed shall doubtless come again with rejoicing bringing his sheaves with him (Psalm 126:5-6).
I am often challenged by something I read in Why Revival Tarries (I have read this book through 10 times to this date). It is at the beginning of Chapter 16 "Give me children or I die"
It was seven years ...Before Carey baptized his first convert in India ...Before Judson won his first disciple in Burmah ...That Morrison toiled before the first Chinaman was brought to Christ ...Declares Moffat, that he waited to see the first evident moving of the Holy Spirit upon his Bechauanas of Africa ...Before Henry Richards wrought the first convert, gained at Banza Manteka
If we don't sow in tears we will not reap in joy.
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Post by Jules on Apr 26, 2006 16:32:16 GMT -5
I hope this seven year cycle isn't in store for everyone but I know what you mean...wait on the Spirit as they did in Acts. I have so many questions about these kinds of things, being raised Southern Baptist I didn't even KNOW about a Baptism in the Spirit - kinda like the people in Acts when Paul asked them and they said they didn't even know there WAS a HOly Spirit! I'll admit I don't have an experience as such that I hear others speak of, either resulting from a revival, laying on of hands, etc. I know the SPirit of God is within me, and I do preach, but I certainly have begun praying for the power from on High to rain down and push forth through the fallow ground. Perhaps that is another thread....I know the basics: absolute surrender, fasting, praying, etc. But I must admit when I truly think of the calling of God I am so fearful, just like Joshua, Moses, Isaiah, and others. I don't understand why He would want me to do anything but burn in hell forever, much less preach His holy Word to a lost and dying world. I want the fire, the burning belly, and the passion that I read about and am just beginning to see in the lives of others. THe problem is, I only see glimpses of it. Maybe it is just here in America, I don't know. I just know I see the promises and power of God literally SCREAMING from the pages of scripture and it makes me cry out to Him for it.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 26, 2006 16:36:16 GMT -5
What I suppose I am trying to say is perserverance is necessary not only for a personal baptism of fire but for an outpouring of God's Spirit to be poured out (true God sent revival).
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Post by Steve Noel on Apr 26, 2006 16:37:54 GMT -5
Amen Micah, We have to say with Jacob: "I won't let you go until you bless me". The quote I posted earlier from Michael Brown comes from a message I have on video. I found the audio of it on his website and I recommend everyone here listens to it. It's a little long so you may want to download it and listen when you have time. This sermon will hit you hard - I promise. Scroll down to: Called To Die at: www.icnministries.org/resources/audio.htm
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Post by pburwell on Apr 26, 2006 18:01:15 GMT -5
I believe the reason we see little contrition here in the USA is the arrogance of the general citizenry. In Ghana a group of 200 people all heard the gospel in two days and MANY repented! Fishers of Men Medical Ministries(Andy and Victoria in Ghana) Their reverance for the scripture and God was evident and I was moved to hear of the reports. (Preaching Team) I was also dismayed because I see exactly what you mentioned, little contrition and alot of glad to be hell bound arrogance here. Makes me want to wash my hands of this country. A time of trial and real breaking is coming for the USA. I have been part of that judgement and so glad God has rescued me. But all who live here will suffer under that judgement God will meet out here. So we have little time. Be like John the Baptist and declare today the day of salvation! Reach out to all you meet today. If every Christian did this we would see SUCH liberation and persecution as was not since the days of the Acts of the Apostles themselves!! No, the lack of response is not from a lack of the Spirit but the response of a hard hearted people. Come quickly Lord Jesus.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 26, 2006 18:49:22 GMT -5
Thank you for the post. I still think it is both. I do think people who saw genuine revival paid a tremendous price. Evan Roberts prayed about 7 hours a day for many years before the Welsh revival. I do not know too many people who pray like that. They also had their excuses for not doing so back then.
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Post by Steve Noel on Apr 26, 2006 19:33:11 GMT -5
I agree Micah. I think that in context he was challenging people who were hungry for more of God to give God more of themselves.
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Post by Jules on Apr 27, 2006 0:01:12 GMT -5
yes....I agree. And I am challenged to give more, but wonder why in the world God would want ANY part of me!
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