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Post by Jesse Morrell on Dec 6, 2006 16:18:29 GMT -5
Dan,
Honestly, after many of your posts, lately I started thinking, "why is Dan even here?"
You don't like our theology.
You don't like our evangelism methods.
You don't like the preachers that we support.
So why are you even here man?
I do want these boards to be a place where street preachers can come and find encouragement from other street preachers. But you have done the work of the devil, by making it a place of discouragement for God's preachers!
So much of your contribution to the boards have just been negative, very little positive.
I really like you as a person, but we seem to clash so much in your beliefs.
If you don't like our theology, our methods, and the preachers we like, why are you even here?? I have seen you do a great disservice to God's kingdom, with your discouragement to open air preachers who preach the bible!
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Post by biblethumper on Dec 6, 2006 19:36:39 GMT -5
Well, I enjoy discussion and open rebuke on BOTH ends if it leads to postive change at the CONCLUSION of the threads.
Apparently you see this as being harmful or that I'm somehow out to get Open Air Preachers.
Not at all, Jesse, brother.
Jesse, Pat, Josef and a few other amazing guys left this forum as they saw you come against THEM; not them against YOU.
I know you see this all as persecution against you when questions are raised and methods brought in rebuke, but, brother, understand that many of us no longer believe in yelling, screaming and name calling.
Some of us have moved on and have sat at the feet of Jesus to learn; and sometimes we passionately ask you to stop undermining the cause of Christ with your methods.
You seem to be offended by this.
You seem to be hurt, even.
I'm sorry if I've hurt you, Jesse.
I love you in Christ; God as my witness.
This evening Pastor Steeper prayed for OAO and Eli at my request; the entire group lifted you all up in blessing.
Now, I'll leave permanently as you've implied I should.
God bless you and may you come to realize that preaching the Gospel is so much more than what you now see and perform in the Kingdom.
In the years to come, I KNOW God will work through you in a deeper manner; I believe that, Jesse.
He's doing it in me, and because I'm undeserving and the least to deserve it, so to speak, I believe good things for you from the hand of God.
Bless you in Christ.
Bye.
Dan
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Post by josh on Dec 6, 2006 23:32:30 GMT -5
I have actually enjoyed Dan's posts. He adds another dynamic to the board. IF we all agreed on everything this board would be boring.
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Post by bullhornbob on Dec 7, 2006 0:44:58 GMT -5
I have actually enjoyed Dan's posts. He adds another dynamic to the board. IF we all agreed on everything this board would be boring. Point well taken, Josh. But I must add that Dan is very quick to accuse people of being false prophets, liars, apostate, etc., and that by his OPINION, but lacking proper biblical backing. Once you disagree with Dan, you are OUT! I personally never slandered him once, that I know of; yet he continually accused me of being false because I told the truth about people I minister with on a regular basis, and that without apology or admission of guilt. See former posts for details.
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Post by robdog on Dec 7, 2006 13:38:36 GMT -5
Awww man...I like Dan...I was glad he was back... Jesse, how can preachers grow if they don't get feedback and stuff...How can you be MORE effective if all you here is "good job, keep it up..." Calling people "Morons" IS NOT THE WAY TO WIN THEM TO CHRIST...If you truly LOVED them enough to WARN THEM about hell, would you embrace name calling as a method...?? How many doctors say "Well, you got cancer, your pretty dumb for smoking"... I've never heard you do it, or Miles, or Eli, or Jeff, Dan had a good point... The other guys did leave, but Dan stuck around, left and came back, because he and I both know how strong your ministry is and how much potential OAO has.
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 7, 2006 13:55:44 GMT -5
In the first place, I have been on this website frequently ever since it started, and Jesse never attacked ANYONE. Show me a post where Jesse attacked Patrick and Josef.
They did come on and criticize others like myself. I attempted to discuss the situation with Patrick in a civil manner, but he would not and made a website against me, even though he has never heard me preach. For the record I never attacked Patrick either, but actually made positive comments about him and the work he was doing.
I fail to understand how people like myself and bullhornbob are labeled as "false" by biblethumper because we support Ruben Israel, but yet Jesse, Miles, Evan, and Eli also support Ruben and they are not labeled false. Miles, Evan, and Eli stayed at Ruben's house while they were preaching at UCLA.
Do I call this hypocrisy, respector of persons, man pleasing, or man fearing?
Another thing I cannot understand. If biblethumper has such a problem with Ruben why doesn't he go over to Jed Smock's board where Ruben frequently posts and debate him. That is what RevK did.
Biblethumper makes statements about how if you disagree with Ruben around here, then you are in trouble. Totally wrong. Most people on this board do not agree with Ruben rather than agreeing with him.
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Post by tonyholland on Dec 7, 2006 14:03:01 GMT -5
Biblethumper makes statements about how if you disagree with Ruben around here, then you are in trouble. Totally wrong. Most people on this board do not agree with Ruben rather than agreeing with him. I kind of wondered about that too. I have had pretty serious disagreements with you, Jesse and some others, but have never felt like I was "in trouble" for it. I really like a lot of Dan's posts also. They bring a lot to think about from a different perspective, but I did wish that he would cut it out with telling people that they are "of the devil" and stuff like that over simple disagreements.
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 7, 2006 14:11:58 GMT -5
I liked alot of his posts also. However, after months go by and everthing has already been discussed and everyone has had their own say so, and we agree to disagree, anyone who does not agree with biblethumper (as long as they are not part of OAO I assume) are "false" and "of the devil".
He contines to focus on these things, and try to revive them constantly.
I was in a church for 14 years. After many years there I saw things I did not agree with. I stayed to try to change things. After a while, I saw they were not going to change. If I continued to stay all it would do was bring confusion, division, etc. So I left.
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Post by tbxi on Dec 7, 2006 15:19:43 GMT -5
I like Dan and these comments basically sum up my feelings here.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Dec 7, 2006 19:02:09 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Dec 7, 2006 20:22:27 GMT -5
I concur
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Post by dale on Dec 7, 2006 21:18:44 GMT -5
In the beginning I found these arguments among the Christians to be hilariously funny, but any more I do not as I have gotten to know the people involved, at least from the distance. Jesse struck me as an absolute klutz and Biblethumper as a fool. Do you really want to know what i said out loud the first time I read Thumper's post saying "Repent. Turn from your sins." After hearing Thumper's story, I understand why he is as he is. After looking a little into Jesse's background and the background of some of the others, I understand them and their reasoning for preaching as they do a little better,even if I disagree with the message and the delivery. It is a pity you all cannot agree with each other or at least accept the fact that different styles might well work, if yoiu use them properly, in certain settings. Yelling at people on a tree stump la Harry from Night Of The Hunter might well work with some people, though I find these fire and brimstone rants hysterical. To other people,t he preaching of a loving savior rather than a judge might be what gets them saved. What would get me saved? Nothing! But I am NOT the topic here.
This reminds me of a situation I ran into continually when covering bullfights on the broder. You essentailly had twos tyles of matador. the artista, who was calm, cool, dominating and standing his ground. He did slow, artistic passes and graceful moves. Then you had the tremendista who was suicidally brave. He was not slow and graceful. He was crazy. he did kneeling passes and other moves which led the crowd to believe he would be kileld at any minute. The fans of the artistas hated the tremendistas and those who liked this style, while the fans of the tremendistas found the artistas boring. I personally liked both styles. To me, I always rolled my eyes when people tried to tell me you had to like one or the other. There was room on a card for both styles. It made cards more interesting. I see this bickering about how someone should preach to be along this same line, but just a different profession.
This is a thought. Since everyone seems to preach in teams, why hasn;t anyone thought of a combination of both the hellfire screamer and the more subdued Dan type of preaching? What works on one listener will bomb with another. if you had a firebreather,f ollowed by someone a little more subdued, have you ever considered the possibility of reaching more people?
From a personal standpoint, I think regardless of style, you are all full of, oih never mind, I knolw Jresse won;'t let me get by with how I want to complete the sentence. Youg et the drift. The thing is IM NOT the norm. I am thinming about dealing with the average Joe Blow out there.
It would be nice if you all would quit bickering with each other over what style works best or not and focus more on your own ministries at hand. If your style conflictrs with someone else, so be it. Worry less about the others and more about making yourself effective.
I don;t like to see Dan go. I also don;t find you people bickering with each other nearly as funny as i once did. In fact, I find it a real pity all around.
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 7, 2006 21:34:19 GMT -5
I don;t like to see Dan go. I also don;t find you people bickering with each other nearly as funny as i once did. In fact, I find it a real pity all around. Good thing the unbeliever could really see the love one for another...Huh
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 9, 2006 11:45:13 GMT -5
I don't think Jesse, myself, or anyone else is criticizing anyone else for being out there preaching. I appreciate anyone who is out preaching (except for a guy like Phelps) even if I don't agree with all of their theology or methods, and I know Jesse believes the same.
It is the other side who is criticizing us and we have to constantly defend our methods and theology. There are many on this board like RevK, Tony Holland, etc. who may not agree with us on every point, but we have civil discussions and I believe they consider us to be true brethren and appreciate us being out there spreading the Word of God.
Biblethumper is a different case altogether though. If he doesn't agree with you, he labels you a false Christian or of the devil (unless you are a member of OAO, then it is permissable I guess).
Lately, it seems he is totally consumed with proving he is right, and the rest of us are wrong. It is divisive and counterproductive.
I am too busy trying to obey God to sit around bickering all the time. If someone wants to call me the devil, or false so be it. They called Jesus the same why should I expect less.
We are not going around criticizing biblethumper, Patrick, or Josef. We are glad and thankful they are out preaching. They are the ones who attack us.
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Post by mahatma on Dec 11, 2006 15:48:00 GMT -5
Wow. I decide to come back and check the place out again and this is what I find.
You guys are happy to encourage the mad ravings of someone like Pach, even when he is attacking people you know to be saved christians. You encourage him, you prod him on. But let BT criticize people you like and you turn on him like a pack of wild dogs. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Have you erected the stake with a boar's head on it yet?
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 11, 2006 16:04:17 GMT -5
Mahatma, you seem to have an understanding of quite a few biblical principles, and yet you are not born again. Why?
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Post by mahatma on Dec 11, 2006 16:14:53 GMT -5
To be blunt, I don't want to be like the people here. Any form of christianity the members of this site would accept as real would make me a person I don't want to be. I try to be fair, reasonable, polite, respectful, kind, and loving. Most of those traits aren't anywhere in evidence in most of the people here, and the people who do have them are mocked by their "brothers." I have a good, loving, supportive family, and I don't need a bickering, petty, backstabbing one to supplement it.
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 11, 2006 16:26:59 GMT -5
To be blunt, I don't want to be like the people here. Any form of christianity the members of this site would accept as real would make me a person I don't want to be. I try to be fair, reasonable, polite, respectful, kind, and loving. Most of those traits aren't anywhere in evidence in most of the people here, and the people who do have them are mocked by their "brothers." I have a good, loving, supportive family, and I don't need a bickering, petty, backstabbing one to supplement it. I can certainly understand some of what you say and would agree that some here do not exhibit brotherly love, and try to disguise it with the idea they are preaching the truth. But on judgement day Mahatma they will answer to God alone and so will I and so will you. I hope you won't try to use their sin as an excuse when you stand before God.
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Post by mahatma on Dec 11, 2006 16:46:09 GMT -5
I'm not big on blaming others for my problems, and if there is a God and I someday stand before him I'll take full responsibility for my life and all the things I've done, good and bad. Sputtering out religious excuses to justify bad acts is the specialty of others, and I'll leave them to it.
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 11, 2006 16:52:44 GMT -5
The question for you though Mahatma is what will be your end when you stand before God on judgment day. I'm not trying to beat you over the head or deny that some here do. I'm just saying that you seem to be trusting in how good you are and I was wondering what your standard of measure is?
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Post by mahatma on Dec 11, 2006 16:56:55 GMT -5
I didn't say that I am trusting in my goodness. I said I will take responsibility for my actions. If there's a God and if that God decides I should suffer, then so be it. If God decides I need to be punished for something then that's his perogative and so be it. In the meantime I will live my life as best I know.
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 11, 2006 17:09:50 GMT -5
Why not repent of your sins and trust the God of the Bible to do what He promises? As an intelligent person you certainly aren't saying there is no God are you?
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Post by mahatma on Dec 11, 2006 17:11:15 GMT -5
I'm not going to turn this thread into a theology debate, and I don't discuss my beliefs in public.
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Post by alan4jc on Dec 11, 2006 17:19:12 GMT -5
No problem! I certainly don't want to push you.
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Post by biblethumper on Dec 12, 2006 19:53:41 GMT -5
Ahh, after reading these posts I wanted to come in one last time, not to defend myself, but to clarify in finality. Jesse1- Brother, you need to come to the place where the Cross is your focus, as Pat and Josef and even Greg have tried showing you that your message and method has strayed from Biblical Christianity. 2- The total sum of your preaching AGAINST the rest of the Body of Christ is seen in this short clip....it APPEARS that you're speaking about Biblical Evangelism, but I must mention you speak of "us vs them' and you mock all, literally ALL, who do not preach as "we" do; even your audience laughs in the background as you speak.... this message SEEMS good, but it's easy to see how you're quite literally mocking the Church of God and coming against the Body of Christ who will not submit to YOUR method of Evangelism....and thsi is the video you highly endorse, btw: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kyBfZLLlZIMicahYou're a shame to the Body of Christ, and, again, an abomination who defends false prophets and who brings reproach to True Gospel Preaching, as is shown here with you and with your wife talking foolishness and not speaking of the Cross and of the Lamb of God who so wonderfully died for the lost...rather, you not only speak fooish, you ACT foolish with your wild fanatical circus show www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swEcsZTxPcBullhornbob1- Bullhorn, you may fool some HERE and some THERE, yet I'm under the impression that you're not as sly in your own community as you are with people you chat with online and know face to face on a sporadic basis; I won't write further as it may strengthen your persecution complex. OthersIt's easy to swallow the pills these guys give out... because their voices are as prominent as anyone's. If one were to study ONLY ecology, soon there would be no other focus; hence, as many listen to these sermons and watch these videos, there seems to be nothing else in focus. If one was to believe Micah, Bullhorn or some others who claim "Biblethumper calls us names" , one would believe them to be great prophets of renown who are immune from Biblical testing and who appear to be under "persecution from satan". If some wish to believe that these men are somehow super apostles and are somehow being persecuted by the devil, then so be it; God is the final Judge of such men. Let it be known, however, that there are certain characteristics which define a man and a ministry. Friends, I love you all. I do. I love Jesse. I love Ruben. I love Micah. I love Bullhorn. I love all of YOU. If I appeared to have come against these men without warrant, please forgive me; please send me an email; I want you to have a free video compilation almost through which exposes certain men, ministries and methods in light of Scripture; then you will know WHY I spoke as I did. I want you to know I love you in Christ; though it seems I was harsh many times, and though I was harsh many times, my heart was FOR you, never AGAINST you. In the past few days I have received email after email; some others have left the Forum for good while others have defended me and have asked me to come back; thank you, friends! I won't come back. I won't post. Mahatma hit it on the button that when a preacher comes against a lost person or a modern preacher, all say, "Amen!" yet when a preacher HERE comes against a preacher HERE, they attack as wild dogs. He is correct; and I in the past partook of that myself, and may God forgive my foolishness! Beloved, I simply hate to see the Name and Cause of Jesus to be blasphemed by wicked men who pretend to love Truth and who pretend to love sinners; they DO NOT love sinners and are NOT concerned about sould. When you attack, they say, "How long have YOU been preaching?!". When you question them, they hold private email meetings and mock you and call you names and believe you were not sent such emails and words. When you come against them they state that they are being persecuted, yet they themselves persecute the Church of God. Friends, stay on the Forum; stay, and pray for these people. Write to Jesse and to Micah and to Ruben and to Bullhorn... tell them of God's desire to make them whole. Tell them of God's wonderous love for those who truly love Him and walk in His Word without hypocrisy. God bless you my friends, and I truly do ask your forgiveness for seeming at times to be harsh and unloving. May God bless each of you here as He alone knows how to Bless. Dan
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Post by menorah on Dec 12, 2006 20:24:46 GMT -5
I have been offline for some time... but had seen that something was not quite right in the methods used by some on this forum also Dan. We all need to seek the face of God and realise that we can do nothing apart from God. We are meant to be reflecting Christ no ourselves, something of heaven. I dont see that in the links above. All we do in ministry must flow from being in his rest meaning we do not have man made methods but are fine tuned listening to the Lord only and being led by His Holy Spirit alone. Dead to "I" and alive in Christ. I would urge Jesse Micah Ruben and Bullhorn to read The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee. I saw the above videos and Micah and was amazed at the spectacle. I couldnt imagine the Lord speaking in that way, I dont see it in the word. I am going to send you the book as I have it in word format. May the Lord open your eyes to his truth and his ways.
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Post by messengermicah on Dec 14, 2006 10:59:27 GMT -5
E-mails? Huh?
Defend myself? Where?
I am the one called a devil, false, etc. by Patrick and Biblethumper and I am accused of attacking biblethumper?
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