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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 10:12:06 GMT -5
How many of you will bow down and take this card? Could it be the way for the Mark of The Beast? Watch this 3 minute youtube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBrWN2BE6vgRevelation 13:17-18, "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Add CNET News.com headlines to your Google homepage or Google reader. What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about? President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday. What does that mean for me? Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards. News.context What's new: The House of Representatives has approved an $82 billion military spending bill with an attachment that would mandate electronically readable ID cards for Americans. President Bush is expected to sign the bill. Bottom line: The Real ID Act would establish what amounts to a national identity card. State drivers' licenses and other such documents would have to meet federal ID standards established by the Department of Homeland Security. More stories on this topic The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds. How will I get one of these new ID cards? You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous. For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa. State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration. What's going to be stored on this ID card? At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes." Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be. Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill? Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on. The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID
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Post by rebecca on Aug 11, 2007 11:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by tonyholland on Aug 11, 2007 12:01:53 GMT -5
Well, the poll question is kind of loaded to begin with. "Bow down"? What is the problem? You already have (I assume) a state issued drivers license that has this same information which can be accessed by the federal government (simply running a query on NCIC will give you all of the info that is on the DL. I didn't see where anymore info is going to be asked for than what we are already being asked for.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 12:57:51 GMT -5
Well, the poll question is kind of loaded to begin with. "Bow down"? What is the problem? You already have (I assume) a state issued drivers license that has this same information which can be accessed by the federal government (simply running a query on NCIC will give you all of the info that is on the DL. I didn't see where anymore info is going to be asked for than what we are already being asked for. Well, one difference is one is Issued by the State and the other by National Laws. A big difference. A state license was origianlly issued to those people who were based on the states law ; able to oporate a motor vehicle. These new cards are to keep track of all people. For some reason, I feel this is not right to my freedom. A drivers license was a benifit for me. But this card is a burden to me. I say there is a BIG DIFFERENCE.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 13:02:02 GMT -5
Did not Hitler do the same to keep track of the Jews ? He did exactly the same that this is.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 14:32:05 GMT -5
A national ID system too risky Another video to consider. Less than 3 minutes long. Very interesting. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCP6vfduhpQI would rather become a slave to Jesus Christ than the federal government .
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 14:43:21 GMT -5
WANT TO LEARN HOW TO LEGALLY DESTROY THE CONSTITUTION ? 2 Timothy 1:7, "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." Will you allow Satan to fill your heart with fear to Bow Down to accepting this card, and surrendering your LIFE of FREEDOM to the feds. Watch this video, only 2 1/2 minutes long. www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIbNymjsDvA
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Post by tbxi on Aug 11, 2007 18:10:20 GMT -5
I remember when this was first happening, about 2 years ago or so. This is not new information. In 2008 (if I remember correctly), the REAL ID project will create a de facto national ID by forcing all of the states to live up to a certain standard of identification quality and format, including this unspecified data storage element.
I am against it. I am against national IDs as a whole. I wrote a paper against them as an assignment when I was in my last english comp class.
HOWEVER, those of you who are saying that this is going to be the mark of the beast are going just a little bit too far. I don't see this as anything but end-times paranoia, Left-Behind style. You do not know that this is going to usher in the Antichrist, and there is therefore no reason for you to be freaking out about the possibility and simply assuming that "this is it" - people have been saying that for millenia.
Nobody is going to take the mark of the beast by innocently signing up for their required national ID or a debit card or something. Everyone who takes the mark of the beast will know exactly what they are doing - bowing down to and WORSHIPPING the Beast as opposed to the true Lord Jesus Christ. So there is no need to fear that one is going to accidentally be forced into the lake of fire by signing up for a national ID that is intended, however wrongly, to fight international terrorism.
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Post by tonyholland on Aug 11, 2007 19:31:40 GMT -5
Well, the poll question is kind of loaded to begin with. "Bow down"? What is the problem? You already have (I assume) a state issued drivers license that has this same information which can be accessed by the federal government (simply running a query on NCIC will give you all of the info that is on the DL. I didn't see where anymore info is going to be asked for than what we are already being asked for. Well, one difference is one is Issued by the State and the other by National Laws. A big difference. A state license was originally issued to those people who were based on the states law ; able to operate a motor vehicle. These new cards are to keep track of all people. For some reason, I feel this is not right to my freedom. A drivers license was a benefit for me. But this card is a burden to me. I say there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. How is your drivers license any less of a burden to you than a national ID would be? As I mentioned before, drivers license information is accessible to the federal government also. No difference. I assume that you have a Social Security number? This is a federally required id number that has been around for years. This is just parroting what all of the other websites say. No new info here. WANT TO LEARN HOW TO LEGALLY DESTROY THE CONSTITUTION ? 2 Timothy 1:7, "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." I disagree with the war in Iraq also, but it this video has little to nothing to do with the ID card. It was, in fact, a political advertisement for Ron Paul. Bro, kind of rude to stick political commercials in your conversation without saying what it is. Your comment about allowing Satan to rule our hearts if we take the ID card is pretty out of line also. First, you are starting with the presupposition that the card is definitely the mark of the beast. I think Tyler spelled this out pretty well. It most certainly is not. Accepting the mark of the beast is your covenant to worship a idol during the end times. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Government wont' require us to worship idols if this happens. Frankly Rhema, the arguments that you are laying out are almost complete opinion, very little fact and a whole bunch of emotionalism. These are pretty much Alex Jones (who is a complete nutcase that believes everything from the government orchestrating the 9/11 attacks to Aliens have been discovered and are being kept under wraps by the US government.) and other conspiracy theorists tactics. Loud scary music, pictures of horrible people and acts, etc. Yes, there are unconstitutional things that we should go to the mat on, but you aren't giving up any more privacy with this id than you already have. My position? I don't care....if they do, fine, if they don't fine. It really makes little difference as there will be no more information available to the government that isn't already out there.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 11, 2007 20:13:42 GMT -5
Well Mr. Holland, no where do I state that recieving this card is reciving the mark of the beast. My question is, "Could it be the way for the Mark of The Beast ?" The scriptures clearly teach us in Revelation 13:17-18, "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
This card is set up for the feds. to track a person by certain means such as setting up a bank account and the such. Also I have read in the past that they want to use this card as a necessary means in purchasing any type of fuel. Again, this is a means to track down a person.
I do not know where you live sir, but I live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I just feel violated that the feds. would make me take a card or pay a penalty for not, in spending time in prison or pay large fines just to get information of where my person is located.
Sir, I do believe in the Bible and I do believe in Bible Prophecy. I bel;ieve in what the Book of Revelation teach about. There will be one day that the mark of the beast will be forced upon mankind.
My point is why would I give information to anyone of my person that may lead in the wrong hands for the future?
Like I stated prior, this is what Hitler began to do in the forefront with the Jewish people in his day.
And sir, for your informmation, I have not voted in over 10 years. I do not get into politics. I have no clue what this Ron Paul stands for or not. I thought the clip had good points to be made.
I study scriptures and when I see anything that might have substance regarding the scriptures, I feel it necessary to bring it up.
And sir, I do not believe in aliens nor do I believe that 911 was a cover up from the government. But I do believe that certain men have used 911 as scare tactics to have people in giving up their rights as American Citizens.
Once freedom is ripped from American soil, then will you see True Born Again Believers persecuted for their faith. AND though I know this to be a prophecy of OUR LORD towards all believers; I would rather not be persecuted so quickly being that we are so pampered with our state of religious freedoms. We are too soft right now.
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Post by tbxi on Aug 12, 2007 3:05:47 GMT -5
Once this card is installed, if I remember correctly, the governments of Canada and perhaps Mexico will have access to the same information. So if you want to "escape it", you either get to have no job and no bank account (and therefore, no car and no home), or you can move to someplace like Costa Rica, or you can try to fight it legislatively. The latter is your only option unless you want to leave the continent.
Once this comes into place, it is your job to obey the government as long as you are not disobeying God in the process (Romans 13) and maintain the resistance that you think you should, peacefully and properly. I seriously doubt that anyone can show that this is inevitably going to lead to the use of this information for the sorts of things you are talking about, so it will be difficult to justify disobeying the government on this issue. I completely agree that national ID's should not be implemented, and I agree that this sort of thing is what Nazi Germany used. However, just because Nazi Germany did something evil with tactic x does not mean that the U.S. government will necessarily do so.
Given the idea that is growing in popularity that we do not have to interpret the Constitution strictly according to what its writers actually intended it to mean, it will be more and more difficult to resist this sort of thing legally, but this seems to be the only feasible choice (unless, of course, you want to have no job and no home, or just leave the U.S. completely).
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Post by Kerrigan on Aug 12, 2007 8:56:18 GMT -5
Tyler said:
My sentiments exactly! You don't get the mark of the beast on accident. This is NOT a fulfillment of Revelation 13:16-18 if you ask me. Where's the Anti-Christ?
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Post by John McGlone on Aug 12, 2007 11:15:14 GMT -5
Revelation 13:17-18, "And that no man might buy or sell,Rhema, I think this is the lynch pin. As long as it is not a requirement to buy or sell then it should not be a problem. I do believe that all of these issues will eventually lead to the mark, but this is definately not the mark of the beast. Suppose this ID card evolved into carrying financial information. Then speculate the following steps: - All Natl ID's were required to transact any debit/credit card.
- Then the financial institutions ageed that debit/credit info would be put directly on the Natl ID, to make life simpler
- Finally, because people lose or have their ID's stolen, we should just put all the info on a microchip and imbed that into thier wrist or their forehead if they don't have arms.
Now that would be of great concern for Christians. Not that we should worry or fear; but to be prepared for the consequences of refusing to take this chip or mark that gives us the right to buy or sell. Lastly, as Rev K. rightly points out the Anti-christ must already be on the scene. A world leader who brings a temporary peace throughout this planet.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 12, 2007 11:17:48 GMT -5
Revelation 13:17-18, "And that no man might buy or sell,Rhema, I think this is the lynch pin. As long as it is not a requirement to buy or sell then it should not be a problem. I do believe that all of these issues will eventually lead to the mark, but this is definately not the mark of the beast. Suppose this ID card evolved into carrying financial information. Then speculate the following steps: - All Natl ID's were required to transact any debit/credit card.
- Then the financial institutions ageed that debit/credit info would be put directly on the Natl ID, to make life simpler
- Finally, because people lose or have their ID's stolen, we should just put all the info on a microchip and imbed that into thier wrist or their forehead if they don't have arms.
Now that would be of great concern for Christians. Not that we should worry or fear; but to be prepared for the consequences of refusing to take this chip or mark that gives us the right to buy or sell. I agree with you Sir. And like I stated prior, I never stated this to be the MARK. But a way for the MARK to come in.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 12, 2007 11:18:03 GMT -5
Matthew 24:21-24, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Revelation 19:20, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Revelation 13:12-18, "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
Do you believe that the Jewish people living under Hitlers regime had any clue what was to befall of them in the future? NO! Hitler's goal was the "purification" of the "Aryan race" through the elimination of "subhumans", which included Jews, gypsies, Asians, black Africans, and everyone else who was not a white Aryan. Hitler himself may not have had any clue of what the future held for him nor the Jewish people. It started slowly. First, he catagorized the citezens living in the country. His main goal was to have one union of people with the same mind and goal. Does this sound familiar. Remember the story of Babel in Genesis. Genesis 11:1-4, "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." Genesis 10:8-10, "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar." The beginning of his kingdoms were Babel (Confusion) , Erech (length, health, physic), Accad (vessel, pitcher, spark) and Calneh (Consummation, fulfillment). Was that not Hitlers goal? To take a nation after losing a war out of (CONFUSION). Then making it a nation of people of certain (PHYSIC). Then making it a (SPARK OR VESSEL) for God. And then making it a (FULFILLMENT) of God's WILL. Rather than basing his racism on any evolutionary theory, Hitler based it squarely on his view of white Aryans as the favored people of God. In fact, Hitler solemnly declares that his program of removing Jews and other "subhumans" from the earth is a divine task forced upon him by the Lord Almighty: "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproductionof our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purityof our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that ourpeople may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the Creator of the universe." Hitler concludes: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord," adding "Compared to the absurd catchword about safeguarding law and order, thus laying a peaceable groundwork for mutual swindles, the task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission." For Hitler, removing the subhumans from earth was not a matter of biology or evolution---it was a divine mandate from God Himself, the "work of the Lord", a "truly high mission".
Back to this ID CARD. It may sound innocent now. And like I stated previous, this is not the Mark of the Beast. But I do believe it is a way for the Mark to come through in the future. I do not believe as you have stated that the MARK OF THE BEAST will be clearly known. The WORD OF GOD teaches us that many will be deceived, even the very ELECT. Satan is not stupid. He is a very clever deceiver who hides in the DARK. That is why you have so many decieved believing LIES. Even some that are on this BOARD. What I believe is that this ID CARD will get people in a place of acceptance that you cannot PURCHASE nor do anything without the GOVERNMENT knowing. It will get the people into a place of Desensitization, so that when the Mark of the Beast is immplemented, it will be accepted by many. I also believe that the MARK OF THE BEAST will be a state of being and not some outward mark of anykind. Maybe a state of being in compliance with a GOVT. that will bow down to the prince of darkness in disobeying the ONLY TRUE LIVING GOD OF CREATION. One NATION UNDER GOD. But which God? Hitler failed his goal in his time. Satan used Hitler to teach man for future evils. This time, he may not fail in deceving a world of people. Only those whom are led of the HOLY SPIRIT will overcome. .
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Post by tonyholland on Aug 12, 2007 13:49:32 GMT -5
So your problem is not with the id card itself, but your opinion of what it may become?
If that is correct, you may want to reconsider stating that anyone accepting it is bowing down to the powers of Satan.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 12, 2007 14:10:15 GMT -5
So your problem is not with the id card itself, but your opinion of what it may become? If that is correct, you may want to reconsider stating that anyone accepting it is bowing down to the powers of Satan. Oh but, I do still believe that is is a tactic of Satan. So in a word, it is bowing down to Satan. Who would be behind in taking away the freedom of a man? I say it is Satan. Why would a person take this card ? Because of fear of what man can do. God has not given us the spirit of fear. A person who gives in because of fear, is giving in to the spirit of fear in which satan has given and not God. A person who gives up his right of freedom, is depending upon the Government of the United States in protecting them from all harm. Jeremiah 17:5-9, "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Did not the Jews do this during the time Jesus walked upon the face of this earth in flesh when Rome ruled. The religious leaders gave in to Roman powers for fear. Actually the Jewish religious leaders were in kahoots with Roman powers. Roman leaders used the Jewish leaders to keep the Jewish people in the dark and submitting to roman powers. When Jesus came along, HE began to bring enlightenment to what TRULY was going on. The Jewish leaders hated him for it.
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 15, 2007 13:23:30 GMT -5
That was a real eye opener. We do want to have wisdom, but hysteria is not the way to go... We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe. That's a wonderful promise.. Glad a balance about this whole thing has been brought. When I first heard about it yesterday, I became frantic because we are on social security. But today when balance was presented, I realized there's nothing to FEAR.. We are in the Lord's hands. It's not exactly great that this card is coming, but letting someone put a chip in my being, that's where we will draw the line. The Lord will protect us, we've got to TRUST HIM... That verse mentioned has a BIG IF in it from, Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect. It's not going to be possible to DECEIVE THE VERY ELECT. God is not limited in carrying us through what is coming down the road. Our faith is going to be tested, but we will have every provision of the Lord when things come to pass...
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Aug 15, 2007 20:35:15 GMT -5
1 Timothy 1:19, "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:"
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Post by rebecca on Aug 15, 2007 22:15:20 GMT -5
I believe the antichrist will go BEFORE the mark which is why I said I won't take it.How can you have one single worldwide recognizable symbol and just call it a coincidence such as the microchip implant.Certainly they aren't going to use a china marker for our identification.It makes since to me that this would be the symbol but their is no significance in the symbol like I said unless it is tide to the antichrist which I believe will go before the mark.
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Post by andrewcas on Aug 23, 2007 1:46:55 GMT -5
I'm an Amil, so i know the the mark of the best is somthing that has been forfilled in History maybe you should read up about the Roman Empire around the time of Nero.
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 23, 2007 1:53:09 GMT -5
andrewcas: The mark of the beast that the bible teaches has not occurred yet, but it will one day. Whatever happened in the Roman Empire in history is not fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelation that hasn't taken place. The anti-christ hasn't shown up yet.
By the way, welcome to this board, nice to have you. Hope you will be blessed by all the good things the Lord does here.
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Post by andrewcas on Aug 23, 2007 2:07:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome. But i'm sorry you are Badly mistaken. about the mark of the best, in roman culture people were also knewn by numbers and 666 was Neros number, plan and simple fact of History, at any means the mark of the best would be more of a thing that in the heart not so much on the flesh or even in it ie the chip theory. As i am sealed with the Holy Spirit thus meaning i have the mark of God on my life, a non believer who isn't elect has the mark of the beast.
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Post by rebecca on Aug 23, 2007 11:43:48 GMT -5
I heard James Robison say once that the mark in the hand and the forehead possibly meant actions and thoughts and maybe it wasn't a literal mark. I thought that was intersesting and something to consider. He said this a long time ago when I first got saved.
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