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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:06:31 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 21:06:31 GMT -5
As we all know, Easter is the Christian celebration of the crucifixion and renewal of Christ. But why is it celebrated on this particular day? Well, the holiday is set to fall on the Sunday after the Jewish passover, as is described in the New Testament. This is easily explainable. But another aspect of the holiday is somewhat confusing and difficult to understand.
What is WITH the eggs? Bunny rabbits? Pastel colors and grass filled baskets? I remember hiding eggs in the yard as a child and thinking, "What the hell has this got to do with that Jesus guy?" Okay so not quite in those words... but generally the same idea. I didn't get it. It wasn't until later, when I realized that Easter was really just a sabotaged Pagan holiday of rebirth and Springtime, absorbed by the Christian church in order to shut the Pagans up and discourage dissent, that it all made a little more sense. The same sort of thing happened with Christmas too.
Anyway, I was just wondering what people's thoughts on this might be. Christians, do you participate in non-Christian celebrations of Easter, or do you find them offensive/unnecessary? Non-Christians, do you celebrate Easter secularly or in a non-Christian way such as the Pagan celebrations of rebirth and fertility?
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:17:41 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 16, 2006 21:17:41 GMT -5
Well, I went white water rafting, but that is not a usual occurance.
Traditionally, my family has particpated in both the "Christian" aspects, that is remembering the crucifixion and such, but we have also celebrated the pagan rituals of the fertility which Spring brings. (I'm referring to the Eggs and the Rabbit, silly kids)
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:21:04 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 21:21:04 GMT -5
Ironically, I went canoeing today. ^_^
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:22:51 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Apr 16, 2006 21:22:51 GMT -5
Morluna, when my son was born 7 years ago I was not a believer. I told him all about Santa and the Easter Bunny. Once you start it, you have to keep up the pretense until they figure it out or you spill the beans. Well, for the past three years I have been convicted about how to celebrate holidays, since I know now the true reasons behind them. I could always squeeze Santa into the story of Jesus' birth by relating gift giving to the magi, etc. but honestly, all Santa did was distract my son from Christ. Even when I downplayed it severely. So this past year I resolved never to have Santa again. And, this past week, I had to go to my son (in tears) and ask his forgiveness for lying to him about Santa and the Easter Bunny (and the tooth fairy of course) I told him why I had done it, confessed, asked his forgiveness, and he was most understanding and forgiving of course. He wasn't mad, upset, or dissappointed. I think most kids are just worried they won't get the gifts - we're all selfish remember?? Anyway, this year we did a Gentile version of Passover meal, we still hunted eggs but the kids helped hide them. No bunnies though. Decorations were limited and we had a huge cross in our front yard with the sign "He lives" on it. Easter has pagan foundations, worshipping foreign gods, so it is idolatry. I do what I feel led to do. Some have stronger convictions than I. But I knew what was right to do (tell my son the truth and not lie to him) and if I had been disobedient I would have been in sin. Hope that answers your question.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:24:24 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Apr 16, 2006 21:24:24 GMT -5
by the way, Easter is the celebration of the crucifiction and RESURRECTION of Christ, not the renewal of Christ, but because of the resurrection, believers are able to be renewed (new creatures) when they are born again (or converted)
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:44:04 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 21:44:04 GMT -5
Yeah I know. Renewal, resurrection... regeneration... zombism... whatever you want to call it when his body became reanimated for 40 days after his crucifixion man, whatever. Maybe renewal wasn't the right word. I had just woke up from a nap when I wrote that. Sorry.
Jules: I've never heard of kids not hiding their own eggs... do most people do it another way? I don't know, I guess my parents always just made us aware that it was a game. I don't remember ever really believing in Santa or the Easter Bunny. I just thought it was a fun game for holidays, to pretend. My brother and I always hid eggs for my mom and she hid eggs for us. At Christmas we knew the presents were from our parents, but writing "From Santa" on presents and leaving cookies for him was just a fun game to play as kids. *shrugs* But I can see you're point. I was always very aware and conscious even as a child, but I guess some kids would be confused by it.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:48:27 GMT -5
Post by drsocc on Apr 16, 2006 21:48:27 GMT -5
Beware zombie-Jesus.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 21:59:46 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 21:59:46 GMT -5
Lol. MMMM... BRAAAAAINSSSSSS!!! xD
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:11:49 GMT -5
Post by drsocc on Apr 16, 2006 22:11:49 GMT -5
Testing Jesse's modding skillz in an easter-like fashion.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:12:43 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 22:12:43 GMT -5
xD I've seen that one before lol... That's wrong on so many levels...
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:15:50 GMT -5
Post by drsocc on Apr 16, 2006 22:15:50 GMT -5
No doubt. Still not down yet. Rock.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:29:58 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 16, 2006 22:29:58 GMT -5
Ummm...I hate to change the topic....But I think it's kind of related. So since we're talking about how we don't want to celebrate the aspects of Christianity that were adopted from other religions, why is everyone on this board (hecklers excepted) so hot about Hell? After all, it was adopted into Judaism from Zoroastrianism. Actually, lots of Christianity's commonplace ideas came from this, the former state religion of Persia.
For instance: 1. Ahura Mazda is the beginning and the end, the creator of everything which can and cannot be seen, the Eternal, the Pure and the only Truth.
2. Central to Zoroastrianism is the emphasis on moral choice; of life as a battle-ground between moral and immoral forces, represented by Spenta Mainyu and its satanic antithesis Angra Mainyu, the 'good spirit' and 'evil spirit' emanations of Ahura Mazda. Um...Satan ringing any bells? Teacher says whenever a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.
3. The belief in a future state
4. Rewards and punishments
5. The soul's immortality
6. The last judgement
7. Heaven and Hell
Anyway, since I have no children, I can't keep them pure from these evil Zoroastrian concepts. How do you guys handle this?
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:43:32 GMT -5
Post by drsocc on Apr 16, 2006 22:43:32 GMT -5
Repost in the theology section. They shoved all these threads here so they could ignor us.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 22:59:13 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 22:59:13 GMT -5
Ummm...I hate to change the topic....But I think it's kind of related. So since we're talking about how we don't want to celebrate the aspects of Christianity that were adopted from other religions, why is everyone on this board (hecklers excepted) so hot about Hell? After all, it was adopted into Judaism from Zoroastrianism. Actually, lots of Christianity's commonplace ideas came from this, the former state religion of Persia. For instance: 1. Ahura Mazda is the beginning and the end, the creator of everything which can and cannot be seen, the Eternal, the Pure and the only Truth.2. Central to Zoroastrianism is the emphasis on moral choice; of life as a battle-ground between moral and immoral forces, represented by Spenta Mainyu and its satanic antithesis Angra Mainyu, the 'good spirit' and 'evil spirit' emanations of Ahura Mazda.Um...Satan ringing any bells? Teacher says whenever a bell rings, an angel gets his wings. 3. The belief in a future state4. Rewards and punishments5. The soul's immortality6. The last judgement7. Heaven and HellAnyway, since I have no children, I can't keep them pure from these evil Zoroastrian concepts. How do you guys handle this? *nods* Great points Trekker. I forgot some of my religion history, but you're right. I remember studying Zoroastrianism in my New Testament class a couple of years ago. Can you confirm what I said about the Hebrews and monotheism related to the Egyptian belief? I think I'm remembering that correctly. Also, most of our ideas of Hell as firey and tumultuous and Heaven as light and airy come from Dante. Heh.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 23:03:50 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 16, 2006 23:03:50 GMT -5
*nods* Great points Trekker. I forgot some of my religion history, but you're right. I remember studying Zoroastrianism in my New Testament class a couple of years ago. Can you confirm what I said about the Hebrews and monotheism related to the Egyptian belief? I think I'm remembering that correctly. Also, most of our ideas of Hell as firey and tumultuous and Heaven as light and airy come from Dante. Heh. Well, it is very difficult to put a precise date on much of the ancient cultures, but some argue that Zoroaster was the first monotheist.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 23:06:18 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 16, 2006 23:06:18 GMT -5
*nods* Great points Trekker. I forgot some of my religion history, but you're right. I remember studying Zoroastrianism in my New Testament class a couple of years ago. Can you confirm what I said about the Hebrews and monotheism related to the Egyptian belief? I think I'm remembering that correctly. Also, most of our ideas of Hell as firey and tumultuous and Heaven as light and airy come from Dante. Heh. Well, it is very difficult to put a precise date on much of the ancient cultures, but some argue that Zoroaster was the first monotheist. Oh okay. Yeah I think I have heard that before. But I also thought that a lot of the ideas of "God" being in the sky came from the Egyptians god Amon Ra being attributed to the Sun.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 23:09:34 GMT -5
Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 16, 2006 23:09:34 GMT -5
I was on a campus the other day and saw a great sign that read, "what came first - the cross or the egg?"
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 23:15:50 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 16, 2006 23:15:50 GMT -5
I was on a campus the other day and saw a great sign that read, "what came first - the cross or the egg?" Umm....the egg. Chickens existed before the Romans began practicing capital punishment.
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Easter!
Apr 16, 2006 23:18:38 GMT -5
Post by drsocc on Apr 16, 2006 23:18:38 GMT -5
I was on a campus the other day and saw a great sign that read, "what came first - the cross or the egg?" Why was this a great sign?
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Easter!
Apr 17, 2006 9:59:43 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 17, 2006 9:59:43 GMT -5
Lol, I'm with Trek. Eggs totally came first.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 9:03:41 GMT -5
Post by victorialewis on Apr 18, 2006 9:03:41 GMT -5
I received a very enlightening article from Dennis Green the other day about the pagan roots of Easter. Believe it or not, not all Christians celebrate the day. If I can do it, I'll post the link here. www.christianlifeandliberty.net/news3.htm click on the Easter paganized article.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 12:23:10 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Apr 18, 2006 12:23:10 GMT -5
Repost in the theology section. They shoved all these threads here so they could ignor us. I don't think OAO's motive for moving some threads around was to ingore anyone, least of all the people on the board who have questions, which include you guys. Just wanted to make sure that no one here thinks your questions are not important, worthy, or valid. If we truly believe what we say we do, we should take the time to asnwer you. I have to admit I don't know much about the non-Judeo roots of monotheism, but I am learning much by reading your posts. My question to you guys (not sure if you are atheists, agnostics, or what you consider yourselves) would be: If you were God (even if you don't belive in Him) how would you have gone about "revealing yourself" to those you created? WHat do you think God's motive for creating anyone would have been? Just curious as to how you guys think about this - and for the record, can you guys let me know what your backgrounds are so I can understand where you are coming from better? I guess this should be in another thread - maybe I will move it.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 12:25:36 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Apr 18, 2006 12:25:36 GMT -5
and before someone mentions it, my apologies for the words misspelled. I get in a hurry and don't want to take the time to spell check, but because it is so annoying to you guys, I will try to make a better effort to do so. I'd rather you focus on the discussion and not the grammar. I seriously mean that, and am glad you guys are here.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 12:30:10 GMT -5
Post by Jules on Apr 18, 2006 12:30:10 GMT -5
Jules: I've never heard of kids not hiding their own eggs... do most people do it another way? I don't know, I guess my parents always just made us aware that it was a game. I don't remember ever really believing in Santa or the Easter Bunny. I just thought it was a fun game for holidays, to pretend. My brother and I always hid eggs for my mom and she hid eggs for us. At Christmas we knew the presents were from our parents, but writing "From Santa" on presents and leaving cookies for him was just a fun game to play as kids. *shrugs* But I can see you're point. I was always very aware and conscious even as a child, but I guess some kids would be confused by it. Morluna, sounds like you had a fairly balanced holidays growing up - not too much fantasy at least. I grew up thinking a big hairy rabbit hid the eggs. And that a winged fairy with bloody teeth flew all over the world leaving money. Ridiculous to think of now. But, I wasn't too damaged by it I suppose. I just thought that it was very hypocritical of me to teach my son it is wrong to lie, and then to lie to him about Easter and Christmas. If I am going to use the Ten Commandments and teach my son God's law as the standard by which we are judged and should live, I need to make no exceptions. It isn't OK to lie in some situations. It is always wrong. I believe in absolute truth. It would not make sense to believe that God's laws are relative in relation to an absolute truth. His laws are a reflection of His truth. Jesus was Truth, and He came to fulfill the law. All connected, kinda cool how the Bible does that
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 12:51:42 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 18, 2006 12:51:42 GMT -5
and before someone mentions it, my apologies for the words misspelled. I get in a hurry and don't want to take the time to spell check, but because it is so annoying to you guys, I will try to make a better effort to do so. I'd rather you focus on the discussion and not the grammar. I seriously mean that, and am glad you guys are here. Jules, thank you for your appreciative tone. I feel that it has been long in coming, but I am glad it has finally arrived. In regards to grammatical errors, I am not bothered by typos and the like. What bothers me is systematic problems, like not realizing that there is a difference between your and you're (and yore too, although that doesn't seem to be a problem). That's not what bothers me most though. My biggest issue is when the grammar is so bad that the meaning of the message is obscurred. That doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Thanks for your honesty and humility.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 12:53:42 GMT -5
Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 18, 2006 12:53:42 GMT -5
If you were God (even if you don't belive in Him) how would you have gone about "revealing yourself" to those you created? WHat do you think God's motive for creating anyone would have been? Just curious as to how you guys think about this - and for the record, can you guys let me know what your backgrounds are so I can understand where you are coming from better? I guess this should be in another thread - maybe I will move it. This probably would be more appropriate in a different thread, so as not to get away from the Easter debate. I will create the thread in World-View Debating and reply to your comments there.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 13:02:55 GMT -5
Post by valentine on Apr 18, 2006 13:02:55 GMT -5
If you were God (even if you don't belive in Him) how would you have gone about "revealing yourself" to those you created? WHat do you think God's motive for creating anyone would have been? Heh, I would have been a bit more clear, first of all, and said what I meant, not left an inconsistent record of my wishes to be twisted into sixty thousand different interpretations, and used as justification for various, myriad horrors. Just curious as to how you guys think about this - and for the record, can you guys let me know what your backgrounds are so I can understand where you are coming from better? I guess this should be in another thread - maybe I will move it. I agree it sounds like a question for another thread. But kudos to you, and I mean that sincerely, because this is the first post ever on this board that has actually expressed any concern or curiosity at all about who I am, what I believe, why I believe it and what happened in my life to cause me to believe it. And consequently, you're currently the only person on this board (that I disagree with) who I would even consider taking seriously. Actually, let me quote this again, just to make sure that all the admins and "regulars" got it: can you guys let me know what your backgrounds are so I can understand [/i][/u]where you are coming from better?[/quote] Jesse, Miles, Rev K, Josh, Evanschaible, etc, etc: I hope you read that. I hope you read it very, very carefully. Yelling at people to repent in all caps will make them laugh at you. Genuinely caring about their personal situations and wanting to learn will make them listen to you. Thank you, Jules. I would be happy to answer any of your questions in another thread.
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Easter!
Apr 18, 2006 21:17:26 GMT -5
Post by Morluna on Apr 18, 2006 21:17:26 GMT -5
As I said in the other thread, I second what Valentine said. Thank you Jules. You really are the first person on this board to express any concern for me as a human being and not just a "sinner." I sincerely appreciate your kindness and expressions of love. Thank you.
To answer your question, I am what I like to call a non-Christian follower of Jesus. I do not adhere to the whole of the Christian doctrine, but I do believe in the Creator, and I study the teachings of Jesus of Nazereth in order to understand my world and the best way to live. I also study many of the teachings of Buddhism and Chinese Daoist philosophies.
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Easter!
Apr 22, 2006 20:47:53 GMT -5
Post by dmclayton on Apr 22, 2006 20:47:53 GMT -5
all christian holidays have pagan foundations, ironically, because christianity itself is a religion that has inherited all of its symbolism from paganism--and judaism. the cross is not an original folks, sorry to disappoint, but the egyptian ankh is....and it too symbolized eternal life. the myth of isis as a mother goddess is played out in the virgin birth of christ by mary, now a saint--or goddess--in the catholic church. christmas is a pagan holiday in germany that involves tree worship. christ was not born on december twenty-fifth because the winters are too harsh for shepherds to field their sheep and sleep outside at night. the pope elected the day in favor that pagans would adopt christianity to their rituals, and they did. unfortunately, for the most part, missions is all about numbers and not about human souls or lives. christians have tried with enthusiam to save those dirty rascals, but in the end it only ends up hurting everyone. feel free to look up everything on google that i mentioned vaguely because i dont have the patience, time or desire to type it all out here. missions have caused the indirect death of millions of people throughout history turning tribes against each other or leaving before people get a grasp of the gospel and leaving them with bits and pieces of something that sounds like 'kill all unbelievers' in their native tongue. you do not have to believe it, but it is the christians' fault, and they are too blame, and the list keeps growing. no one seems to care.
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