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Post by Jesse Morrell on May 3, 2006 15:17:55 GMT -5
That's because you are a really bad person.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 3, 2006 15:31:22 GMT -5
Yes, I've read Dante's Inferno. And only pieces of Paradise Lost.
Morluna, I know that you were speaking of Lucifer from Paradise's lost standpoint. My comment was satirical in nature in regards to "feeling sorry" for Lucifer.
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 15:44:08 GMT -5
revelation is fascinating, so much metaphor...so much fantasy! however, i only said what i said to get that very reaction out of you.
"I would rather die to this life and all its folly with hope (certainty) of being in the presence of God eternally, than to trample the blood of Christ underfoot and remain under the wrath of my Creator."
note: i said the opposite above, and you merely turned it around. christians like to do that with the world to make it fit to their ideology. you are like the calvin klein t-shirts i see at christian bookstores when i go to pick up a new book. christ king. hehe. you are all guilty of borderline copyright infringement, and i do not mean with consumer products. christianity is a borrowed faith, my friend. the cross was adapted from the egyptian ankh. the cross is the symbol of christianity! go figure, and it was stolen.
see. i am wrong, and i admit it. unregenerate is a word. however, i would never have typed that if i were not too lazy to look it up. you know how it is... ...a word doesn't look right sometimes, even the simple ones when you're spelling it out on paper. you got me there, be proud.
you are right in one respect. i was never desirable before god, even when i was a 'believer' years ago. i was never saved to begin with contradictory to popular opinion. i was baptised at an early age and lived the life until i was old enough to think for myself. i lived the christian life out of fear of punishment, not from god per say, but from my parents. however, i started questioning my faith at about twelve or thirteen and ive been on a downward spiral to hell ever since. i am no atheist, mind you, because i do not know if god exists, nor can i prove it one way or another.
the last thing i want to touch on is what you said in your first reply to my last reply. haha. confusing, eh? here it is, regardless: "it is the unpardonable sin"
there is actually debate concerning this passage of which you make reference. the unpardonable sin, as you call it, or blasphemy against the spirit (matthew 12:31) is said to be--as you said--one who denies christ. however, i disagree with this interpretation. why? peter, the rock, denied christ three times. do you believe that peter is in hell? i do not, and i am not even a christian. the only probable answer to this passage is if it is speaking of continued disbelief to one's deathbed. there is no sin, in life, that cannot be forgiven according to my understanding of scripture. however, and i know you will throw this at me, this does not give men like me the permission to sin. i do what i want to regardless of god's existence. anyway, the other debate that is extremely heated, and controversial, is that this passage is actually addressing suicide.
how can you pray for forgiveness if you take your own life? your life is a sacred gift from god, and exterminating it without god's permission, or when it is 'not your time' would not put you on god's happy list.
i will not add anything else to that because its only something to consider and makes no difference in theological views. so, all sin can be forgiven unless it is habitual sin (sins that hypocritical christians pray for forgiveness on and then do it again the next day, on a regular basis) or someone like me who lives a life of continued disbelief. anyway, that is your theology lesson for the day. i hope you had fun.
oh, and some departing words. this is not directed to you, jules, unless you consider yourself to be like jesse and find him to be in no wrong. one of my favorite verses...
Matthew 23:15 (words of christ) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
amen.
p.s. we should have a revelation duel. there is nothing like fire, brimstone and astrology and calling it christianity.
p.s.s. i have noticed a strange phenomenon. you, jules, and other christians on this board have a nasty habit of calling people like me fools, yet the bible says that a man who calls another a fool will be judged sevenfold. however, matthew seems to be the book of the day, and according to my translation it says '...will be in danger of hellfire.' matthew 5:22
this goes for you, and anyone else, try not challenge me on the context of scripture because...to be quaint...i am not a fool. i know the bible backwards and forwards, like the devil, so i am not going to bow down to any of your excuses or wild explanations of what something 'really means.'
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Post by justaman on May 3, 2006 16:03:04 GMT -5
You're not a slave of God, you're using God to enslave, there's a difference XD.
I thought about the argument you made about Hitler where we get the fact that killing is wrong. Well, that's easy, it's in about every teaching out there.
Are we saying that just because we hold one morallity that you believe true we must hold all of them true? You'll have to try a little harder then that. I mean I could say by that parrallel that these two quotes would lead to the same outcome:
"Harboring Jews were the reason we lost WWI" "9/11 was caused because of all the sinners we harbor."
History is your enemy... good luck fighting it.
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 16:05:03 GMT -5
history is an enemy christianity must own up to, because the past of this religion has such a disfigured face that no sane person would want to look upon it.
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Post by justaman on May 3, 2006 16:18:58 GMT -5
Yes, Christianity has destroyed many, but we all have bad eggs in our ancestory. I forgive the Christians of today that practice their religion because they had no hand in the past, just as the white Americans of my generation are not at fault for enslaving the blacks.
However, what these gentlemen do is show that ugly side of Christianity that has caused the bloodspill of those that oppose them, which causes the job of the other believes to be harder. Like the white redneck racist in the bar spewing off condesendencies to blacks does to those whites that are tolerent.
Sadly, vengence and anger are strong addictions of the heart, just as liquor or sex (so I heard).
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 16:58:05 GMT -5
i'll drink to that...
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 17:42:46 GMT -5
sorry, but I don't know how to respond individually to comments with the little boxes, so this is the best I could do to address your comments dmclayton...
clayton said: however, i only said what i said to get that very reaction out of you.
note: i said the opposite above, and you merely turned it around. christians like to do that with the world to make it fit to their ideology.
Your words are not worth turning around clayton, just spoke my mind.
see. i am wrong, and i admit it. unregenerate is a word. you got me there, be proud. I'm not going to be proud, just simply pointing out the difference between the two.
you are right in one respect. i was never desirable before god, even when i was a 'believer' years ago. i was never saved to begin with contradictory to popular opinion. i was baptised at an early age and lived the life until i was old enough to think for myself. i lived the christian life out of fear of punishment, not from god per say, but from my parents. however, i started questioning my faith at about twelve or thirteen and ive been on a downward spiral to hell ever since. i am no atheist, mind you, because i do not know if god exists, nor can i prove it one way or another.
You were never saved clayton, you are what is referred to as a false convert. The product of modern evangelism, unfortunately. Millions are just like you, skeptical, angry, and confused about what their past truly means in light of scripture. If you know the Bible "forwards and backwards" as you say, what does scripture tell you about your own experience? Do you think you were ever truly in the faith? I was baptised and walked an aisle at a young age too, and thought I was saved. But I didn't repent until a few years ago. I know without a doubt if I had died before then, I would have gone straight to hell, baptismal certificate in hand. SItuations like yours anger me, not because it is "your fault" but because man has changed the gospel, distorted it, and what we have left doesn't cause men to repent, it doesn't regard God's sovereignty, and there is a misconception about fearing God. I think we should start a thread about fearing God, it keeps coming up over and over again.
the last thing i want to touch on is what you said in your first reply to my last reply. haha. confusing, eh? here it is, regardless: "it is the unpardonable sin"
there is actually debate concerning this passage of which you make reference. (I know) peter, the rock, denied christ three times. do you believe that peter is in hell? (No, because he repented, but primarily because he was chosen, and according to Jesus, those whom He calls, he keeps, it is Jesus' "job" read John chapter 6. When the multitudes turned away from following Christ...
64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."
70Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
how can you pray for forgiveness if you take your own life? your life is a sacred gift from god, and exterminating it without god's permission, or when it is 'not your time' would not put you on god's happy list.
I totally agree with you for a change! I don't believe that someone who is regenerate, a true believer, and is bearing fruit (the only kind of person who will be in heaven according to scripture) would ever even consider taking their life. Some will disagree, but suicide is not compatible with what scripture teaches about the spiritual man, who is born again.
oh, and some departing words. this is not directed to you, jules, unless you consider yourself to be like jesse and find him to be in no wrong. one of my favorite verses...
Matthew 23:15 (words of christ) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
I am not a hypocrite, so it doesn't apply to me, although I do take the warning of the Lord very seriously. Thank you for the reminder.
p.s.s. i have noticed a strange phenomenon. you, jules, and other christians on this board have a nasty habit of calling people like me fools, yet the bible says that a man who calls another a fool will be judged sevenfold. however, matthew seems to be the book of the day, and according to my translation it says '...will be in danger of hellfire.' matthew 5:22
I call you a fool because according to the Bible, you are one. Your unbelief makes you a fool. You say you have unbelief. Psalm 53:1, Psalm 74:18, 22; Proverbs 1:7, Proverbs 14:3, 9...for starters, these verses represent your views and attitude perfectly.
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Post by dmclayton on May 4, 2006 0:15:40 GMT -5
psalm 53:1 the fool hath said in his heart there is no god.
this was plucked right from my memory, except i laughed because i said in my last post, 'i am no atheist.' i am agnostic. i admit that god's existence is beyond my own knowledge, although should i ever come to terms with christianity being a true faith then i would accept it. i am not the type of person that would ignore something staring me in the face. unfortunately, i know where that statement will lead me, because you will say that it is staring me in the face and the proof is everywhere! sorry, i don't see it... ...yet.
you need to listen more. here is what i said, "i was never saved to begin with..." here is what you said, "you were never saved clayton" and then you went on about me reading the bible and telling me to read for myself.
i already know that. sheesh. like i said, i know the bible...
also, you do not have to post verses for me unless they are posted for everyone, not just me. i am fully capable of looking them up in any of the translations of the bibles i own. and last, calling someone a fool--or any insult--is wrong regardless of its intention or 'greater truth' and even someone like you should know that. try not to insult people by using biblical loopholes, and i'll do the same for you.
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