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Post by ewo0d68 on Apr 28, 2006 20:06:26 GMT -5
getting drunk is a sin??
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 28, 2006 21:03:28 GMT -5
Pr 20:1 -Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Eph 5:18 - And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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Post by dmclayton on Apr 30, 2006 8:45:06 GMT -5
note: the verses listed above only mentions debachery, not a healthy and/or responsible consumption of alcohol.
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Post by valentine on Apr 30, 2006 9:14:13 GMT -5
note: the verses listed above only mentions debachery, not a healthy and/or responsible consumption of alcohol. Yep--and that would make practical sense to me because getting drunk=dangerous, and could cause you to harm others through irresponsible activity (driving, etc). That would definitely not be permissable to me. But I don't understand where the Admins and company are getting that a moderate amount of alcohol is immoral. It's actually very healthy for your heart. (And yes, science has proven this. ) Disclaimer: For personal reasons, I do not and will not drink until it is legal in my country.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 30, 2006 13:14:43 GMT -5
Jesus turned the water into wine. Now that's my kind of miracle.... ^_-
Getting drunk to the point of throwing up and going home with a stranger only to wake up later and say, "Where am I and who did I just shag?" is what the Bible warns against. In my opinion, it's like every other law in the Bible... it's to protect us against harm. Personally, I enjoy drinks and have even been known to get drunk occasionally, but I always make sure I only do so among small gatherings of close friends. I can't understand people that want to get smashed at huge parties full of people they don't know and can't trust to take care of them... but I guess that's their choice.
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Post by dmclayton on May 1, 2006 23:10:42 GMT -5
i agree. i do not get drunk--i enjoy brain activity--but i also enjoy a nice margarita after a long day's work. wink, wink jesse doesn't even have a job so that freeloader couldn't buy alcohol even if he wanted to so he preaches against it.
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Post by biblethumper on May 2, 2006 19:21:56 GMT -5
Jesus did NOT turn water into ALCOHOLIC wine, Morluna.
The Greek word oinos was used for the juice of grapes in general, meaning it COULD be intoxicating AS WELL AS simply grape juice.
Contextually, Jesus Christ would never have given intoxicating wine at that wedding party, as, being the Son of God, He would never cause drunkeness NOR fetal alcohol syndrome, as the marriage couple would consumate their vows after the party.
You have a filthy mouth, you blasphemer and I pray that God would save your wretched soul from hell!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on May 2, 2006 19:23:52 GMT -5
I'd agree, God did give us laws to protect us against harm. Living against His will would certainly cause us a world of hurt...an eternal world of hurt.
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Post by Morluna on May 2, 2006 20:37:43 GMT -5
Jesus did NOT turn water into ALCOHOLIC wine, Morluna. The Greek word oinos was used for the juice of grapes in general, meaning it COULD be intoxicating AS WELL AS simply grape juice. Contextually, Jesus Christ would never have given intoxicating wine at that wedding party, as, being the Son of God, He would never cause drunkeness NOR fetal alcohol syndrome, as the marriage couple would consumate their vows after the party. You have a filthy mouth, you blasphemer and I pray that God would save your wretched soul from hell! *clutches her chest to recover from laughing* I... I'm sorry... did you just suggest that a fetus can develop FAS on the NIGHT of its conception? I think you are in need of a basic biology class, my dear. Also, think about the logic of what you are saying here. Think of the context of this situation (the wedding party). Do you honestly believe that any self respecting father of the bride would serve GRAPE JUICE at his daughter's wedding? At that time, it was often dangerous to drink water because of germs and such... so people often drank wine with their food. This is still the case in much of Europe today, particularly in Germany I believe the drinking water is so bad that people usually drink beer instead. It isn't a matter of "let's get crunk!!!" It's just safer and healthier to drink wine or beer. Soooo... during Jesus' life drinking wine would have been very very common. Grape juice... not so much. You really are twisting things to the best of your ability though... kudos for that. (Btw it is kudos and not kudoos. Just FYI.)
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Post by josh on May 2, 2006 22:34:31 GMT -5
I find the whole Jesus turning water into wine thing very interesting. If you were to look at the Jewish culture anything rottern was considered unclean, and they weren't even to touch it, not to mention partake of it.
If we are to look at wine, what does it take to make it become intoxicating? It takes the grape to become rottern, and ferment. Surely this should go to show that no self respecting Jew would partake of it?
Plus then a small ammount of grape juice was used in the water a purification in those days, and that was called wine. But in todays language we would probably just call it flavoured water.
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Post by josh on May 2, 2006 22:36:35 GMT -5
note: the verses listed above only mentions debachery, not a healthy and/or responsible consumption of alcohol. Thats an interesting note, how did you reach that conclusion?
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 3, 2006 0:40:58 GMT -5
At that time, it was often dangerous to drink water because of germs and such... so people often drank wine with their food. This is still the case in much of Europe today, particularly in Germany I believe the drinking water is so bad that people usually drink beer instead. It isn't a matter of "let's get crunk!!!" It's just safer and healthier to drink wine or beer. Soooo... during Jesus' life drinking wine would have been very very common. Grape juice... not so much. You really are twisting things to the best of your ability though... kudos for that. (Btw it is kudos and not kudoos. Just FYI.) Just a cultural note: The drinking water in Germany is probably cleaner than the average drinking water in the United States. The Germans are obsessed with cleanliness. Even so, the cultural beliefs are so strong that the Germans still cringe at the thought of drinking water from the tap. As a matter of fact, if an American orders Leitungswasser (Tap Water), the waiter will usually ask if the guest means Stilleswasser (Noncarbobated bottled water). It took me almost five minutes of German to convince a waiter in Stuttgart that my father indeed wanted water from the sink. He even switched to English because of his confusion. Cultural norms can be powerful. The Jews did consume alcohol in the time of Jesus, and do so today.
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 2:07:43 GMT -5
fermentation. this is what separates the two. wine is fermented grape juice. grape juice is unfermented wine. haha. what is so hard to accept that jesus drank 'honest to god' wine without getting drunk? i am an agnostic and i don't even find that hard to believe.
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Post by Morluna on May 3, 2006 6:18:22 GMT -5
At that time, it was often dangerous to drink water because of germs and such... so people often drank wine with their food. This is still the case in much of Europe today, particularly in Germany I believe the drinking water is so bad that people usually drink beer instead. It isn't a matter of "let's get crunk!!!" It's just safer and healthier to drink wine or beer. Soooo... during Jesus' life drinking wine would have been very very common. Grape juice... not so much. You really are twisting things to the best of your ability though... kudos for that. (Btw it is kudos and not kudoos. Just FYI.) Just a cultural note: The drinking water in Germany is probably cleaner than the average drinking water in the United States. The Germans are obsessed with cleanliness. Even so, the cultural beliefs are so strong that the Germans still cringe at the thought of drinking water from the tap. As a matter of fact, if an American orders Leitungswasser (Tap Water), the waiter will usually ask if the guest means Stilleswasser (Noncarbobated bottled water). It took me almost five minutes of German to convince a waiter in Stuttgart that my father indeed wanted water from the sink. He even switched to English because of his confusion. Cultural norms can be powerful. The Jews did consume alcohol in the time of Jesus, and do so today. Oh wow, that's interesting about the Germans. (I figured you would have some good input on this ^_-) I always heard the water was just really bad there for some reason. Clayton: Seriously. They twist things ridiculously to fit their own prejudices. I see this so much in Americans as compared to other cultures... in America, the idea of "getting drunk" is so much more prevalent than other parts of the world. Anywhere else, especially in Europe, alcohol appears at almost every meal and it's no big deal. Geez... do they think it's a sin to be overweight? Almost everything is bad in excess! Alcohol is no different!
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 16:09:48 GMT -5
hehe, actually......obesity is considered one of the seven deadly sins by the catholic church. speaking of catholics, ive had this desire to dress as a priest and blaspheme all over town. grocery stores, book stores, bars, you name it.... i want people to see a man in cloth going in a bar with a scantily dressed woman, my wife, smoking and boozing it up while screaming profanities at the bartender for making my white russian too milky. do you think impersonating is a crime, like impersonating a cop? haha. (think of the reactions people would have)
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Post by ejuliot on May 3, 2006 19:01:06 GMT -5
hehe, actually......obesity is considered one of the seven deadly sins by the catholic church. speaking of catholics, ive had this desire to dress as a priest and blaspheme all over town. grocery stores, book stores, bars, you name it.... i want people to see a man in cloth going in a bar with a scantily dressed woman, my wife, smoking and boozing it up while screaming profanities at the bartender for making my white russian too milky. do you think impersonating is a crime, like impersonating a cop? haha. (think of the reactions people would have) You are sick! You need to repent!
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Post by cervyy on May 3, 2006 21:14:14 GMT -5
I think we just saw such a reaction. It does sounds like a hoot though, if I saw it I'd die of laughter (probably one of my ideal ways to go too).
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Post by dmclayton on May 4, 2006 7:50:14 GMT -5
exactly.
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