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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 18:41:59 GMT -5
This topic came up in the "Is abortion immoral?" thread over at Doctrine and Theology, so I decided to make a new thread for it here as it was a little off topic there.
What are you feelings on stem cell research? Should it be allowed? Is it immoral? What are your reasons for feeling the way you do about it?
I'll elaborate on my personal feelings surrounding it in a moment... but for now I'll just say that I definitely think it should be made legal, and research should be directly funded by our federal government.
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Post by hopefulheart on May 1, 2006 18:49:00 GMT -5
Could you please provide a little more information on this topic? I Think I know what it's about, but I'd like to be sure before I start making a case. Please and thank you Morluna darling =)
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 19:20:55 GMT -5
Oh sure thing, sorry about that.
Well... basically... and I don't claim to be a scientist so I'm not solid on all of the details... but essentially you can take the stem cells (neural cells - "stem" = like brain stem) from either an umbilical cord after birth or the cells from a fertilized zygote (egg and sperm in early EARLY stages of conception... like.. we're talking days, when it's still at very small multicellular form) and replicate them (make more of them), then make them into whatever kind of cell you want. You can essentially take stem cells and turn them into any body cell: muscle tissue, heart cells, brain cells, liver, kidney... whatever you need! Then you can literally grow body parts from these tiny stem cells. What does this mean for the medical community? Say little Timmy is in a car accident and damages his stomach when an object cuts into his side... Timmy goes to the hospital... the surgeon gives Timmy a new stomach because his is severely damaged. Alternative: Timmy dies from internal poisoning when his stomach juices seep into the surrounding tissues. If there is no available donar stomach, Timmy is just out of luck. With stem cells, the hospital can have a stomach in stock for Timmy's blood type, ready made.
And just so you guys know, this is not all theoretical. The above scenario has been successfull in the international community. I believe several individuals have received new limbs like legs and arms, as well as internal organs. EXCITING!!!
Unfortunately... our wonderful resident monkey in office president has passed laws making stem cell research illegal in America. No research at ALL, period.
The mainstream Christian community is generally against it because they say using zygotes is immoral and a form of abortion. Many communities stand by this even in the case of mass produced zygotes used for in vetro fertilization. (Legislators in the US had originally proposed making the use of these zygotes, which would otherwise be thrown in the trash anyway, legal. This too was eventually dubbed illegal.)
Does that help your understanding of the idea at all?
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Post by hopefulheart on May 1, 2006 19:38:42 GMT -5
Hmm, yes, thank you, that does clarify!
My initial response to this was, "No... the end doesn't justify the mean. Sacrificing life is not acceptable."
However, you made an interesting point I'd like to talk about more:
Most of this argument is based on your definition of when life begins. Science and politics, however, only offer mixed answers at best. The only clear answer comes from religion: Thou shalt not kill
I stand by that. Making sacrifices for the 'greater good' is a sure sign of corruption.
So the key thing to look into in this scenario is, "Is a sacrifice being made?" or "Is a sacrifice being made that wouldn't be made anyway?"
I personally believe that life begins at conception. In which case yes, a sacrifice is being made simply by storing all of those zygotes for in-vitro fertilization to begin with. Having the zygotes available to be thrown away in the first place is a problem, so no, I don't support stem cell research.
Let's say we do allow them to take the leftover zygotes. How quick do you think someone's going to be willing to recalculate how many they need to store? Or what if, worse, they just happen to increase that calculation? They're going to Want excess for research purposes. More death...
Still, though, I don't believe in pressing my views on others. There they are, take what you will, or not, s'all good =)
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Post by Morluna on May 1, 2006 19:43:56 GMT -5
Thanks Hopeful. Well, we differ in our ideas concerning when life begins, so that's going to affect how we feel about this issue. I personally don't believe life begins until there is complex brain activity going on in the fetus, which is around 18 weeks I think? So that's very different from your view. Therefore, I think it's just fine to mass produce zygotes for this purpose, whereas you would disagree.
Thanks for your thoughts. ^_^
*really IS going now* Ugh, I'm gross and need a bath. xB
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 1, 2006 22:47:00 GMT -5
A little clarification on the stored embryos:
So we have this little thing called in vitro fertilization here in the United States. It is used for couples who cannot concieve naturally, but who want to have their own children. Because the process is expensive and difficult, it is done in a way that guarantees success.
Several (say 10) eggs are extracted from a female. These eggs are injected with her partner's sperm. Some will fail to fertilize. It is very possible that only one, or even none of the eggs will be fertized. It is also possible that several (3 or more) will be fertilized. Another barrier is that not all embryos will survive in the womb. If the couple only wants to have one child, that leaves two (or more) embryos. These embryos are frozen. If the couple wants another child, say 10 months later, they can opt to try pregnancy again.
At any rate, because of the need to have more embryos than desired in order to ensure success, there is a surplus of embryos. These embryos are frozen for a given period of time, then they are destroyed.
At this point, I believe it should be possible, with the consent of the sperm and egg donors, that the embryo be used for stem cell research. At least in this manner, it won't be being destroyed in vain.
Again, it may be an issue of where you believe life begins.
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 13:03:39 GMT -5
Thanks Hopeful. Well, we differ in our ideas concerning when life begins, so that's going to affect how we feel about this issue. I personally don't believe life begins until there is complex brain activity going on in the fetus, which is around 18 weeks I think? So that's very different from your view. Therefore, I think it's just fine to mass produce zygotes for this purpose, whereas you would disagree. Morluna, if life is validated by complex brain activity, are autistic children to be killed when we discover they are inferior with regard to their brain activity? Do we kill those in a coma who have limited brain activity? Do we kill ALL mentally handicapped people? Where do you draw the line? Just WHO has "enough" brain activity? And what is "Complex" enough? What are you talking about here?
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Post by dmclayton on May 3, 2006 16:13:56 GMT -5
this is probably one of the only topics that i know very little about. i keep tabs on all controversial topics that lock politics and religion into one arena. however, this one managed to slip by me, but maybe it was the science of it all that didn't appeal to me. i am not much of a scientist. i am fond of the social sciences myself, and curious as to why people, like christians, act the way they do. stem cell reasearch, to keep it in the range of the topic is fairly interesting enough. i find it fascinating that all of the world powers are harnessing this science for the good of mankind...
...except us.
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Post by Morluna on May 13, 2006 20:38:48 GMT -5
Thanks Hopeful. Well, we differ in our ideas concerning when life begins, so that's going to affect how we feel about this issue. I personally don't believe life begins until there is complex brain activity going on in the fetus, which is around 18 weeks I think? So that's very different from your view. Therefore, I think it's just fine to mass produce zygotes for this purpose, whereas you would disagree. Morluna, if life is validated by complex brain activity, are autistic children to be killed when we discover they are inferior with regard to their brain activity? Do we kill those in a coma who have limited brain activity? Do we kill ALL mentally handicapped people? Where do you draw the line? Just WHO has "enough" brain activity? And what is "Complex" enough? What are you talking about here? Complex brain activity... like... you know.. the point at which signals begin being sent through neural tissues making up the early growth of a brain, rather than the earlier loose fibers of simple nerve endings. I guess I meant brain activity in general, rather than COMPLEX activity per se. Basically, once brain tissue begins forming and brain signals are being sent, I believe it's alive. A speck of cells is not alive, in my opinion. What I said had nothing to do with mentally challenged persons. I'd be a pretty messed up individual if I advocated the abortion or murder of ability challenged individuals, seeing as I am one myself... hahah... PS: Why did this thread die? *pouts*
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 14, 2006 16:11:21 GMT -5
Stem cell research is the pinacle of modern medicine. Of course, this will be extended when people literally clone people. To create or destroy at whim. The ultimate act of playing god. Not only will we be able to take life, but we will soon be able to make life. Dr.Frankenstein's dream realized.
Some people don't want us to play god. But, As beautiful as religion is....
quote- "There is beauty in religion And joy and love and hope We're all looking for an answer Some colossal cosmic cause But who the beep are you To turn your views into my laws?"
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 16, 2006 11:36:48 GMT -5
GREAT SONG!
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 16, 2006 15:17:03 GMT -5
google, Keep your jesus off my penis
Music video is there too!
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 16, 2006 15:19:42 GMT -5
its not supposed to say thingy
PE NIS
STOP FILTERING YOUR LIFE YOU UNSAVED CHRISTIANS!!!!
The FSM will judge you, and you will boil in meatball sauce if you continue down this unrighteous path.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 19, 2006 15:59:16 GMT -5
mary shelley, not dr. frankenstein....
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Post by Morluna on May 19, 2006 17:59:03 GMT -5
I think you could go either/or on that one.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 20, 2006 6:34:28 GMT -5
i mistook 'confess your sins' for 'contest of sin'...so now i go to church to sin. after all, when talking about christians these days...monkey see, monkey do.
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