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Post by rebecca01 on Jun 2, 2006 7:52:38 GMT -5
What makes a person an atheist? Is there such a thing is an atheist? I don't believe that there is. The bible says that "the fool says in his heart that there is no God." What that is saying is; "of course there is a God!"
The bible says in that same passage of scripture that "they are corrupt, they have done abominable works." Psalm 14:1
Something has corrupted them and caused them to turn against God. Maybe they were raised in a family full of atheist or people who were just plain bitter towards God for whatever reason. Maybe they were molested by a preist or hurt by someone who professed to be a christian. Maybe they are just discouraged with life and need quick answers and they are bitter towards God because He requires faith. Only the atheist can answer this question for themselves. Maybe they hate themselves because why would someone want to go through life pretending they believe something they know is not true and drive themselves further and further away from God?
The bible also says that they have done abominable works. So not only are they being corrupted but they either have witnessed abominable acts or take part in them. Atheist never seem to have any answers as to why they believe the way they do so they will act in detestable ways to poke fun at christianity. If you look on some of their websights they have things like speghetti monsters that they call their god.I even saw a baby no more than one year old with a speghetti monster on his head.
I encourage atheist if you want to get help stay away from the people who are corrupting you.You should not get angry with people when they don't take your beliefs seriously because atheist themselves do not take themselves seriously.That doesn't mean that anyone has a right though to treat you disrespectfully or unkindly.
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Post by valentine on Jun 2, 2006 9:27:10 GMT -5
Something has corrupted them and caused them to turn against God. Maybe they were raised in a family full of atheist or people who were just plain bitter towards God for whatever reason. Maybe they were molested by a preist or hurt by someone who professed to be a christian. Maybe they are just discouraged with life and need quick answers and they are bitter towards God because He requires faith. Only the atheist can answer this question for themselves. Maybe they hate themselves because why would someone want to go through life pretending they believe something they know is not true and drive themselves further and further away from God? Or maybe that's just the way they've come to interpret the world. I like you, Rebecca, and I think you are trying. But try to take a step back and realize that not all atheists believe what they believe because something horrifying happened to them. I don't assume that about Christians, and I think y'all are quite welcome to believe whatever you want about the universe as long as it isn't hurting anyone. I also don't assume that you believe what you believe because you are evil/stupid/traumatized. Is this directed to atheists? If not, I'd like to point out that you do not have the right to treat anyone "disrespectfully or unkindly," and I don't care if they worship Big Bird. Also, let's not assume that atheists "do not take themselves seriously." I know many who would beg to differ. Personally, I am agnostic, and if anyone accused me of not taking my beliefs seriously, I would be heavily offended. I think you need to do a little bit more research, and maybe have some conversations with (gasp!) real, live atheists. I mean conversations where you are seeking to LEARN, not ones in which you attempt to convert them from their "sins." As in, go up to somebody you trust enough to have such a conversation and say, "Hey, I'm curious--would you mind explaining to me why you're an atheist?" Or maybe even, "Here's how I see things... how do you see them?" People fear what they do not understand. Understanding is the first step to eliminating misconceptions like these. I had to do this myself a few years back when I was (irrationally) angry at Christianity as a whole because of my past, and it has definitely served me well. I'm not saying you need to let them "convince" you. Merlin knows that I didn't get "convinced." But I did learn. And understand. And, eventually, accept. That's helped me move on from the people who hurt me, recognize that I had a biased sample of Christianity, and treat others with the respect they deserve.
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Post by biblethumper on Jun 2, 2006 9:38:29 GMT -5
Becca...man is born with a nature bent on corruption...it is not something aquired nor learned through environment (as you stated, family ect etc)
Sin is sociological, psychological or any other icl
Sin is the transgression of the law.
You also state that "something corrupted them and cause dthem to turn from God".
No..
This is humanism, which I believe everyone here will agree with.
The Bible makes clear that is NONE that seek after God.
Nothing cause sanyone to "turn from God"; those who are not Born Again cannot turn from what they have never experienced.
The Bible makes plain that no one comes to the Lord unless he or she is first drawn by the Holy Spirit.
While we wer eyet ENEMIES of God, Christ died for us.
People do not become corrupt because of abominable works; people ARE corrupt and thus practice abominations, showing their true nature.
We must present to non-believers the Gospel in a light which is absolutely correct; otherwise, the God we present, as Paris Reidhead states, will be nothing more than the God of humanism.
I believe your intent was sincere and noble, but your post is not the Gospel and will benefit no heathen.
They must understand they are condemned...not because of environment, family, "becoming" corrupted, etc etc...they must understand it is because of enmity with God, based solely on their rejection of God's Moral Law and the Redemptive Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on Jun 2, 2006 9:44:37 GMT -5
Something has corrupted them and caused them to turn against God. Maybe they were raised in a family full of atheist or people who were just plain bitter towards God for whatever reason. Maybe they were molested by a preist or hurt by someone who professed to be a christian. Maybe they are just discouraged with life and need quick answers and they are bitter towards God because He requires faith. Only the atheist can answer this question for themselves. Maybe they hate themselves because why would someone want to go through life pretending they believe something they know is not true and drive themselves further and further away from God? Or maybe that's just the way they've come to interpret the world. I like you, Rebecca, and I think you are trying. But try to take a step back and realize that not all atheists believe what they believe because something horrifying happened to them. I don't assume that about Christians, and I think y'all are quite welcome to believe whatever you want about the universe as long as it isn't hurting anyone. I also don't assume that you believe what you believe because you are evil/stupid/traumatized. Is this directed to atheists? If not, I'd like to point out that you do not have the right to treat anyone "disrespectfully or unkindly," and I don't care if they worship Big Bird. Also, let's not assume that atheists "do not take themselves seriously." I know many who would beg to differ. Personally, I am agnostic, and if anyone accused me of not taking my beliefs seriously, I would be heavily offended. I think you need to do a little bit more research, and maybe have some conversations with (gasp!) real, live atheists. I mean conversations where you are seeking to LEARN, not ones in which you attempt to convert them from their "sins." As in, go up to somebody you trust enough to have such a conversation and say, "Hey, I'm curious--would you mind explaining to me why you're an atheist?" Or maybe even, "Here's how I see things... how do you see them?" People fear what they do not understand. Understanding is the first step to eliminating misconceptions like these. I had to do this myself a few years back when I was (irrationally) angry at Christianity as a whole because of my past, and it has definitely served me well. I'm not saying you need to let them "convince" you. Merlin knows that I didn't get "convinced." But I did learn. And understand. And, eventually, accept. That's helped me move on from the people who hurt me, recognize that I had a biased sample of Christianity, and treat others with the respect they deserve. Well said, valentine. Rebecca, I like you too, which is why this post of yours saddened me a little. I agree with valentine that the best way to learn about atheism isn't to talk about it with non-atheists--it's to LEARN from atheists. Would you ask apples (extreme Christians) about bananas (atheists)? Hmm, this could be an episode of veggie tales.... So many people on this board want to be like Jesus, but they forget that Jesus was friends with people who WEREN'T like him. Trust me, they won't challenge you beliefs if you are secure in your faith. They aren't contagious. And most atheists are nice people. ^^
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 10:45:50 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 10:45:50 GMT -5
I don't understand Christians. They condemn people based on some ancient book, written when people would believe all sorts of babble. They hurt, attack, kill, maim, and destroy all against their god. Why do they do that? And they call atheists condemned?
In any case, my god, the great Toilet seat, has written his book, that all those who don't accept him as the savior are condemned.
Tarry not with those who would believe me non-existant, for they are corrupt for not accepting me into their assholes. Feces 2:4
My book says it, so it must be right! Furthermore, my book says this:
Feces, the abomination of my goodness, is evil. Christians are full of this evil. Condemn thee Christians to ever flushing waters of oblivion, for they shall not see paradise. Piss 7:7
As you can see, that verse is extra holy, because Piss is the 7th book in the holy book, and that is the 7th chapter of that book. Furthermore that is the 7th verse of the book! This message is very clear, that all christians are condemned.
I would seriously suggest accepting the Great Toilet Seat into your assholes right now, and repenting before suffering the ever-flushing waters of oblivion. </satire>
Rebecca your ignorance disgusts me. That was one of the most ill-informed and terribly based arguments I've ever seen. Furthermore, Bible thumper some-what agrees with you, making this situation all the worse >.>. You don't know atheists, yet you use your holy book to condemn us all, calling us corrupt and unworthy to walk this planet. Who the beep are you to judge us? Doesn't your book tell you not to judge? Why do you pick and choose the pieces of the bible you like? Isn't this an all or nothing boat? Why is it you follow some rules, that you find nice, but ignore others, like do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Did you like me calling you condemned? Frickin A, I condemned you based on some book you couldn't care two shits for.
I'm so sorry you see atheists that way. I certainly do hope that you never meet an atheist in real life though, because the same mentality you have right now caused millions to die in the past. Not just atheists, but Jews, Muslims, everyone. Everyone not christian died becase of your mentality. For the sake of the "scum of the earth", I hope you never see anyone other than a christian.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:12:12 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 11:12:12 GMT -5
Come on man, we had this conversation off the board. It's just as wrong for you to lump all Christians in with the people who did the things that you described as it would be for me to lump you in with a convicted child molestor who said that he is a atheist. I wouldn't do that to you, you shouldn't do that to us....fair?
We can't judge you. It's not our job to judge you. The Bible clearly says that we are not to judge the unbeliever. What we are commanded to do is to communicate with you andensure that you understand that you will be judged by God, found guilty, and sentanced to eternity in Hell. It is ALSO our job to ensure that you understand that though you are deserving of Hell (just as I am) that you don't have to go. I understand that these are the claims of the Bible, and I understand that you don't believe it. Just wanted to address the judging issue here.
I also know that there are some pretty varying opinions on the best way to communicate these things to you. For example MessangerMicah and I (as does Rebecca)would likely disagree on the best way to do so, but do realize that both of us are doing it because we care about your soul. The fact that you disagree shouldn't skew the reality that it is done out of compassion. Honestly, I do think there are a few people here who do get their kicks out of the confronation that goes with evangelism. I would submit to you though, that the vast majority of us would much rather be doing something else. We do it because we love you, and because God doesn't want you to go to Hell either. If you won't believe the claims, at least believe the motive. Rebecca's post was sincere, caring, and she used the knowledge that she had avaliable when she posted it. I don't agree with a lot of what she said, but I love her for being willing to put herself on the firing line with you guys. From a human standpoint......did she really deserve the response that you gave her? You are better than that man.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:18:24 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 11:18:24 GMT -5
I know, that was satirically doing the same thing she was doing. I don't personally mean a thing in the first half, up to the </satire> tag.
Imagine if I personally believed everything I said up there in the first half of my post.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:22:28 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 11:22:28 GMT -5
and since you don't....lets keep it respectful to each other. Believe me, this goes for both sides of the fence. Not just picking on the non-Christians
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:24:46 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 11:24:46 GMT -5
What if I said that about you? Wouldn't it bug you?
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:26:18 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 11:26:18 GMT -5
Fair enough. I'll respect your beliefs, but only to the extent you respect mine. Tony, you have always shown that respect, and I will show the same back to you =D.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:27:26 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 11:27:26 GMT -5
So, because I'm atheist, I'm a criminal. Thanks rebecca. By the way, after I play some CS, I'll pick apart your argument piece by piece.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 11:35:50 GMT -5
Post by rebecca01 on Jun 2, 2006 11:35:50 GMT -5
biblethumper,
I totally agree with you that we are all born corrupt and that is why our works "are" or "were" abominable. What I was trying to say is what form of corruption would cause someone to say there is no God? Maybe it doesn't matter. Im just trying to reach people where they are at, I'm not quite sure how you do that in this case but through prayer. How do you have a conversation about why an atheist believes the way the do aside from speghetti gods? It's very sad. I do know that if I am just making ABB mad at me than I guess it's not helping any so I will just be on my way and accept the fact he believes what he does for whatever reason I don't know.
valentine and shangxin,
If you have read any of my posts to ABB you will see that I have tried to understand why he believes the way he does. All I have heard about is either the speghetti god, the toilet seat god or the god of FSM. Also when I said that I do not believe that atheist take themselves seriously it is because I believe that what the scriptures say is true that "the fool says in his heart that there is no God..." Of course their is a God another words.If I were to say that it is not obvious that there is a God I would be lying. You wouldn't want me to come on here and lie would you?
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:37:19 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 12:37:19 GMT -5
What if I said that about you? Wouldn't it bug you? You betcha, and lets be honest. You have said some pretty....shall we say...unflattering things about Christians, but I forgive you and am hoping that we ALL can start a respectful dialog with each other. Different worldviews give no license to hatefulness or disrespect on EITHER side.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:42:03 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 12:42:03 GMT -5
I heartfully agree. Now, to pick apart the argument.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:44:33 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 12:44:33 GMT -5
Here we go again...... Just kidding, Pick away
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:47:00 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 12:47:00 GMT -5
Please tell me that is not the abbreviation of some horrible game called "Christian Sniper" not to give you any ideas
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:58:18 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 12:58:18 GMT -5
An atheist is someone who does not profess belief in the supernatural. That means, I am an atheist. That means that your belief that there are no atheists is ill-founded and wrong, because atheists actually make up a large minority of the population.
How can you use a book about god to prove there is a god?
So, because I am atheist, I have been deemed a criminal. Great.
My close family members (mom & dad) are hindu. My brother is a christian, albeit not a very strong christian. I am an atheist. My friends are agnostic or deist, although the majority of my friends are christian. I influenced myself, noone made me become an atheist. I was shown the two sides of religion. I was shown how different people believe different things. I interpolated that they can't both be right. I realized that they can both be wrong.
Faith is soooo much easier than evidence. Quick answers? The bible is full of it. Science has the long, lengthy answers that fulfills my mind. I'm not bitter towards god, because I don't believe in a god. I'm bitter towards the system of religion.
Millions were hurt by the christians. I don't deem the actions of a christian to represent christianity as a whole. I do think the mentality of christianity influenced those actions though.
Likewise, you should not think all muslims are terrorists, because a few bombed our buildings. You ask that not done to you, but you generalize to muslims all the time.
I know there is no god. I am not pretending to believe anything. That is insulting to any atheist. What if I said that you are pretending to believe in Jesus, so you won't get closer to the great toilet seat? Where would that take you?
Ask me something, I will answer. Your answer to everything is "GODDIDIT". Why am I atheist? Occam's razor. Ill explain why I'm atheist to you in another thread.
That's satire. It may be funny to some, insulting to others, but it contains a powerful message. I implore you to look beneath the surface and find that message.
Noone has corrupted me. What if I said you were corrupted for believing in Jesus instead of my god, the holy toilet seat of nazareth? Based on our holy book, the sh' ite.
I take myself and my beliefs very seriously. That is insulting to me, and every other atheist out there. This is something that you should consider apologizing for.
You are clearly disrespecting every belief I hold dear on some rather large generalizations from a book only you christians deem holy.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 12:58:37 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 12:58:37 GMT -5
lmao!!! counter strike
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 13:21:41 GMT -5
Post by tonyholland on Jun 2, 2006 13:21:41 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in here. I know this is a conversation between you and Rebecca, but so I understand......You said that a atheist does not profess belief in the supernatural. Would that mean that a atheist knows that there is no God beyond a shadow of a doubt, or doesn't believe that there is a God? Just making sure I understand what exactly the belief is.
Thanks!!
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 14:12:17 GMT -5
Post by rebecca01 on Jun 2, 2006 14:12:17 GMT -5
I hear you mention alot how that millions were hurt by christians.I could be wrong but that's a red flag to me.I repeat COULD BE WRONG, before everyone gears up to attack me. Could it be that therein lies the problem? I repeat and I did say, "COULD IT BE." I do not believe that people just lean towards a particular belief by chance.
You say your going to explain to me why God does not exist and I assume you are going do this by using science.Has this ever been succesfully attempted before? Not by my recollection.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 14:52:15 GMT -5
Post by evanschaible on Jun 2, 2006 14:52:15 GMT -5
No, you are a criminal because you have broken the law of the Holy God of the universe. If you have ever lied, then you are a criminal against God. You have to stand before God for judgment whether you believe in Him or not. If you step out in front of a car, it doesnt matter if you believe in the car or not, that doesnt change reality. The car exists, and so does God. Creation proves there is a creator, just like a building proves there is a builder and a painting proves there is a painter. You are living in sin and God will punish sin wherever it is found. Judgment is without mercy! Unless you repent you will perish. Turn from your sin and trust in Jesus Christ. He died that you might go free.
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Atheist
Jun 2, 2006 17:55:55 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 2, 2006 17:55:55 GMT -5
Christianity is not the majority religion.
I'm going to explain to you why I THINK that god does not exist. I thought that's what you wanted to know.
I don't live in that country; I don't follow that law.
Will you please stop with that? It's gotten annoying.
Forgot to mention this: Millions were tortured into conversion by the church. Some were paid, some converted out of necessity (there was a french king).
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Atheist
Jun 3, 2006 11:57:44 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 3, 2006 11:57:44 GMT -5
christians are broken records...there is a deep scratch on their brain that somehow manifests deities. everything they say is the same as the next one. no testimony is different from the last.
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Atheist
Jun 4, 2006 23:36:28 GMT -5
Post by larryflint4prez on Jun 4, 2006 23:36:28 GMT -5
What makes a person an atheist? ... Maybe they are just discouraged with life and need quick answers Oh, the unbearable irony. Atheists need quick answers? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yes, we cannot face the intellectual rigor of your invisible man in the sky.
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Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 5, 2006 6:06:58 GMT -5
invisible "daddy" in the sky, larry. heh.
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Atheist
Jun 5, 2006 16:14:12 GMT -5
Post by evanschaible on Jun 5, 2006 16:14:12 GMT -5
It is funny, usually this exact thing is what proves what they are saying. But somehow, you are all so desperate to beleive whatever you can as to keep you sin you make it out to be a bad thing.
Like I said, THINKING PEOPLE take the exact same testimony from multitudes of people as credibility, How exactly do you twist that around to make it the opposite?
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Atheist
Jun 5, 2006 16:52:07 GMT -5
Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 5, 2006 16:52:07 GMT -5
They take that testimony on matters of court and science. Not religion =P. Religion is a different boat.
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Atheist
Jun 6, 2006 15:43:55 GMT -5
Post by HSTN2983 on Jun 6, 2006 15:43:55 GMT -5
i see testimony as unreliable, in all arenas in life, not just religion.
besides, religion is invisible. the reason its credible because its a personal experience that cannot be shared with anyone else. they always start out, "i was a sinner into drugs, fornication, and rock and roll." they are all the same, because the bible speaks to the same class of people: gullible fools.
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