Post by atheistbibleburner on Jun 5, 2006 19:19:21 GMT -5
1) The founding fathers of america were in favor of a secular nationm not one governed by any religion's laws.
Many Europeans (Spanish included) came to America to escape the religious persecution. Europeans came to America to flee from being prosecuted from other Europeans on the religion they chose to believe in, or not believe in. To this day people are prosecuted on the religion they choose to worship. Atheist are hated among Christians. Pagans are hated among Christians. It goes even so far as Wiccans being hated by Christians. I guess what America was
originally founded on has gone down the drain hasn't it?
So what was America really founded upon? Well to those of you who believe that America was founded upon Christian beliefs and rules you're wrong. In fact it was just the opposite. The founding fathers did not want to bring any religion into the US or the Constitution.
The founding fathers rejected a biblical model america in favor of a more secular one instead. The authors of the Constitution had first hand experience with a governments created and supported by God. To lead a successful country and government the fathers had to reject a biblical model. So they chose a system that was outside of the bible in English commonlaw and Enlightenment.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Man created governments, not God.
"We, the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union..."
This exact principal was the foundation of the Constitution. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Jesus, Christianity, or a "Supreme Being". There are those of you who are arguing this fact because of the date on the constitution and how it is worded. "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven." The word, “Lord” is used, but not used in a “God” type form. It was simply a dating method that is still used today (Though most of you might not know it). The term simply
conveys a written English form of the Latin, Anno Domini (AD), which means the year of our Lord (no, it does not mean After Death). This scripted form served as a common way of dating in the 1700s. The Constitution also uses many pagan words such as January (from the two-headed Roman god, Janus), and June (named after the Roman Goddess Juno). Can you imagine the ludicrous position of someone trying to argue for the justification of a pagan god based Constitution?The founding fathers did not leave God out of the Constitution because of forgetfulness, but instead was kept out to keep religion seperate from government.
Also make note that nowhere in the constitution does it say, "Freedom of Religion". It simply says, "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would
realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.
But Christians often point out the Declaration of Independance as proof that America was founded and built upon Christian laws because it mentions the word, "God". Little do people realize that the declaration of independance does not represent ANY LAW of the united states. It came before the constitution and before our lawful government. Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we are all born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."
Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of
pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
Common Law. Many christians believe that common law came from christian foundations therefore the
constitution derives from it. They often use quotes form the Supreme Court Justices to prove their point.
But Thomas Jefferson explained about the history of common law in a letter he had written to Thomas Cooper on February 10, 1814.
"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it."
". . . if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it. But none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
So if America wasn’t founded upon Christianity, or any other religion for the matter, then why do we seek a
president that is a christian? Why do we find it important to find someone to run our country who’s morals and rules are that of christianity when the founding fathers themselves didn’t want that? Will being christian save us from going to war? Will it allow the UN to accept us and everyone get along with us? No. All wars in the history of man kind have been over religious views. September 11th was over different views of religion. My God is better than yours and my God is right and yours is wrong.
America was intended to be a free country of choice. Where one could come and choose how they wanted to live, the religion they wanted, and the lifestyle they wanted. Yet we have Mr Christian Bush who is deeply opposed to same sex marriages because according to his christian upbringing and morale it’s just not right. Bush has stated that he will do everything in his power to make sure same sex marriages are not allowed. If america is free, and we have
freedom, then why aren’t we allowed to marry our loved ones, even if they are the same sex as us? Why is it that Christianity is brought into play to say it shouldn’t be allowed? From what the first amendment says I’d say that
president Bush is going against what this country means, and what it stands for. America is not a free country. It is a Christian Communist country that pushes christianity. If you’re not a christian then you are shunned and looked down upon because you do not have the same beliefs as the rest of the country.
Isn’t it religion, specifically christians, who state that we should love each other even if they are non christians? If this is the case then many christians in the united states alone are hypocrites. We all originally came to this country to escape the critism of others because of the religion you choose to worship, only to have it blow up in our face. Yet we have done nothing to stand against it or stand up for what we believe in. We have accepted this as a normal part of life.
We should go back to the original ideas of this country. Leave the government and religion seperate. Let us not be critisized because we are not christian, or because we want to marry someone of the same sex. Let us accept one another for what we are, an American.
Send any comments to David@roninartwork.com, thank you.
originally founded on has gone down the drain hasn't it?
So what was America really founded upon? Well to those of you who believe that America was founded upon Christian beliefs and rules you're wrong. In fact it was just the opposite. The founding fathers did not want to bring any religion into the US or the Constitution.
The founding fathers rejected a biblical model america in favor of a more secular one instead. The authors of the Constitution had first hand experience with a governments created and supported by God. To lead a successful country and government the fathers had to reject a biblical model. So they chose a system that was outside of the bible in English commonlaw and Enlightenment.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Man created governments, not God.
"We, the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union..."
This exact principal was the foundation of the Constitution. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Jesus, Christianity, or a "Supreme Being". There are those of you who are arguing this fact because of the date on the constitution and how it is worded. "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven." The word, “Lord” is used, but not used in a “God” type form. It was simply a dating method that is still used today (Though most of you might not know it). The term simply
conveys a written English form of the Latin, Anno Domini (AD), which means the year of our Lord (no, it does not mean After Death). This scripted form served as a common way of dating in the 1700s. The Constitution also uses many pagan words such as January (from the two-headed Roman god, Janus), and June (named after the Roman Goddess Juno). Can you imagine the ludicrous position of someone trying to argue for the justification of a pagan god based Constitution?The founding fathers did not leave God out of the Constitution because of forgetfulness, but instead was kept out to keep religion seperate from government.
Also make note that nowhere in the constitution does it say, "Freedom of Religion". It simply says, "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would
realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.
But Christians often point out the Declaration of Independance as proof that America was founded and built upon Christian laws because it mentions the word, "God". Little do people realize that the declaration of independance does not represent ANY LAW of the united states. It came before the constitution and before our lawful government. Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we are all born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."
Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of
pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
Common Law. Many christians believe that common law came from christian foundations therefore the
constitution derives from it. They often use quotes form the Supreme Court Justices to prove their point.
But Thomas Jefferson explained about the history of common law in a letter he had written to Thomas Cooper on February 10, 1814.
"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it."
". . . if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it. But none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
So if America wasn’t founded upon Christianity, or any other religion for the matter, then why do we seek a
president that is a christian? Why do we find it important to find someone to run our country who’s morals and rules are that of christianity when the founding fathers themselves didn’t want that? Will being christian save us from going to war? Will it allow the UN to accept us and everyone get along with us? No. All wars in the history of man kind have been over religious views. September 11th was over different views of religion. My God is better than yours and my God is right and yours is wrong.
America was intended to be a free country of choice. Where one could come and choose how they wanted to live, the religion they wanted, and the lifestyle they wanted. Yet we have Mr Christian Bush who is deeply opposed to same sex marriages because according to his christian upbringing and morale it’s just not right. Bush has stated that he will do everything in his power to make sure same sex marriages are not allowed. If america is free, and we have
freedom, then why aren’t we allowed to marry our loved ones, even if they are the same sex as us? Why is it that Christianity is brought into play to say it shouldn’t be allowed? From what the first amendment says I’d say that
president Bush is going against what this country means, and what it stands for. America is not a free country. It is a Christian Communist country that pushes christianity. If you’re not a christian then you are shunned and looked down upon because you do not have the same beliefs as the rest of the country.
Isn’t it religion, specifically christians, who state that we should love each other even if they are non christians? If this is the case then many christians in the united states alone are hypocrites. We all originally came to this country to escape the critism of others because of the religion you choose to worship, only to have it blow up in our face. Yet we have done nothing to stand against it or stand up for what we believe in. We have accepted this as a normal part of life.
We should go back to the original ideas of this country. Leave the government and religion seperate. Let us not be critisized because we are not christian, or because we want to marry someone of the same sex. Let us accept one another for what we are, an American.
Send any comments to David@roninartwork.com, thank you.